Posted on 06/30/2007 4:02:33 PM PDT by Eric Blair 2084
The defeat of the amnesty bill is indeed a great day for America. The noble concept of a "Government by the people, for the people" has worked exactly the way our founding fathers intended. Our public serpents have heard the voice of their constituents and acted according to their wishes by defeating this train wreck of a bill.
In the absence of an actual intellectual argument, proponents of amnesty relied on the lowest common denominator of civil public discourse...when you have no facts to back you up, just call your opponent names like doodyhead, racist, bigot, redneck or nativist.
Apparently the elitist left wingers who were eager for new Democratic voters and the elitist Wall Street Journal right wingers who were frothing at the mouth at the idea of a cheap labor pool were shocked. They were used to having their way while the unwashed masses were busy paying attention to Paris Hilton, American Idol or Anna Nicole Smith.
Americans told them in no uncertain terms: We are not stupid. We are performing our civic duty by paying attention to our government. The message is so simple that even a retard can understand it...PROVE TO US THAT YOU CAN ENFORCE THE EXISTING LAWS BEFORE PASSING NEW LAWS THAT YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY ENFORCE.
They claimed that "we haven't read the bill and don't understand it. There are too many moving parts." No. We've read the bill. They haven't. Sure there were some good parts: ending chain migration, increasing the number of visas available for highly skilled employees.
This is certainly not over.
Speaking strictly for myself, I have nothing personally against people trying to come to America to better their lives. Besides the felony crime of breaking into a sovereign nation illegally, the only other "crime" many of these illegals have committed is mowing our lawn, landscaping our yard and picking our fruit. We don't hate anyone.
My parents were first generation LEGAL immigrants. Many of your parents, grandparents and great grandparents came here for the same reason.
We all understand that. What people like Bob Menendez and Mel Martinez don't understand is that when people came here at the turn of the last century there was no welfare state. Come one, come all. If you fail, don't look to the Gubmint to bail you out and provide social services at the taxpayers expense. We are in a different world.
So I am curious and our elected public serpents who were shocked by the outcry from their constituents are too. President Bush is a "lame duck" supposedly. He certainly won't accomplish any new legislative initiatives. However, he still has the power as President to see to it that existing laws are enforced. That means build the fence that was authorized and funded in October of 2006.
Then come back to us and talk about Comprehensive Immigration Reform. If the border were truly secure, would you be in favor of a similar bill?
I would not be in favor of amnesty.
Overnight we would add 12-20 million new workers to our job force. They would then NOT want to be the ones doing those secretive “jobs that no one wants.” They’d be in line for the jobs that every American wants.
They’d also realize that welfare pays more than the $4 an hour they were getting as workers. They’d also be able to bring Aunt Mabel from Madagascar into the country for “emergency” reasons.
At this point the jobs most affected by illegals are construction jobs, mechanic jobs, service jobs, transportation jobs, unskilled labor jobs, and jobs that have traditionally gone to our teens and college students.
Illegal aliens are a plot to injure the middle class by the aristocratic class. They are a plot to suppress wages.
But, no one cares for the lower and middle middle class. They really hope to rid us of it, so that we look more like a rich/poor nation.
I care about America. America has always stood for what is right. We reward those who do right and punish the lawbreakers. Now you say that because it’s more expedient we should start doing what is wrong.
I don’t agree.
That is not a very American way to think. It may be costly to business and the slave labor addicted businessmen may eventually have to pay money and spend time in jail until they learn to give up their addiction. It may even present a short term hit to our economy, but we must still follow what is right.
Contrary to you and all the others who think this is about race, I believe that refusing to stand up for what is right is what made the people in this country so angry. The idea that we could look the other way and reward people who break the law was just too much to take. It was more than we as a nation could hear without making ourselves heard.
What about the people who wait patiently in their own countries for years and pay thousands of dollars trying to get here? What do we say to them? Too bad, you weren’t shifty enough? You don’t reward lawbreaking or you get more lawbreaking. If you don’t believe me, think back to 1986 and look at what happened after that amnesty. Punish the lawbreakers and reward those who follow the rules.
Make the process easier for those applying here legally. Make it impossible for those who are here illegally and have been detected by govt. agencies to ever become legal. In other words, all those who have committed crimes or overstayed visas, will never become legal. If they have never been caught or committed any crimes in this country and they return home and apply to enter legally, they can return once they are given legal entry. But they must apply from their home country.
It is not about race, nationality or what ethnic group the illegals are from. Illegal is illegal. As a US citizen, I want to know that everyone we allow into this country can reasonably be expected to follow our laws. Those who regularly break our laws have proved by their actions that they cannot be trusted, and they should never be invited to stay here.
NO.
What are you trying to say? I’ve heard Duncan Hunter on with Levin yesterday and Hannity three times. I’ve read what other FReepers have posted and linked to.
He’s a great American. We need 434 more Duncan Hunters in the house.
It’s more like 30 million than the 12 they tell us . Everywhere you look they are there .
NO send them packing . Do like Ike did with ,’ Operation Wetback’ put them on boats and drop them off 500 miles deep into Mexico , they won’t be back anytime soon .
I use to feel sorry for them until they got in the streets and burned my flag upside down while my troops are at war .
“no”
Thank you.
I’m leaning toward Fred...What did Hunter know and when did he know it?
That's why the Dems stayed quiet. Let the right wing sort it out. They want the illegals to become voters but they don't want to piss off their constituents in the labor unions. They played this well. Lot's of focus groups and polling to tell them what to do.
Amnesty and Secure Borders is a Paradox. It is impossible.
Round them all up and deport all of them. No exceptions. If they aren’t here legally then they shouldn’t be here at all.
Be careful, remember Bush ? I voted for him twice the second time I thought he was lessor of two evils , lessor is still evil ,not that I think he was ‘lessor’ anymore .
Not no, but Hell No!!!!!!!
Local cops and rental security folks can harrass Americans smoking cigarettes in a bar and write tickets if necesary, that's why I always tell them that I am an illegal alien and have no ID when they try to give me a ticket for smoking in a bar. They hear that and they leave me alone. Seriously, it worked once. It was pretty funny. I guess you had to be there.
What about the people who wait patiently in their own countries for years and pay thousands of dollars trying to get here? What do we say to them? Too bad, you weren’t shifty enough?
Granted, I'm troubled by this aspect too of my proposal. My only response is that the process of *legal* immigration needs to be quicker and less expensive so fewer people feel the need to circumvent it - that would include people of all nations that do not sponsor terrorism.
I'm a law abiding guy even when I could probably get away with not following the law. But I simply don't think rounding up 12-20 million people and sending them across the border is politically feasible in today's environment. So, somewhere, a compromise has to be struck. That means acknowledging that some who got here broke the law but if they do what is demanded of them and they don't break more laws, they get to stay.
The truth of the matter is that if you get tough with illegals in the current climate, the race card is going to be played early and often. That's why building the fence across Canada first is essential, as is promoting both as an anti-terrorism matter, not anti-immigration. Your stand is one of principal, which I admire. My plan is one of practicality which has a chance to survive in the political climate we live in where laws (see Clinton, Bill) aren't held up to as a standard the way it used to be. I believe we need to get control of the borders now - to prevent a nuclear holocaust courtesy of the Muslims. If I can achieve that by letting a few illegal janitors and lettuce-pickers go free, I believe I'm accomplishing the greater good.
If the border were truly secure, we would be in no need of similar bills.
You’re right about the labor unions, but I don’t care a lot about the unions.
Some of our best conservative, patriotic Americans are laborers, construction workers, mechanics, etc. They work hard and see politicians for what they are, AND they turn around and vote CONSERVATIVE because of common sense and patriotism and conservative values.
If illegals were taking jobs from Hollywood, the ACLU, and the Cape Cod Country Club, I’d probably be all for it.
How about the provision in the bill that provides for a guest worker program? This way agricultural and packaging businesses can bring over temporary workers.
Then again, why don't they just move their entire plant to Jaurez, Mexico? Dims are still pretty pissed at Clinton for signing on to NAFTA.
I'm with you. No citizenship. No access to social safety net entitlement programs. They came here to work.
Question:
Would you be in favor of amnesty if the borders were truly secure?
Answer:
No, of course not.
That's like asking if you would be forgiving of the burglars who had already broken into your home, provided they locked the door behind them.
Well, would you?
The illegal invasion of America can be likened to a boat that has sprung a leak, with the water rushing in.
First, you plug the leak as best you can.
Then, you go about bilging out the water. Of course, you can't pump ALL the water out at once. But you start somewhere: one bucket at a time, or even one glassful at a time. Do this long enough, keep up your determination and strength, and eventually you'll heave most of that water out of the boat, too.
Once we have secured the borders, our next step is to begin the identification and disposition of all the illegals here, be it twelve million or twenty million.
Before you say "this can't be done" - wasn't one of the provisions of the Shamnesty bill that every illegal in-country would have his/her case reviewed and a z-visa issued? If they can review cases for that, they can identify and tag illegals for deportation.
We should also force before the U.S. Supreme Court the issue of "anchor babies". This, too, can be done.
And I believe that one absolute requirement is that we must pass legislation that declares that those who have entered America illegally must NEVER be permitted to become citizens, and must also be denied many of the benefits (economic and legal) that accrue to bona fide U.S. citizens. They must be made to wear the "mark of Cain" for the rest of their lives. And again, the ultimate price is that they must know that their children, too, can never become citizens.
This is the penalty that illegals must be made to bear, for breaking into our country and stealing from our culture. This doesn't mean they will all be deported. But there must be a "price to be paid" for border-jumping, as a warning to all.
If there is no penalty - if there is no price - then we are sending a message to the rest of the world that our nation, our heritage and our culture is theirs for the taking.
It should not be.
I'm willing to stomach the hardships illegals must face, so that perhaps they will consider returning to where they came from.
Are you?
- John
I don’t know if anyone pinged you to this but I think it would make a great FR poll.
That is really why I asked the question. My thinking is: show me/us that you can enforce the existing laws. Then come talk to us about the new laws.
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