Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

It's Wrong for the Right to be Rudyphobic
National Review Online ^ | October 12, 2007 | Deroy Murdock

Posted on 10/15/2007 4:29:47 AM PDT by StatenIsland

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 161-180181-200201-220221-236 next last
To: sitetest

I know, see #172.


181 posted on 10/15/2007 3:37:22 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 179 | View Replies]

To: William Terrell
Just to avoid the label "democrat" in favor of the label "republican" and ignore the actuality of liberalism?

Perfect explanation for what the Rooty Rooters are trying to do.

182 posted on 10/15/2007 3:39:14 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 177 | View Replies]

To: Man50D
If it comes to Hitlery or Rudy then there will be a socialist in the White House regardless of whether there is a an R or D after their names.

You seem to overlook what you yourself just said. The very fact that Hillary is a D and Rudy is a R means they must rely on different factions to support their own specific agendas. Rudy can't tick off social conservatives too much because he'll need their votes for his own proposals (whatever they may be). Hillary will essentially be able to do anything she wants with full support from a Democratic House and Senate.

183 posted on 10/15/2007 4:31:21 PM PDT by nosofar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: xzins
It means that I must choose between God and Rudy.

Any action you take has consequences. Pretending otherwise doesn't make it so.

184 posted on 10/15/2007 4:38:41 PM PDT by nosofar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: StatenIsland

Mayor Guido Ghouliani is nothing but a Clinton Democrat with an annoying accent. Man, I look forward to Kerick as head of the FBI, Ray Harding as our Secretary of State, and Harvey Fierstein as Secretary of the Posterior, er, interior.


185 posted on 10/15/2007 4:41:24 PM PDT by Clemenza (Rudy Giuliani, like Pesto and Seattle, belongs in the scrap heap of '90s Culture)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Copernicus
The lesser of two evils is still evil.

But it's not at evil as the greater evil...which is the whole point.

186 posted on 10/15/2007 4:42:22 PM PDT by nosofar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: ex-snook
NOTHING IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN LIFE

So, GO HILLARY GO !?

187 posted on 10/15/2007 4:53:45 PM PDT by nosofar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 67 | View Replies]

To: LowCountryJoe
If Rudy is strong on economic freedoms, says he prefers a limited government, and says he prefers social issues to be legislated at the state levels, and many SoCons do not like him for these views, I want a realignment!

What about those who oppose Rudy because he's a gun-grabber, or because they would expect him to allow/encourage the most left-leaning states to enforce their will on the rest of the country?

188 posted on 10/15/2007 4:56:57 PM PDT by supercat (Sony delenda est.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 77 | View Replies]

To: OKIEDOC
You might survive but will my children and grandchildren?

Considering at least two much younger clones of Ruth Bader Ginsburg would probably get onto the SCOTUS, possibly not.

189 posted on 10/15/2007 4:58:08 PM PDT by nosofar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 92 | View Replies]

To: mjolnir
Yes, Giuliani says he wants justices like Scalia and Thomas on the Supreme Court. But does he even understand what that means?

This doesn't matter anyway, he won't get anyone like this past a Democratic Senate (and neither would anyone else). I'll settle for anyone to the right of Kennedy.

190 posted on 10/15/2007 5:02:33 PM PDT by nosofar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 98 | View Replies]

To: bpop
So we held our noses and voted for him.

And the result is a President who is in favor of granting amnesty to illegal aliens despite the fact terrorists are posing as illegals to enter the country, ceding our national sovereignty to socialists/internationalists with the Law Of The Sea Treaty and ceding our Constitutional law to an internationalist court by fighting on the Hague's behalf to overturn the death sentence of an illegal alien who brutally murdered two teenage girls in the President's home state!.

Holding your nose and voting for a socialist is a cop out because it will only get you more socialism. We will get more of the same with Giuliani. I'm not about to align myself with such a defeatist thinking.
191 posted on 10/15/2007 5:07:28 PM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 169 | View Replies]

To: nosofar
The very fact that Hillary is a D and Rudy is a R means they must rely on different factions to support their own specific agendas. Rudy can't tick off social conservatives too much because he'll need their votes for his own proposals (whatever they may be). Hillary will essentially be able to do anything she wants with full support from a Democratic House and Senate.

From what I can tell, Rudy is targeting primarily crossover votes from Democrats and 'base' those who will vote for any candidate with an (R) next to their names. If he gets in, he'll be much more beholden to crossover Democrats than to conservative Republicans.

192 posted on 10/15/2007 5:09:36 PM PDT by supercat (Sony delenda est.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 183 | View Replies]

To: supercat
If he gets in, he'll be much more beholden to crossover Democrats than to conservative Republicans.

I was thinking more of votes in Congress.

This brings up another scenario I was considering. Rudy is nominated. A portion of Social conservatives refuse to vote for him in the general election. He gets elected anyway somehow with these crossover voters. He now has even less of an obligation toward soc cons than he would otherwise. The Republican Party shifts more leftward.

193 posted on 10/15/2007 5:17:02 PM PDT by nosofar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 192 | View Replies]

To: nosofar
The very fact that Hillary is a D and Rudy is a R means they must rely on different factions to support their own specific agendas.

The GOP has been appeasing the socialist Democrats for so many years for the sake of compromise they have abandon their conservative base and principles for socialism. The Republican party has aligned its ideology with the socialist Democrats. They are essentially one party.

Rudy can't tick off social conservatives too much because he'll need their votes for his own proposals (whatever they may be).

The term social Conservative is a farce. It also implies a person can be fiscally liberal(aka Socialistic) at the same time. The two ideologies are mutually exclusive because a person can't be for programs that are against big spending and limited government while supporting big expenditures to fund programs.

Hitlery has problems with her party because she is trying to be a centrist on the war in Iraq in order to deceive conservatives that she is one of them. That is causing dissension in the party. She and Giuliani are not locks.
194 posted on 10/15/2007 5:26:22 PM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 183 | View Replies]

To: nosofar
I was thinking more of votes in Congress.

A Republican Congress would be more able to oppose Hillary's actions than Rudy's.

He now has even less of an obligation toward soc cons than he would otherwise. The Republican Party shifts more leftward.

The Republican Party's leftward movement results from a belief that moving leftward won't cost votes. If half the population would vote for Stalin himself so long as he had an (R) next to his name, why shouldn't the GOP run Old Joe?

By contrast, if the GOP sees that they can run someone as far left as GWB while getting 35 percentage points from the GOP base, but moving left to Giuliani would drop that figure to 15 percentage points, then they would realize that there's a limit to how far left they could go before they started losing net votes.

195 posted on 10/15/2007 5:36:52 PM PDT by supercat (Sony delenda est.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 193 | View Replies]

To: supercat; All

Well, you fight like hell for your candidate in the primary. And, if a favored candidate isn’t there for the general election, you do one of two things: whine and leave the tent or suck it up and hold your friggen nose! Out of frustration of what I feel are narrow minded SoCons, I simply am entertaining the idea that maybe they should leave the tent so we can “get on with” the realignment. How does this sound?


196 posted on 10/15/2007 5:43:51 PM PDT by LowCountryJoe (I'm a Paleo-liberal: I believe in freedom; am socially independent and a borderline fiscal anarchist)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 188 | View Replies]

To: supercat; All

Well, you fight like hell for your candidate in the primary. And, if a favored candidate isn’t there for the general election, you do one of two things: whine and leave the tent or suck it up and hold your friggen nose! Out of frustration of what I feel are narrow minded SoCons, I simply am entertaining the idea that maybe they should leave the tent so we can “get on with” the realignment. How does this sound?


197 posted on 10/15/2007 5:45:53 PM PDT by LowCountryJoe (I'm a Paleo-liberal: I believe in freedom; am socially independent and a borderline fiscal anarchist)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 188 | View Replies]

To: supercat
... there's a limit to how far left they could go before they started losing net votes.

I can understand that. Assuming Rudy G. gets the nomination, I'm still inclined to get him in for four years for the SCOTUS nominations, then using 2012 to hand it over to the Dems. At that time, we might have someone less objectionable than Hillary. Also, Republicans may be in a better position in Congress by then. Hopefully, someone else will be nominated avoiding the issue altogether.

198 posted on 10/15/2007 6:08:21 PM PDT by nosofar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 195 | View Replies]

To: nosofar
But it's not at evil as the greater evil...which is the whole point.

With regret, I disagree.

Best regards,

199 posted on 10/15/2007 7:21:08 PM PDT by Copernicus (Mary Carpenter Speaks About Gun Control http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=7CCB40F421ED4819)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 186 | View Replies]

To: nosofar
Assuming Rudy G. gets the nomination, I'm still inclined to get him in for four years for the SCOTUS nominations, then using 2012 to hand it over to the Dems. At that time, we might have someone less objectionable than Hillary.

Suppose you're the Grand High Pooh-Bah of the GOP, and suppose further that your objective is to maximize your political power; conservatism is relevant to the extent, and only the extent, that preaching it will encourage certain people to give you power.

If conservative voters would give you just as much support for running a leftist as for running a conservative, what reason would you possibly have for running a conservative? Why not run a hard leftist, so that you could receive broad political support from both sides of the aisle?

Now imagine that you're the Democrat Grand Pooh-Bah; your interests are a little different. Your goal is to have leftist programs get implemented. Ideally you'd have your guys in charge, but you have enough hooks at all levels of government that things will work well for you if a liberal gets elected, whether or not your guys are officially in power.

If you know that the Republican leadership and voters are as I described above, is there any reason why your optimal strategy wouldn't be to run a hard leftist? If you run a moderate, your guy, a moderate, would win, but if you run a hard leftist, the Republicans will run a leftist and so the winning candidate, even though he's a Republican, would be to the left of anyone you could have won with yourself.

I assert that controlling aspects of the parties' leadership are essentially as I described. I further assert that if Republican voters will favor their guy no matter what, provided the alternative is sufficiently hideous, that the optimal strategies for both parties are as I described.

Do you disagree with either assertion?

I would further assert that if voter behavior favors that strategy by the two parties, the leftward slide of this country will accelerate exponentially, and that the country would be doomed with such sufficient certainty that no other strategy could be meaningfully worse (if your Chess opponent has you in a 'mate in three', you're no more lost if you offer the opponent an immediate mate than if you extend the game two more turns).

Given those axioms, I conclude that either (1) the optimal strategy for Republican voters must be something other than blind support of the Republican candidate, no matter what the alternative, or (2) if there is no better strategy than blind support of the Republican, this country is sufficiently thoroughly doomed that no strategy is meaningfully worse.

What is the flaw in my logic?

200 posted on 10/15/2007 7:47:55 PM PDT by supercat (Sony delenda est.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 198 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 161-180181-200201-220221-236 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson