Posted on 02/14/2008 3:00:49 AM PST by neverdem
Conservatism will be dead when you kill every last one of us... try it... if you think you can! I for one will not go quietly into that good night. I say bring it liberal!
LLS
Conservatism isn’t dead at all, only a “Gone Fishin’” sign in the window. Be back soon to a Party near you.
Liberty is what is dead. Conservatism lives...conservatism in its classical definition.
With many FReepers--and presidential candidates--advocating authoritarianist positions and slapping aside individual rights--all the while claiming to revere Ronald Reagan--the effect is a smearing of what Reagan stood for. My prediction is that over time, we'll find the true Reagan Legacy distorted, and most people thinking he believed in things for which he would have felt antipathy.
ping
Ping (sorry...meant to include you on the To line)
Yes, that was a very good and insightful post. And I would add that from what I've noticed, there doesn't seem to be as much of that healthy distrust for government that used to be one of the attributes of conservatives. Vigilance, that the founders warned us was the price of liberty, seems to have been replaced with cheerleading... while our civil liberties are being incrementally destroyed, by people supposedly on our own side. It reminds me of this quote that needs to be posted again:
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
- Benjamin Franklin
BTTT Great article!
I am 100% in agreement with thevabove.
That is a gross distortion of Pat's position. Pat is not a lassie fair capitalist, that is true. Neither were many of the founders. Neither were many great Republicans. Neither were many conservatives. The WSJ "free trade uber alles" crowd would like to demonize anyone that points out how poorly the current system of US Citizens forced subsidization of third world dictatorships via mechanisms like NAFTA is working.
It's a very tired refrain. I guess slavish adherence to a economic principle is what neo-cons believe is patriotism?
-—great article—you should repost it after everybody is awake—
Let me tell the story, I can tell it all
About the mountain boy who ran illegal alcohol
His daddy made the whiskey, son, he drove the load
When his engine roared, they called the highway Thunder Road.
Sometimes into Ashville, sometimes Memphis town
The revenoors chased him but they couldn’t run him down
Each time they thought they had him, his engine would explode
He’d go by like they were standin’ still on Thunder Road.
(CHORUS)
And there was thunder, thunder over Thunder Road
Thunder was his engine, and white lightning was his load
There was moonshine, moonshine to quench the Devil’s thirst
The law they swore they’d get him, but the Devil got him first.
On the first of April, nineteen fifty-four
A Federal man sent word he’d better make his run no more
He said two hundred agents were coverin’ the state
Whichever road he tried to take, they’d get him sure as fate.
Son, his Daddy told him, make this run your last
The tank is filled with hundred-proof, you’re all tuned up and gassed
Now, don’t take any chances, if you can’t get through
I’d rather have you back again than all that mountain dew.
(CHORUS)
Roarin’ out of Harlan, revvin’ up his mill
He shot the gap at Cumberland, and screamed by Maynordsville
With T-men on his taillights, roadblocks up ahead
The mountain boy took roads that even Angels feared to tred.
Blazing right through Knoxville, out on Kingston Pike,
Then right outside of Bearden, they made the fatal strike.
He left the road at 90; that’s all there is to say.
The devil got the moonshine and the mountain boy that day.
Right Heart: A morally serious look at government aid.
Filing Supports Second Amendment Rights If you're reading the briefs for Heller, check comment# 1.
This should make us all stop and think
Have Conservatives Failed America?
From time to time, I’ll ping on noteworthy articles about politics, foreign and military affairs. FReepmail me if you want on or off my list.
Like the rest of the libertarian fringe, free market fundamentalists put the principle above every other consideration. Free markets are a tool to increase wealth, help ensure individual freedom, and provide for the wants and needs of people. They are not, in and of themselves, an absolute good that transcends all others. As a principle it is important, but not ultimate. As a practice, we don't have anything close to free markets, and there is no political constituency to create truer, freer markets. Real free markets perhaps existed in the late 19th century. They were free of troublesome legislation and government regulation. They included 12 hour work days as routine, child labor was widespread, and famously workers locked into sweatshops burnt to death when buildings caught fire. But HEY! It was a real free market! Strangely "the sheeple" seem to have almost zero interest in going back to these conditions. Perhaps they recall the stuggles their grandfathers and grandmothers went through to win the regulations and containment of the free market that we have today. I don't know. I've never seen a poll conducted on it. Buisness owners have now taken to simply exporting entire factories as the obvoius end around to this. The "Free Market" fetishists insist this is good for everyone, but really WalMart products are not THAT cheap. There are obvious soluitions, such as tarrifs and immigration limitations that, yes, might result in some "protected" goods costing more. So? The alternative seems to be Brazilification of our economy. How can Americans compete with Chinese when to hire someone in the USA the company has to comply with: OSHA, EPA, OOEC, Labor Department and Misc. State and Local regulations, while paying for LTD insurance, workman's comp insurane, Social Security, Medicare, state taxes, local taxes. The Free Market Fetishists answer is we should do away with all these!! Brilliant - to compete with China we will turn into China!! I don't see jobs being wholesale exported to Sweden or Germany. Perhaps we can have free trade with our equals, that is other nations that have functioning post-industrial societies. We can not, and should not, insist that American workers compete with Chinese (who would be shot if they tried to organize a real labor union). Free Trade: means to an end. Tarrifs: another means to an end. Both are useful tools if used wisely and blunt instruments capable of causing great damage if used unwisely.
Like the rest of the libertarian fringe, free market fundamentalists put the principle above every other consideration. Free markets are a tool to increase wealth, help ensure individual freedom, and provide for the wants and needs of people. They are not, in and of themselves, an absolute good that transcends all others. As a principle it is important, but not ultimate.
As a practice, we don't have anything close to free markets, and there is no political constituency to create truer, freer markets. Real free markets perhaps existed in the late 19th century. They were free of troublesome legislation and government regulation. They included 12 hour work days as routine, child labor was widespread, and famously workers locked into sweatshops burnt to death when buildings caught fire. But HEY! It was a real free market!
Strangely "the sheeple" seem to have almost zero interest in going back to these conditions. Perhaps they recall the stuggles their grandfathers and grandmothers went through to win the regulations and containment of the free market that we have today. I don't know. I've never seen a poll conducted on it.
Buisness owners have now taken to simply exporting entire factories as the obvoius end around to this. The "Free Market" fetishists insist this is good for everyone, but really WalMart products are not THAT cheap.
There are obvious soluitions, such as tarrifs and immigration limitations that, yes, might result in some "protected" goods costing more. So? The alternative seems to be Brazilification of our economy.
How can Americans compete with Chinese when to hire someone in the USA the company has to comply with: OSHA, EPA, OOEC, Labor Department and Misc. State and Local regulations, while paying for LTD insurance, workman's comp insurane, Social Security, Medicare, state taxes, local taxes.
The Free Market Fetishists answer is we should do away with all these!! Brilliant - to compete with China we will turn into China!!
I don't see jobs being wholesale exported to Sweden or Germany. Perhaps we can have free trade with our equals, that is other nations that have functioning post-industrial societies. We can not, and should not, insist that American workers compete with Chinese (who would be shot if they tried to organize a real labor union).
Free Trade: means to an end. Tarrifs: another means to an end. Both are useful tools if used wisely and blunt instruments capable of causing great damage if used unwisely.
It is a tragedy and shows only that the elites of both parties are more concerned with esoteric principles, as you appear to be, than the real lives of Americans.
They are more than willing to sacrafice the standard of living in the USA to build up a middle class in India and China.
If you are a fat-cat mogel, whether you are the Lionsgate President jetting off to cut Uranium deals in Khazakastan with their dictator (accompanied by President Clinton), or Hillary Clinton sitting on the board of WalMart, or George W. and his many super-rich supporters it's of no account HOW markets grow, as long as they do.
If high wage, high added value jobs disapear from the USA, but you can sell iPODs in India, why do you care?
The elites of both parties have let us down. This is one reason I am so happy that, at least, Hillary is going down bigtime.
Where does 'winning an election' rank in your list of core principles? Why is it so difficult for you to understand that there is a line to be drawn sometimes and that 'principles' don't change to suit the political climate of the day? I pity folks that have nothing in the way of a solid base from which to conduct themselves. Then they have to nerve to denigrate others who do.
Apparently you don’t live up to your screen name, not being dumb after all. Congratulations!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.