Chief Justice Roberts – Keeper of America’s Future

Australia.to ^ | Zach Jones

[FreeAtlanta]

I am a retired (25) police officer and spent 26 years in the United States Air force as a MSGT in charge of Training for the 482 Security Police Squadron. Was in Vietnam and also served in the Gulf War. For the last year I have been watching this site on a daily basis not believing that Barack Hussein Obama has become our president. I coach a High School softball team and everyone of my players had to produce a birth certificate to be eligible to play through the state. I hate to say this, but we in a total crisis and something will happen if this man is allowed to continue to lead this once proud nation. I have never posted before but know many FBI, Secret Service Agents, CIA and many other Federal Agents who have told me they are not to discuss this issue about Obama or they will be terminated from employment. We all need to take a step back and pray that something will come out on all of these lawsuits. I spoke to the Supreme Court Justice in my state who advised that the US Supreme Court have been ordered to throw out any case that deal with the fraud President elect. May God Help us All (Emphasis added and typos corrected)

[Quix]

Naw.

I’d rather have exchanges with folks who post interesting plausible replies.

[mlo]

What was it you said to someone else?

"I gather your mind was made up before a long list of well researched facts surfaced!"

[Quix]

Actually,

BEFORE

is inaccurate.

I’m happy to give almost anyone the benefit of the doubt and at one time considered OTHUGA to be less evil than Shrillery.

I was probably wrong about the latter.

[Non-Sequitur]

As an American citizen, I DEMAND to know who ordered SCOTUS to throw out any Obama non-citizenship case and then have the situation investigated.

What if the answer is 'nobody'? What if they did it based solely on the merits, or lack there of, of the case?

[real_patriotic_american]

Lack of Merits? It’s boldly declared in the Constitution.

[real_patriotic_american]

Yes, I believe that the case against Obama’s non-citizenship will go somewhere.

[jamese777]

The only proof of native born citizen status that McCain, Obama, Bob Barr, Cynthia McKinney or any other candidate needs to show is an official document issued by a state which lists a place of birth and a date of birth. PERIOD.
Cite?

Obama has presented that.

Cite?

The only legitimate legal question is whether or not the documentation that he has presented is forged or fraudulent.

Cite?

[With all due respect, etc.]

---

Google “Hawaii Revised Statutes Section 338” and pay particular attention to Sections 338-18 and 338-19.

[jamese777]

IMHO, Chief Roberts is the stumbling-block on all of the BHO “natural born citizen” cases and won’t allow any of the cases to be heard. His photo giving BHO the oath of office will be printed in tens of millions of textbooks! Afterall, BHO is the first (partially) African (but mostly Arab) American President! That’s a great legacy for anyone to have and a supreme ergo bust for Roberts! Now contrast what his legacy would be if Roberts decided to hear any cases? Can you say Kenneth Starr?!?!

---

The way the Supreme Court operates to decide which cases it will take is via what is known as “the cert pool” and the “rule of four.” All the cases that are submitted to be heard by the Court are divided up equally among the law cleaks of seven of the justices (Justices Stevens and Alito have opted out of this process). The law clerks for each Justice read the cases and make recommendations to their Justice on whether the full Court should hear the case or not. Of course the Justice can overrule his clerk and advocate for a case but if a Justice thinks that a case should be heard, that Justice needs to get three other Justices to agree to hear the case (the rule of four). If four Justices agree to hear a case, that case is granted a Writ of Certiorari which is fancy legalese for o.k., we’ll hear your case.
Thus far none of the Obama eligibility cases have been denied by Justice Roberts because the luck of the draw haven’t sent any of these particular cases to his clerk in the cert pool.
For example, Berg v Obama has been denied under Justice Souter, Justice Kennedy and Justice Scalia. That means none of those Justices could get three others to agree to take on Berg’s eligibiliy suit against Obama.

[El Gato]

Is Obama applying for the Hawaiian Lands Program as an indigenous Native Hawaiian?

That is irrelevant. You made the statement that Hawaii only issued the short form certificate, I showed that they *will* issue the long form if requested. It just takes longer to get.

But the short form may not contain all the information to determine "Natural Born" citizenship, just as it does not contain sufficient information to prove sufficient native Hawaiian ancestry. The long form contains more information on the parents, such as their place of birth as one example. One thing that even the long form doesn't show (the early 60s version anyway) is parent's nationality/citizenship.

The fact that the state department won't accept the short from, *under some conditions*, also indicates that it contains insufficient information, for *some* purposes. While they will normally accept the Hawaiian short form, they do not accept those of a few states. For example they won't take California's because it shows the place of registration as the place of birth. Hawaii's is relatively easy to file for a non hospital birth. The long form would show whether the birth was "at home" or "at a hospital". Even in '61, given the socio economic position of the Dunhams, an "at home" birth would be very unusual, whereas in the 1920s it would not have been unusual at all in much of the country. AFAIK, both of my parents were "at home" births. The hospital I was born in had it's first birth just a few years before mine, even though it had been around for several decades at that time.

BHO's situation is quite unusual for someone his age. That is a birth to a foreign father. He is probably the first president to have a foreign citizen father since, well Chester Arthur, and he hid the fact, and was not elected as President, but rather as VP, (yes I know VP has to be eligible too, since the 12th amendment (1804), well before Arthur's time). But even Arthur's father had been permanent resident for some time before his birth and continued to live in the US afterwords. BHO Sr, was presumably on a student visa, and only lived in the US until he got his Master's degree, then it was back to Kenya and his other wives (one of which was another American woman who he met while at Harvard). Like Obama, Arthur took the oath of office twice.

All other Presidents, since Martin Van Buren, have had US Citizen fathers. (MVB was born under the Articles of Confederation in 1782, so he qualified both under "natural born" and "citizen of the US at the time of the adoption of this Constitution" as was Zachary Taylor (1784).

The only proof of native born citizen status that McCain, Obama, Bob Barr, Cynthia McKinney or any other candidate needs to show is an official document issued by a state which lists a place of birth and a date of birth. PERIOD. Obama has presented that. The only legitimate legal question is whether or not the documentation that he has presented is forged or fraudulent. A subpoena for the original document and a comparison to his document should clear that up rather quickly. I’m surprised that no such subpoena has ever been issued.

So am I, but since it hasn't, that why I made the statement that no one has actually checked on his eligibility.

However McCain could not present such a certificate, because he wasn't born in a US state. He does have a certificate, and his shows him to be the son of two American Citizens, which is probably enough to be considered a Natural Born Citizen. I say probably, because no court has directly addressed the criteria for being a Natural born citizen. This is not surprising, since the situation could only have come up with regards to Chester Arthur, had the fact that his father was not naturalized until after he was born been revealed before he became VP. There actualy was a document that would have revealed this, although it was not birth certificate, such did not exist in the modern sense in those days, but rather a naturalization certificate of his father, dated about 14 years after Chester's birth.

But it has come up in the case of Barack Hussein Obama, yet no court so far has seemed to want to touch the issue with a 10 meter pole.

[El Gato]

The “order” that I’m most interested in is a court ORDER from a judge, any judge, anywhere, that issues a subpoena for Barack Hussein Obama II’s original, long form, vault copy Certification of Live Birth from the Hawaii Department of Health.

The long form is the Certificate of Live Birth, or possibly the Certificate of Hawaiian Birth, or the Late Birth Cerficate. The short form, aka the abstract version (which is the most discriptive title) is the Certification of Live Birth. The Certification is not an "on file" document, it's generated upon request, is not a "copy" of anything, and contains only a subset of the information on the Long Form. It will likely become obsolete, as the images of the full Long Form versions are put into computer data bases, and will be able to be printed as easily as the abtract version now is.

[El Gato]

Which does not apply to Hawaii and Obama's certificate, does it?

That would depend on what information a court would need to determine "Natural Born Citizenship". Even the "long form" might not be sufficient for that. Unless it shows a birth outside the US.

[El Gato]

The image on the internet is intended for the public. It isn't being used in an official capacity. There is no reason to assume the photographs are altered.

Actualy there is, but let that go for now.

No birth record or abstract thereof has been presented for the official purposes of determining eligibility to the office of President. That is *one* of the issues. The other being his birth to foreign national, not even a permanent resident alien. No court has examined either issue, AFAIK.

[jamese777]

The long form is the Certificate of Live Birth, or possibly the Certificate of Hawaiian Birth, or the Late Birth Cerficate. The short form, aka the abstract version (which is the most discriptive title) is the Certification of Live Birth. The Certification is not an “on file” document, it’s generated upon request, is not a “copy” of anything, and contains only a subset of the information on the Long Form. It will likely become obsolete, as the images of the full Long Form versions are put into computer data bases, and will be able to be printed as easily as the abtract version now is.
—
Yes, that is correct. On the short form COLB it states: “I certify this a true copy or abstract of the record on file in the Hawaii State Department Of Health.” Alvin T. Onaka, Ph.D. State Registrar
The only relevant information on either the long or short version is date of birth and the place of birth. The only relevant legal issue is whether the document is authentic and unaltered or a forgery.

[El Gato]

The only relevant information on either the long or short version is date of birth and the place of birth. The only relevant legal issue is whether the document is authentic and unaltered or a forgery.

So say you. Others maintain that there is more to Natural Born Citizenship than being born in the US.

But that said, since The One has freely admitted he was a British subject at birth, as well as perhaps an American Citizen, why not provide access to either form and be done with at least that part of the issue? That can be done by providing a letter to the Hawaii Department of Health, or to anyone wishing to obtain the document, authorizing access. That sort of "third party" access is allowed under Hawaii law. That way the certified document would be provided directly to those wishing to view it, without going through anyone else's hands, thus preventing even the appearance of any impropriety. Since the issue of his dual nationality at birth is "in the open" nothing tending to show that would be a problem for him... or would it? It would be official then, rather than something in a book *he* ostensibly wrote. I mean, how do even the Kenyan Obamas know that Barack Hussein Obama, born in Kenya and raised by "Grandma Sarah" really was his father? He certainly doesn't look much like BHO Sr. He looks like his maternal grandfather, with a darker completion and eyes wavy hair, and slightly broader nose and fuller lips, but not much of any of those other than the complexion. (Grandpa Dunham was a real paleface, even after living in Hawaii for years.)

[jamese777]

The only pertinent information to establish native born citizen status is one’s place of birth within the United States of America.
Mexican-American anchor babies whose parents are Mexican nationals and in the US illegally are natural born US citizens if they are born on this side of the border.
If Barack Obama was born on Waikiki Beach and delivered by a midwife, he’s a Natural Born Citizen.
Under the US Code, the only children born in the US who aren’t Natural Born Citizens are the children of foreign ambassadors and foreign embassy staff.
Title 8/Section 1401 of the US Code defines “Nationals and Citizens of the United States at birth.”
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/1401.html

[nominal]

“and subject to the jurisdiction thereof” does not include people here illegally. Jurisdiction is not just about geography.

[Peter Libra]

The rumors of Hitlers' Jewish ancestry were unsubstantiated as far as I know. But, yeah he was born in Austria-Hungary.....

Hopefully I will be forgiven for digressing here. The second most interesting quest in genealogy for me, beside Howard Hughes was Adolf Hitler. Briefly, Hans Frank (executed for war crimes) was commissioned by Hitler to check on any Jewish ancestry. It did not exist.

The secret was taken to the grave by a poor peasant woman, of Hitler's paternal grandfather. She was Maria Schicklgruber. Her son, Alois Schicklgruber was Hitler's father. At the age of about 30 years, he had a forged birth certificate, to give him the name of Alois Hitler. Father named Heidler. The clerk transcribed it wrongly, but closely. Now he was legitimate person, not illegitimate as described in parish records in 1837.

I would say that the history of the woodland area (Waldviertel) where Hitler was born, was crossed and recrossed by various armies. The peasant people had no defence, just survived. My guess is that Hitler had the blood of at least three different races in his veins.

Oh oh, I said forged birth certificate, the plot thickens.

[jamese777]

““and subject to the jurisdiction thereof” does not include people here illegally. Jurisdiction is not just about geography.”

---

From the landmark US Supreme Court decision in the case of United States v Wong Kim Ark, 169 US. 649 of 1898: “The fourteenth amendment affirms the ancient and fundamental rule of citizenship by birth within the territory, in the allegiance and under the protection of the country, including all children here born of resident aliens, with the exceptions or qualifications (as old as the rule itself) of children of foreign sovereigns or their ministers, or born on foreign public ships, or of enemies within and during a hostile occupation of part of our territory, and with the single additional exception of children of members of Indian tribes owing direct allegiance to their several tribes. The amendment, in clear words and in manifest intent, includes the children born within the territory of the United States of all other persons, of whatever race or color, domiciled within the United States.”

[SteveH]

Obama has presented that

To whom, exactly? When, exactly? Under what rule(s) or law(s), exactly? Does it or does it not constitute "best evidence"? Who is Obama's Jr listed father, and what is his citizenry to document that Obama Jr is indeed a natural born citizen under then current law? Has Obama filed an affidavit with a court under penalty of perjury in either state or federal jurisdiction that he never relinquished the US citizenship you presume? If so, where? And if so, how did he attend Indonesian public school (documented historical fact) and how did he travel to Pakistan in 1980-1981 (documented historical fact) when Pakistan was on the list of countries that US citizens were banned from visiting?

The only legitimate legal question is whether or not the documentation that he has presented is forged or fraudulent.

See above for points that call into question his current citizenship status.

Google “Hawaii Revised Statutes Section 338” and pay particular attention to Sections 338-18 and 338-19.

Ahem, your point being... what, exactly? (And... why drag Google as a third party into a any legal argument??)

If it is that the US voting public has no tangible or direct interest in viewing Obama/Sotero's birth certificate, I respectfully disagree.

Why wait (for example) until a crisis with order of magnitude equivalent to the Cuban missile crisis to find out whether the military chain of command agrees with you? Or (for that matter) some low level (read: unelected) Hawaiian government PR flack?

Is that a risk the consequences of which you (jamese777) would be willing to underwrite??

At last glance, barackobama.com has up to date links to:

facebook

myspace

youtube

flickr

digg

twitter

eventful

linkedln

blackplanet

faithbase

eons

glee

migente

mybatanga

asianave

DNC partybuilder

Now... with all that wonderful effort, under what logic does Obama/Sotero withhold his birth certificate?? Contrast the remarkable amount of information provided with the absence of candor regarding a fundamental qualification that Obama needs in order to be qualified to serve the public as president under the US Constitution. Who is blowing smoke??

[jamese777]

You’re right, there’s no need to go through any search engine to get to the Hawaii statutes on the confidentiality and legal process for the release of vital records. I’m sure that you can get there on your own. Once again, the cite that you asked for is HRS 338-18, 19.

Who a person’s father is; what hospital they were born in; and what schools they attended are completely and totally irrelevant to whether or not they were born in the United States of America.

Whose job do you think it is to determine whose credentials are acceptable as a natural born citizen in order to become President of the United States?

If anybody wants to view Obama’s original birth certificate, get a subpoena for that document from a judge.

The burden of proof is no longer on Obama beyond qualifying to be on the ballot in 50 states and the District of Columbia.

There was an additional opportunity for any two (one Representative and one Senator were required) of 535 members of Congress to object to Vice President Cheney’s Certification of the Electoral College vote during the joint session of Congress held on January 8th to count the Electoral College votes. No Senator and no Representative objected to the official certification of the Election.
There is no legislative or judicial authority in the United States that has the power to overturn the electoral will of 69,456,897 voters and 365 Electors.
At this point in time and for the next four years, impeachment is the constitutional vehicle to remove Obama from office.