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Mexican drug violence spills over into the US
news.yahoo.com ^ | 02/09/09 | ALICIA A. CALDWELL

Posted on 02/09/2009 5:54:00 PM PST by shielagolden

Mexican drug violence spills over into the US

U.S. authorities are reporting a spike in killings, kidnappings and home invasions connected to Mexico's murderous cartels. And to some policymakers' surprise, much of the violence is happening not in towns along the border, where it was assumed the bloodshed would spread, but a considerable distance away, in places such as Phoenix and Atlanta.

Investigators fear the violence could erupt elsewhere around the country because the Mexican cartels are believed to have set up drug-dealing operations all over the U.S., in such far-flung places as Anchorage, Alaska; Boston; and Sioux Falls, S.D.

"The violence follows the drugs," said David Cuthbertson, agent in charge of the FBI's office in the border city of El Paso, Texas.

The violence takes many forms: Drug customers who owe money are kidnapped until they pay up. Cartel employees who don't deliver the goods or turn over the profits are disciplined through beatings, kidnappings or worse. And drug smugglers kidnap illegal immigrants in clashes with human smugglers over the use of secret routes from Mexico.

So far, the violence is nowhere near as grisly as the mayhem in Mexico, which has witnessed beheadings, assassinations of police officers and soldiers, and mass killings in which the bodies were arranged to send a message. But law enforcement officials worry the violence on this side could escalate.

"They are capable of doing about anything," said Rusty Payne, a Drug Enforcement Administration spokesman in Washington. "When you are willing to chop heads off, put them in an ice chest and drop them off at a police precinct, or roll a head into a disco, put beheadings on YouTube as a warning," very little is off limits.

In an apartment near Birmingham, Ala., police found five men with their throats slit in August. They had apparently been tortured with electric shocks before being killed in a murder-for-hire orchestrated by a Mexican drug organization over a drug debt of about $400,000.

In Phoenix, 150 miles north of the Mexican border, police have reported a sharp increase in kidnappings and home invasions, with about 350 each year for the last two years, and say the majority were committed at the behest of the Mexican drug gangs.

In June, heavily armed men stormed a Phoenix house and fired randomly, killing one person. Police believe it was the work of Mexican drug organizations.

Authorities in Atlanta are also seeing an increase in drug-related kidnappings tied to Mexican cartels. Estimates of how many such crimes are being committed are hard to come by because many victims are connected to the cartels and unwilling to go to the police, said Rodney G. Benson, DEA agent in charge in Atlanta.

Agents said they have rarely seen such brutality in the U.S. since the "Miami Vice" years of the 1980s, when Colombian cartels had the corner on the cocaine market in Florida.

Last summer, Atlanta-area police found a Dominican man who had been beaten, bound, gagged and chained to a wall in a quiet, middle-class neighborhood in Lilburn, Ga. The 31-year-old Rhode Island resident owed $300,000 to Mexico's Gulf Cartel, Benson said. The Gulf Cartel, based in Matamoros just south of the Texas border, is one of the most ruthless of the Mexican organizations that deal drugs such as cocaine, marijuana, methamphetamine and heroin.

"He was shackled to a wall and one suspect had an AK-47. The guy was in bad shape," Benson said. "I have no doubt in my mind if that ransom wasn't paid, he was going to be killed."

In July, Atlanta-area police shot and killed a suspected kidnapper while he was trying to pick up a $2 million ransom owed to his cartel bosses, Benson said.

State and federal governments have sent millions of dollars to local law enforcement along the Mexican border to help fend off spillover drug crime. But investigators believe Arizona and Atlanta are seeing the worst of the violence because they are major drug distribution hubs thanks to their webs of interstate highways.

In fact, drug officials have dubbed Atlanta "the new Southwest border," said Jack Killorin, a former federal drug agent and director of the Atlanta region's High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area task force.

El Paso, population 600,000, is only a quarter-mile away from Mexico's Ciudad Juarez, which has seen open gun battles and 1,700 murders in the last year. But El Paso remains one of America's safest cities, something Cuthbertson said is probably a result of the huge law enforcement presence in town, including thousands of Border Patrol and customs agents.

In the past year, more than 5,000 people have been killed across Mexico in a power struggle among Mexico's drug cartels and ferocious fighting between them and the Mexican government. The cartels have established operations in at least 230 U.S. cities, according to the Justice Department's National Drug Intelligence Center.

Payne said the U.S. and Mexico are working together to pressure the warring cartels. Payne cited the extradition of high-level drug suspects — four members of the Arellano Felix cartel in Tijuana were brought to the U.S. in December — and the capture or killings of several other top cartel leaders across Mexico in the past year.

"We have to make sure that we attack these criminal organizations at every level so that we are safer not only in Mexico and on the Southwest border, but here in the rest of the country," Payne said.

While some Americans may feel victimized by the spillover of violence, others are contributing to it. Americans provide 95 percent of the weapons used by the cartel, according to U.S. authorities. And Americans are the cartels' best customers, sending an estimated $28.5 billion in drug-sale proceeds across the Mexico border each year.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; US: Georgia
KEYWORDS: aliens; americans; armedcitizen; banglist; buildthefence; buildthefencejerks; ccw; drug; drugwarconsequences; gulfcartel; libertarians; mexican; mexicanmafia; rkba; wod

1 posted on 02/09/2009 5:54:01 PM PST by shielagolden
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To: shielagolden

Anchorage AK huh, something tells me it’s not going to take long for a certain Govenor to clean things up a bit.


2 posted on 02/09/2009 5:55:27 PM PST by mrmargaritaville
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To: shielagolden

And it’s going to get worse.


3 posted on 02/09/2009 5:55:47 PM PST by FlingWingFlyer ("Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry." - Bruce Banner)
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: shielagolden

It’s a simple marketing issue. They have to protect their markets.

Never go to the city unarmed, you just never know anymore.


5 posted on 02/09/2009 5:58:55 PM PST by Tarpon (If you don't stand on principle, you stand for nothing at all.)
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To: shielagolden

Meanwhile schools in my Michigan county want more money for bilingual teachers because of a 16% spike in the number of non english speaking students in the last few years.


6 posted on 02/09/2009 6:02:20 PM PST by cripplecreek (The poor bastards have us surrounded.)
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To: shielagolden

3rd post..
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2181856/posts


7 posted on 02/09/2009 6:04:36 PM PST by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: shielagolden

Money for border enforcement is being reduced and the 800 mile fence promised by Washington is now to be 200 miles........maybe. It’s time for the wise to prepare for life in the USSA.


8 posted on 02/09/2009 6:06:39 PM PST by Dapper 26
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To: shielagolden

Does The One have a position on the legalization of drugs? I’m amazed that the drug problem never was raised during the campaigns. That tells you how powerful the drug traffickers are—that they can keep the issue out of the “debate.”


9 posted on 02/09/2009 6:11:33 PM PST by Misterioso (Obama was elected not in spite of his color but because of it.)
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To: shielagolden

“Mexican organizations that deal drugs such as cocaine, marijuana, methamphetamine and heroin”

That’s what i wanted to know- looks like they have the spectrum of drugs covered. It’s not just pot.


10 posted on 02/09/2009 6:13:01 PM PST by Canedawg ( I object to taxation without proper representation.)
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To: shielagolden
Spectacular...and I leave tomorrow to go visit a new customer in Matamoros...I've been to Mexico many times, Aguascalientes is actually really nice, Monterrey's OK, but the border towns are bad. Juarez is bad, I haven't been there for years and have no desire to go back. At least it'll be warmer than upstate NY...
11 posted on 02/09/2009 6:14:13 PM PST by IMTOFT (Bad politicians are elected by good people who don't vote)
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To: shielagolden

They just noticed this, huh?

“Tonight at eleven: new evidence that it is darker at night than in the daytime!”


12 posted on 02/09/2009 6:14:27 PM PST by Right Wing Assault (What's Obama's Secret?)
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To: xcamel
3rd post

Good. I missed the first two.

13 posted on 02/09/2009 6:15:47 PM PST by Right Wing Assault (What's Obama's Secret?)
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To: IMTOFT

Cancel it. Better safe than sorry. There’ll be more customers...


14 posted on 02/09/2009 6:21:42 PM PST by Beloved Levinite (R.I.P. My Beautiful America - Land of the Free & Home of the Brave - 20 January 2009)
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To: Canedawg
“That’s what i wanted to know- looks like they have the spectrum of drugs covered. It’s not just pot.”

Pot's the big one though. The ONDCP recently estimated that around 62% of their gross proceeds from drug sales to Americans are from pot. The next most popular drug was cocaine. About 28% of their gross proceeds were coming from that, less than 8% from meth and less than 3% from heroin. Unlike cocaine, these people actually produce the marijuana they sell so marijuana accounts for probably more than 62% of their total net proceeds from drug sales to Americans.

15 posted on 02/09/2009 6:23:38 PM PST by SmallGovRepub
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To: shielagolden

We’ve been pussy footing around the gang issue for decades, and the problem is finally going ballistic.

Is this supposed to surprise anyone?

Now it’s time to disarm the public, now that the gangs have their networks set up.

Obama, the answer to what ails us... (someone give me a barf bag)


16 posted on 02/09/2009 6:25:17 PM PST by DoughtyOne (Bipartisainship is now about a 3 to 532 vote on Capital Hill.)
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To: Misterioso

Here is our http://www.elpasotimes.com/ci_11655818policy.....


17 posted on 02/09/2009 6:27:03 PM PST by csmusaret (You can't spell Democrat without R-A-T.)
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To: SmallGovRepub

Interesting info, thanks.

I figured that historically there has always been pot smuggled in from Mexico; I was curious if they had branched out at all.

It’s a lot of violence and crime over a weed that makes people mellow, sleepy and hungry.


18 posted on 02/09/2009 6:32:20 PM PST by Canedawg ( I object to taxation without proper representation.)
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To: Canedawg
It’s a lot of violence and crime over a weed that makes people mellow, sleepy and hungry.

And over a weed that you could easily grow in your window box or front yard planting bed if it weren't for the cops ready to inflict even more violence against you for doing so.

Imagine what could happen if we had the guts to cut off over 60% of the cartels' income.

19 posted on 02/09/2009 6:42:09 PM PST by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: Misterioso
That tells you how powerful the drug traffickers are—that they can keep the issue out of the “debate.”

The issue is not part of the debate because both sides are scared that they might not be draconian enough to appease the drug warriors. So they don't talk about the failed drug war at all.
20 posted on 02/09/2009 6:44:31 PM PST by mysterio
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To: Canedawg
Mexican drug trafficking organizations now control the biggest part of the wholesale drug distribution networks in the U.S. The Colombians have pretty much allowed them to take over distribution of their cocaine. They're producing some heroin and smuggling more in from South America, although that's a minor portion of their business. There just isn't that much demand for heroin here. They're producing meth in Mexico and here. They're producing a lot of the marijuana that's being grown here too. They haven't been involved much with indoor growing, but if you pay attention you'll notice more and more Hispanic names in the busts of indoor marijuana growing operations. These guys are really taking over the drug business. They're making so much money that they've hired private armies and completely corrupted the Mexican government with bribes. Those that won't take their money are threatened and in many cases killed. They are completely destabilizing the Mexican government and they are a definite threat here as well.
21 posted on 02/09/2009 6:50:30 PM PST by SmallGovRepub
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To: mysterio
Forty years ago, using slide rules and vacuum tube technology, we put people on the Moon.

There simply is no real interest in D.C., or your local state capitol in stopping the flow, just that the right people control it.

22 posted on 02/09/2009 6:55:37 PM PST by investigateworld ( Abortion stops a beating heart)
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To: mysterio
The issue is not part of the debate because both sides are scared that they might not be draconian enough to appease the drug warriors.

You got it. We should legalize pot and be done with it. Doing so would cut a significant portion of the drug gangs incentive to protect their territory and would generate some much needed tax revenue.

I live in the Pacific NW area of the country. Many, many people partake of marijuana around here. I live in a very affluent suburb of Portland and I'm surprised how many people, once they have a drink or two in them, will own up to smoking pot once in a while. And these aren't blue collar types making 40k a year, these are business leaders and people who have a strong entrepreneurial drive.

Keeping pot illegal doesn't seem rational. Instead, it seems to be a way to punish people that the drug warriors don't like.

23 posted on 02/09/2009 6:59:31 PM PST by Sirloin (Fundamentalism kills.)
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To: shielagolden
There are plenty of reports of gang violence south of the border. According to this Daily Telegraph Article:
Since January,2008 more than 1,300 people have been killed in execution-style hits or gunned down in fire fights, which often rage for hours in broad daylight and turn residential neighbourhoods into war zones. If the trend continues, 2008 will top last year's toll of 2,500 deaths in drug-related killings.
You don't hear so much about Americans at the Border. Too bad.

Americans are regularly abused. According to this article entitled US Warns Tourists of 'Small-Unit Combat' at Mexico Border -- Murder and kidnapping of Americans has become routine all along the US Mexican border. According to the State Department sometimes heavily armed attackers wear the uniforms of the Mexican police or military. According to Mexicans their military has even become part of the problem. The US Border Patrol has complained to the Bush administration about Mexican military incursions to no avail.

If there is silence about events at the border. The silence about killings north of the border is deafening. And yet....

More Americans killed by illegal aliens than Iraq war, study says The liberal LA Times is now reporting that Mexico's drug wars are now north of the borders--but soto voce. Think about it. A man or woman killed in Iraq or Iran in the line of duty is a hero. But what is an American killed at home by an illegal alien because the government has failed in its sworn duty to guard the borders. This is a pact between the sovereign and the person has paid taxes and loyalty. The answer is to that question is pretty awful. And it bodes ill for the republic.

But is it true?

Yes, according Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa.When you start digging into the numbers the only ones that can be sourced with the feds are the number of American murdered in 2005: 16692
I have seen federal numbers for illegals held in jail ranging from 19.3% to 27% of the federal prison population.

Here's a sampling of USA cities wanted for murder. What you'll see is that in big USA cities like LA or NYC most of the murderers are Hispanic. Unknown are the % of illegals. In smaller cities the FBI will post the nationalities of the murderers. About 25% of the most wanted are illegals wanted for murder. This number agrees with the percentage of illegals incarcerated in federal prisons. +-25%

Pictures of top 10 most wanted in LA. Up until recent stories about crime in LA posted by the LA Times--the pictures included the nationality of the murderers. They were all foreign nationals and mostly Mexican.

Wanted for Murder in New York City.

Chicago wanted for Murder


Philadelphia wanted for murder

San Francisco wanted for Murder


New Orleans wanted for Murder

Pictures of suspects wanted for murder in Washington DC Alas, the Washington DC pictures have recently been taken down.

FBI USA 10 most wanted. (two of 10 are Mexican nationals) Around 40% of the FBI's wanted for murder are Mexican Nationals

There are currently no exact numbers on the number of Americans killed by illegals. Part of the reason is that the government deliberately obscures the number. I talked on the phone with the head of statistics for the US Bureau of Prisons. He said his office wasn't allowed to publish the number of illegal alien murderers. Rather they were forced to put legal and non legal residents in the same category. He said further that most of illegals in the federal prisons were in for drug related charges. Most of the illegals in jail for murder were in the state prisons. I talked to ICE. They put out detailed numbers on illegal child molestors. However, they put out nothing on illegal murderers.

Part of the reason for the silence on the matter is that there is evidence to suggest that most Americans--but by no means all -- being killed by illegals are black--as is the suggestion in this LA Times Article. Also this article from the LA Times. And here. This makes intuitive sense. We see stories regularly of drug gang killings in Mexico but we don't see those same stories in the USA. The reason we don't see those stories is not because its not happening. Rather we don't see the stories about illegals killing blacks because that kind of story is terribly politically incorrect. The populations being displaced in downtown sanctuary cities especially are American blacks. That means that their criminal elements would be pushed aside by Mexican gangs as well. That's also the story that the wanted for murder posters in all the major cities seems to suggest.

Why isn't there an outcry in the black community? Beats me.

Nevertheless, the pattern of non reporting is starting to break. Discovery Channel has a series called Gangland that mentions ethnic cleasing of blacks by Mexican gangs. One woman in San Francisco who had her family killed by an illegal is even demanding the city to drop its sanctuary city status. Illegals themselves have become the targets of kidnappers Mexican style in Arizona where drug money from south of the border is often parked.

Reported Foreign Nationals on Death Row in the U.S.

To look at other USA cities go here http://stlouis.fbi.gov/ and replace stlouis with the city you want.

That said, the true number of criminal aliens is far higher than is revealed by criminal aliens in prisons. Most are simply waived through the courts. DHS Secretary Chertoff, has been quoted as warning that two million people in this country illegally have committed serious crimes. Here is more info from Judicial Watch.

However the number of illegals on death row is far lower. Sadly, so many small towns and villages across America have sent their warriors off to war half way across the world only to see communities fill up with illegal aliens. The Center For Immigration Studies has provided a detailed account of the illegal alien gang problem


24 posted on 02/09/2009 7:49:56 PM PST by ckilmer (Phi)
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To: investigateworld

“Forty years ago, using slide rules and vacuum tube technology, we put people on the Moon.
There simply is no real interest in D.C., or your local state capitol in stopping the flow, just that the right people control it.”

There is plenty of interest in stopping it, they just can’t. Space travel is easy compared to stopping the law of supply and demand.


25 posted on 02/09/2009 7:51:03 PM PST by SmallGovRepub
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To: shielagolden
But El Paso remains one of America's safest cities, something Cuthbertson said is probably a result of the huge law enforcement presence in town, including thousands of Border Patrol and customs agents.

Puleez. If the cartels wanted to make a hit there they would. It's not worth it to them to wake the sleeping giant. Their weapons are good, their hitmen trained by the military(often US), and they are pretty much fearless. They just don't see any cost benefit of fighting in US border towns.

26 posted on 02/09/2009 8:07:16 PM PST by MovementConservative (Oregon Ducks 42, Oklahoma St. Cowboys 31)
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To: shielagolden

So end it, duh.


27 posted on 02/09/2009 8:09:25 PM PST by Force of Truth (Sarah Palin in 2012!!!!!! WOOOHOOOOO!!!!!!!!!)
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To: SmallGovRepub

You forgot to mention meth. Meth production is done in the safety of Mexico and shipped here, via open borders.


28 posted on 02/09/2009 8:13:20 PM PST by Force of Truth (Sarah Palin in 2012!!!!!! WOOOHOOOOO!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Canedawg
That’s what i wanted to know- looks like they have the spectrum of drugs covered. It’s not just pot.

Yes, but pot has the biggest market of all the drugs.

29 posted on 02/09/2009 8:16:10 PM PST by Force of Truth (Sarah Palin in 2012!!!!!! WOOOHOOOOO!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Misterioso
That tells you how powerful the drug traffickers are—that they can keep the issue out of the “debate.”

Do you really think Obuma would disenfranchise his drug dealing friends(foreign and domestic)?

30 posted on 02/09/2009 8:24:01 PM PST by Force of Truth (Sarah Palin in 2012!!!!!! WOOOHOOOOO!!!!!!!!!)
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To: mvpel
And over a weed that you could easily grow in your window box or front yard planting bed if it weren't for the cops ready to inflict even more violence against you for doing so.

Not to mention the boost to the GDP through hemp and import(mail orders cha-ching!) of marijuana to other countries where it is illegal. If you combined the legalization of marijuana and the drilling for oil in the US, the US would have the wealthiest citizenry in the world percapita by far in 5 years or less. Small business and big business alike would profit. Talk about a real stimulus plan. Simple, yet effective.

31 posted on 02/09/2009 8:34:58 PM PST by Force of Truth (Sarah Palin in 2012!!!!!! WOOOHOOOOO!!!!!!!!!)
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To: shielagolden
set up drug-dealing operations all over the U.S., in such far-flung places as Anchorage, Alaska; Boston; and Sioux Falls, S.D.

I don't claim to understand the mindset of folks in the Dakotas. These guys (or their close neighbors) elected the likes of Tommy Daschole fer cripes sake! The gangs will have easy picken's in Bah-stan but they may find things a bit more tough than they bargained on with those hardy souls in PALIN-LAND!!!

32 posted on 02/09/2009 9:49:38 PM PST by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: Force of Truth
I actually did mention it, but you are right. Mexicans do supply the biggest part of the meth consumed in this country. They make it in Mexico and they make it here in “super labs” operating around the clock producing huge batches of ten pounds or more per batch, compared to kitchen meth labs that were usually producing less than ten grams per batch and most of that was being consumed by the tweakers that were making it and all their helpers who collected pseudoephedrine for them and did manual labor like scraping the red phosphorous off of matchbook strike pads. Almost all the “Ice” people smoke here is coming from these super labs. They get all their chemicals in bulk, including their pseudoephedrine. It was never coming from pharmacies a few boxes at a time.
33 posted on 02/09/2009 10:26:59 PM PST by SmallGovRepub
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To: Force of Truth

I’m always amazed that a “free” people would allow any gov’t to tell them what they can and cannot consume. For their own good, of course ;)


34 posted on 02/09/2009 10:39:12 PM PST by OldTCS (Confirmed, we now live in interesting times.)
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To: cripplecreek

Bilingual education is a crock. The only way a school in the United States should teach in a foreign language is if the student signs up to learn the foreign language.


35 posted on 02/09/2009 10:42:49 PM PST by rfreedom4u (Political correctness is a form of censorship!)
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To: SmallGovRepub
I actually did mention it, but you are right. Mexicans do supply the biggest part of the meth consumed in this country. They make it in Mexico and they make it here in “super labs” operating around the clock producing huge batches of ten pounds or more per batch, compared to kitchen meth labs that were usually producing less than ten grams per batch and most of that was being consumed by the tweakers that were making it and all their helpers who collected pseudoephedrine for them and did manual labor like scraping the red phosphorous off of matchbook strike pads. Almost all the “Ice” people smoke here is coming from these super labs. They get all their chemicals in bulk, including their pseudoephedrine. It was never coming from pharmacies a few boxes at a time.

Yeah, sorry about that. I got that you knew that when I read through the thread a little more. I know a lot of people want to put up these phony safeguards such as limiting psuedoephedrine, or banning it or whatever. What that means is less freedom for everyone coupled with more profit for the mobs. I say let the druggies make their own brew and sell it from the stores legally. The druggies will always get their fix, but at least the violent mobs will have to find greener pastures somewhere else. This WOD is really becoming an out and out war of epic proportions. It's a monster that just does not stop growing. The Law of Unintended Consequences at work before us.

36 posted on 02/09/2009 11:53:52 PM PST by Force of Truth (Sarah Palin in 2012!!!!!! WOOOHOOOOO!!!!!!!!!)
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To: OldTCS
I’m always amazed that a “free” people would allow any gov’t to tell them what they can and cannot consume. For their own good, of course ;)

It amazes me how many people don't know how to take care of their own lives and need big daddy socialism to intervene. It's like one of my friends said years ago. What people want is a King. Well, they got Obama, that's pretty close.

37 posted on 02/09/2009 11:58:52 PM PST by Force of Truth (Sarah Palin in 2012!!!!!! WOOOHOOOOO!!!!!!!!!)
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To: FlingWingFlyer

its going to get a lot worse. we have a weak Prez


38 posted on 02/10/2009 12:40:42 AM PST by GeronL (please stand by...)
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To: OldTCS

I concur.

I do not use pot. I would not if it were legal. I generally do not associate with the marijuana culture or like those who do, but...

The argument to legalize it is simply stronger than to keep it criminal. The same laws that apply to alcohol should be used to regulate it - no driving, no smoking it in public, etc. I wonder if the reason the government doesn’t legalize it is that it will not make any money from it - people would simply grow and process it in their homes and yards and sell it to one another. The government could regulate it and tax the hell out of it like tobacco and alcohol, but it would be far easier to circumvent that with pot.


39 posted on 02/10/2009 4:34:09 AM PST by Cap74 (You can disagree with me. You can attack me. Do not lie to me.)
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To: spectre; truthkeeper; processing please hold; antceecee; navymom1; jaredt112; Edgerunner; ...

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40 posted on 02/10/2009 5:13:41 AM PST by bcsco (Illinois politicians should be read their Miranda rights when sworn in to office...)
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To: shielagolden

All this.. and STILL no border wall.


41 posted on 02/10/2009 5:27:16 AM PST by ScottinVA (Make my world PURRRFECT, Lord Obama!)
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To: Canedawg
a weed that makes people mellow, sleepy and hungry.

It does more than that...

There is a much greater number of women who avoid marijuana. Usually in teenagers, it is a far greater number of the boys...

It makes them feminized, docile, lazy and in many cases dishonest sneak thieves...

When the chronics don't get their stuff they become bitchy, vindictive and very petty over some of the stupidest things. I saw lots of fistfights over pot(and worse) in highschool.

I think with the whole drug issue most people ignore the real danger...

It has been chemical warfare against young people in this country and in the West since the 1960s.

42 posted on 02/10/2009 5:30:20 AM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (Arjuna, why have you have dropped your bow???)
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood
It makes them feminized, docile, lazy and in many cases dishonest sneak thieves...

I will agree with you there. Chronic users are @sswipes with no brains and no d*ck. It lowers testosterone. Plus the whole hip-hop culture is quite annoying. I can put up with hippies for maybe a second or two longer, but after awhile their crap get's old. It's really not about honoring the potheads so much as it's about creating wealth off of them and ending the violence connected with the drug trade, imo.

43 posted on 02/10/2009 8:48:02 PM PST by Force of Truth (Sarah Palin in 2012!!!!!! WOOOHOOOOO!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Cap74
I agree. It always seems to be about the money. DUI already extends to other drugs I believe.

I don't use anything other than prescribed medicine now. If it were legalized I think I would consider it as an alternative to prescribed painkillers later on. My wife has cancer, and the warranty on my body seems to have expired so no telling what's coming up. Imagine the savings to taxpayers if we could simply “grow our own” pain meds.
Something tells me the pharmaceutical companies will object. ;)

44 posted on 02/10/2009 8:59:02 PM PST by OldTCS (Confirmed, we now live in interesting times.)
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To: OldTCS

That’s how it all started, if memory serves. The chemical industry came up with synthetic fibers so they lobbied Congress to outlaw hemp production. The switch was completed before the second world war finished and only a few hemp leggings and tents and naval ropes survive to this day.


45 posted on 02/10/2009 9:03:24 PM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN
I transferred off my last destroyer in late 1989, and at that time all of the mooring lines were still manila. I don't know what is in use now. I've heard there is a new synthetic called Spectra, but don't know much about it.
When I was on ship, I always distrusted the synthetic lines that were in use for other than mooring purposes, because of the potential snap-back if they parted.
46 posted on 02/10/2009 9:58:44 PM PST by OldTCS (Confirmed, we now live in interesting times.)
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To: shielagolden

It concerns me that we are spending so much money and man power in the Middle East and we are not doing enough to stop all the drug related violence that is impacting the US. I am currently visiting New Mexico from Alaska and every night I hear on the local news of more and more violence. It is quite scary. Mexico is our neighbor, and there is a war going on over there that the US is a part of. Why are we not doing more to stop it. Building walls and beefing up our border enforcement is not going to solve the problem. It would just hide the problem a bit more from the US, but it would still be there. We need to be utilizing our resources here and we need to be helping Mexico with this horrific issue.


47 posted on 02/11/2009 9:39:07 PM PST by bernicorb
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