Posted on 05/20/2009 2:10:08 PM PDT by FreeKeys
I don’t speak for all Libertarians any more than Sean Penn speaks for all Democrats. I’m not even sure my LP membership card is up to date. I’ve voted Libertarian as long as I can remember but I don’t really remember much before the Clintons and the Bushes. Those clans made a lot of us bugnutty. When I go on Glenn’s show he calls me a Libertarian, I think that’s my only real credential.
There are historical reasons and pragmatic reasons to be a Libertarian, but there are historic and pragmatic reasons to be a Democrat, a Republican or a Socialist. I don’t know if everyone would be better off under a Libertarian government. I don’t know what would be best for anyone. I don’t even know what’s best for me. What makes me Libertarian is I don’t think anyone else really knows what’s best for anyone. My argument for Libertarianism is simple - personal morality.
I start with the Declaration of Independence: “Governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.” So, essentially our government does what they do with my consent.
I know barely enough about Max Weber to type his name into Google, but it seems he’s credited with asserting the idea that the state has a monopoly on the legitimate use of physical force. I put those two ideas together (my consent and use of physical force) and figure we all give our government the right to use force. So, the way I figure, it’s not okay for our government to use force in any situation where I personally wouldn’t use force.
For example, if I’m not willing to kill a cute cow, I shouldn’t eat steak. I don’t have to kill Bessy right now with my bare hands, but I have to be willing to snuff her if I want to chow down on a T-bone. If it’s not okay for me, it’s not okay for a slaughterhouse. Asking someone else to do something immoral is immoral. If it’s not okay for me to break David Blaine’s hands so my magic show has less competition, it’s not okay for me to ask someone else to beat him up. Someone else doing your dirty work is still your dirty work.
If I had a gun, and I knew a murder was happening, (we’re speaking hypothetically here, I’m not asking you to believe that I could accurately tell a murder from aggressive CPR), I would use that gun to stop that murder. I might be too much of a coward to use a gun myself to stop a murder or rape or robbery, but I think the use of a gun is justified. I’m even okay with using force to enforce voluntary contracts. If I were a hero, I would use a gun to protect the people who choose to live under this free system and to stop another country from attacking America. But I wouldn’t use a gun to force someone to love something like say…a library.
Look, I love libraries. I spent a lot of time in the Greenfield Public Library when I was a child. I would give money to build a library. I would ask you to give money to build a library. But, if for some reason you were crazy enough to think you had a better idea for your money than building my library, I wouldn’t pull a gun on you. I wouldn’t use a gun to build an art museum, look at the wonders of the universe through a big telescope, or even find a cure for cancer.
The fact that the majority wants something good does not give them the right to use force on the minority that don’t want to pay for it. If you have to use a gun, it’s not really a very good idea. Democracy without respect for individual rights sucks. It’s just ganging up on the weird kid, and I’m always the weird kid.
People try to argue that government isn’t really force. You believe that? Try not paying your taxes. (This is only a thought experiment though -- suggesting someone not pay their taxes is probably a federal offense, and while I may be a nut, I’m not crazy.) When they come to get you for not paying your taxes, try not going to court. Guns will be drawn. Government is force.
It’s amazing to me how many people think that voting to have the government give poor people money is compassion. Helping poor and suffering people yourself is compassion. Voting for our government to use guns to give money to help poor and suffering people is immoral self-righteous bullying laziness. People need to be fed, medicated, educated, clothed, and sheltered. If we’re compassionate, we’ll help them, but you get no moral credit for forcing other people to do what you think is right. There is great joy in helping people, but no joy in doing it at gunpoint.
I’m a Libertarian nut because I don’t want my government to do anything in my name that I wouldn’t do myself.
Penn Jillette is a celebrated magician, comedian, actor, author and producer. He is best known as the larger, louder half of Penn & Teller, a role he has held since 1975. With his partner Teller, Jillette has been awarded an Obie and an Emmy Award. Their critically acclaimed stage show spent several years both on and off-Broadway, and now has a permanent home at the Rio All-Suite Hotel & Casino in Las Vegas.
Jillette can be seen weekly co-hosting the 11 time Emmy-nominated Showtime series. He also posts daily rants on his "Penn Says" VLog at Sony's www.Crackle.com site.
You’re exactly right. That Beck is so in love with Penn Juliette says a lot about what he really believes. It’s beginning to look more and more like he’s trying to lead conservatives to the Libertarian party.
Get the government out of the EDUCATION business. Then you won’t have it to worry about. You can then use SOCIETAL pressures to show your disapproval of the homosexual lifestyle. Which is the way it SHOULD be.
Except she was a dedicated atheist.
....Bravo, Penn Jillette, Last time I posted about Mr. Jillette speaking his mind was on Larry King, and all I got back was sh!t about, Why are you watching him? Or fook him, if he’s there. (King). Same drivel from this forum for 8 years bashing third partys, and now the tin hats from the third party are celebrated, and they need to be included in the Gee Ohhh foookin Pee! Cause uuuhhh someobody fooked up the last election, ?!? ,.!,,
So exactly WHAT is your disagreement with the article? Where is he wrong and why?
I meant, of course, that his sthick is not to talk, so “he doesn’t speak for anyone” comes from that. Their TV show takes on BS every episode, so you can tell both of them have firm views and libertarian minds.
and the smokin’ hot Remi Spencer.
The maxim ‘Nothing but perfection’ may be spelled ‘p-a-r-a-l-y-s-i-s’: Churchill
So suppose you do know what would be best for someone else. Is it right of you to force them to do it whether they want to or not?
Though Beck was ill today the Judge had the loonie Libertarian Ron Paul on today, and Beck had the other loonie on yesterday that said he wouldn't care if Israel disappeared.
If he continues this vein he will lose the people that count.
That makes about as much sense as anything else I've read about politics since I've been 'paying attention'. I wouldn't be a BIT surprised if what you said were true. We no longer have two parties, we have two classes with opposing interests; on one side you have the political uber class, which is made up of most all politicians along with their beneficiaries and dependents, and on the other you have people like us who want to just do the best for themselves and their families as they can. The political class and everyone that depends on them can only exist by using the outcome of OUR success and labor, both current and future. It has grown so out of control they are even spending money WE haven't even yet produced. It's long past the time for a revolt!
Sadly many people do, and though you don't think you are discriminating, the dismissive attitude of Christians as weak minded cripples that need a crutch, is attack enough.
By the way that is a quote from Former Governor Jessie the Body Ventura.
It's the asset forfeitures and federal grant money for SWAT teams that drive the major crazyness. Follow the money.
A hundred years ago, there were no laws against cocaine or heroin. Prior to passage of the Harrison Narcotics Act in 1914, people could buy opiates in the local pharmacy. While there were a number of addicts, social controls kept a lid on things.
Since there was no welfare, anybody who became an addict ceased to be productive and became a burden on his or her family, who would have a strong incentive to deal with the addict. Not surprisingly, drug abuse became a big problem around the same time that welfare programs eliminated much of the consequences of allowing somebody to become an addict.
Bingo. EXCELLENT point. Thanks for making it. I think I'll use it.
Anyone who believes in using the power of the State to control, in any way, the non-coercive, voluntary behavior of other people. You, for example.
Full on gayness in the military? no thanks.
Volunteering for the military is negotiating a contract.
If the military chooses to regard certain acts as conduct prejudicial to good order and discipline it can do so and charge those in violation of the contract they signed.
Not if the Libertarians prevail over American culture and laws.
Homosexuals: 1.3 Personal Relationships (2008 Libertarian Party Platform)
Sexual orientation, preference, gender, or gender identity should have no impact on the rights of individuals by government, such as in current marriage, child custody, adoption, immigration or military service laws. Consenting adults should be free to choose their own sexual practices and personal relationships. Government does not have the authority to define, license or restrict personal relationships
We already discussed that.
Full on gayness in the military? no thanks.
Just like Ronald Reagan I don’t go for that Libertarian “let it all hang out” stuff.
And what makes you think it does not?
Frankly, I'm sick to death of PSAs promoting everything from the Peace Corps to "buckle up." And with 0bama in the White House, it's only going to get worse, I'm afraid.
The government promoting morality is (borrowing from Penn Jillette's analogy) like a slaughterhouse pushing vegetarianism. You don't need to ask why.
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