and misleading conclusions I always go to the
Institute for Creation Research.
Posted on 12/08/2009 7:52:39 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
esearch has shown that humans like to help, even before they are old enough to have been taught how to do so. This innate characteristic distinguishes humans from their supposed closest evolutionary family member, the chimpanzee, which doesn’t demonstrate the same altruistic behavior.
In studies on the subject, at only 18 months old, toddlers were observed to consistently aid unrelated adults in simple tasks such as opening a door or picking up a clothes pin. Researchers assumed then that altruism, or unselfish concern for the welfare of others, evolved early in humans. But does this conclusion necessarily follow from the observations? ...
(Excerpt) Read more at icr.org ...
Ah, I haven’t sorted all my thoughts out into full coherence or a conclusion. Thinking out loud here:
My oldest son is on the autistic spectrum. I believe part of his difficulty is genetic, a genetic susceptibility at least if not the entire cause. He was not helpful as a small child. He didn’t try to be pleasing. If we lived in a small tribe on the edge of survival with tempers short someone probably would have had a go at him. Two of his siblings are much younger than he, 8 and 13 years. By the time they were 8 months old they knew not didn’t like to be touched and didn’t try to any more. Reading a potential threat and not angering a big guy is a definite survival trait when you’re little. It makes sense for God to give us survival traits, but it makes sense from the evolutionary point of view too.
It’s not that my son has no altruism; he has altruism in the large abstract sense. He wants to defend his country and its people by serving in the military. He has a conscience; he has insight into his deficits and lack of empathy; he asked for me to pray for him the other day, that he become a more decent person.
Consider how hormones influence behavior. DNA codes for oxytocin synthesis, and oxytocin promotes bonding and trust, especially of a woman to her husband in the marriage bed, and to her babies when she nurses them.
Men have oxytocin too; it’s just not so dramatic with them. People on the autistic spectrum may have lower levels of oxytocin or an unusual response to it.
Then there are the people with no conscience, no empathy and no altruism, the sociopaths. Some of them I truly believe are born that way. They’re the ones who make me question God, how could He have made them so? If such people can exist, does He?
The unity of spirit and flesh: we are our bodies. Not that we are only what is physical, what can be measured by senses and instruments, but that we don’t merely inhabit our bodies; we ARE them, or else why should it matter that the dead be raised? Why should God not have written our consciences, our sense of justice, our empathy not only on the non-material fabric of our soul, but into our very DNA? And yet that DNA is a mess in many ways. The sociopaths. The autistic.
Looking only at the physical, consider the sickle cell trait, a survival trait: for every two children who are more likely to survive malaria, one dies early and painfully from an ischemic crisis. Would God create like that? No, but evolution would. Or a Fall.
Dembski just came out with a new book about the Fall reaching backward in time as well as forward. I’ve had that idea myself; I’ll have to see where he goes with it.
I shall attempt to digest what you have posted and respond as necessary. Thank you for our input.
Actually my numbers were way off in the sickle cell thing - I was thinking of two carriers marrying each other but there are the carriers marrying the non-carriers too. There’s more like 14 people benefitting from having one copy of the gene for every kid who dies of having two copies in the places where the trait is most prevalent (25%rate) - but it’s still an evolutionary type survival trait, not a Godly one.
(It’s late - brain shutting down - hope those last numbers were right.)
“Debate on church doctrine and or threads on specific religious matters may be best posted in the religion forum, but the defense of religious freedom, especially against those who wish to deprive us of same belongs front and center on FR....They banned God and prayer and creationism from public schools and public places, but I’ll be damned if they’re gonna ban Him or it from FR!”
—Jim Robinson
"I love science. Just like evolution, it’s one of God’s greatest creations. It’s the gift that keeps on giving."
- Jim Robinson
Again BTMS* asks us to conclude that 2 +2 = 5. Yes, altruism is nearly universally observed in children, but it is not unique to humans and not extra-evolutionary. There are many examples of altruism in the animal kingdom. Additionally, the synergistic results of altruistic behavior within groups can and does provide a significant advantage in the competition for survival.
Research has shown that humans like to help, even before they are old enough to have been taught how to do so. This innate characteristic distinguishes humans from their supposed closest evolutionary family member, the chimpanzee, which doesn’t demonstrate the same altruistic behavior.The research he cites is that of Dr. Michael Tomasello. Brian's second sentence didn't sound right to me, so I Googled "chimpanzee altruism." And lo, the first hit is for a study by that same Dr. Tomasello et al. And in the abstract for that study, what do we find?
Many researchers have claimed that such altruism emanates from a species-unique psychology not found in humans' closest living evolutionary relatives, such as the chimpanzee....In contrast, we report experimental evidence that chimpanzees perform basic forms of helping in the absence of rewards spontaneously and repeatedly toward humans and conspecifics. In two comparative studies, semi–free ranging chimpanzees helped an unfamiliar human to the same degree as did human infants, irrespective of being rewarded (experiment 1) or whether the helping was costly (experiment 2)....These results indicate that chimpanzees share crucial aspects of altruism with humans, suggesting that the roots of human altruism may go deeper than previous experimental evidence suggested.So Brian, and GGG: you were saying?
What did you expect. BTMS* and GGG NEVER let the facts get in the way of a good story. They are simply preaching to their own crowd who are either too lazy, dumb, or convinced to actually do any resarch or critical assessment.
This article makes no sense, Biblically or logically. The conclusion drawn does not follow from the mimimal propositions stated.
Well said.
I wonder if evolution can explain things like GGG...oh yeah,
it’s called ‘evolutionary dead end’
Welcome to the world of GGG and the ‘militant crevoetts’
The defiant “God is dead” proclamation is a monstrous swindle perpetrated by spiritually-diseased men-—ie., Feuerbach, Marx, Nietzsche— who not only lusted after the powers of God the Father but sought escape from Him by way of a return to nature.
Needing a replacement for God the Father Marx, et al eagerly accepted and promoted Darwin’s idea of evolution precisely because it . Evolutionary theory is also a hoax. The first historic mention of evolution comes from ancient Shinar. Though the Pharoah’s implied evolution as the mechanism of creation, it was mystics in India who refined evolution as the mechanism of reincarnation.
The rebels of yesterday and today prefer chaos to order, altruism to the virtue of transcendant Love, meaninglessness to meaning, lie to truth, immorality to morality, themselves as gods instead of God the Father. The dread spirit of evolutionary theory presents them with all that their self-deluded hearts desire. The price? Their souls.
“I don’t think God will take kindly........”
No doubt about it.
That about covers it.
Thanks for posting something that actually refers to the article. It’s a strong argument too. Others can better argue against your point. I just wanted to commend you for actually adding something to this debate while most the evos just try to flame in order to get GGG’s post banished to Religion.
I’m not being sarcastic either.
See, this is what I’m talking about:
“Can altruism be explained by evolution?
Yes.
End of story.”
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