Posted on 02/20/2010 2:42:51 PM PST by onyx
Despite his failure to articulate the specific foreign policy most find palatable, on domestic issues and the Constitution, Paul does have an appeal.
He has been thoroughly Alinskied by people on both sides of the aisle as a "nutcase", but that is over an assertion of Constitutional constraints even many who consider themselves 'conservative' find unpalatable. Everyone has their pet programs, or so it seems.However, those Constitutionalist positions are finding resonance with younger people, who are going to have to pay the tab for the extra-Constitutional excesses of the past, one way or another.
Keep in mind we are dealing with a young group of conservative-leaning people who see what hoops their parents have to jump through to start or run a business, hear them griping at tax time, and see the inherent unfairness in all the Federal edicts supposedly designed to make things "fair". They are young, but are getting fed up.
Now, I'm a great-grandpa, and they talk with me, and I with them. It hasn't been that long ago that I was younger, with the world as my oyster, ready to write my own ticket. My idealism ran head-on into the brick wall of reality, too, about the same time my karma ran over my dogma.
To say, "Their idealism doesn’t translate into votes." isn't completely accurate. It can, but they want something or someone to vote for.
I can understand that.
I have, since I started voting, cast my vote on Presidential ballots against someone by voting for the person most likely to beat them, not overwhelmingly for any candidate, except as someone to beat that other less qualified candidate.
The lesser of two evils has, predictably, brought evil, just at a slower pace.
Now, there are other young 'idealists' out there, misguided, mistaken, or unmugged, and they are actively courted by the other side--and roundly encouraged by the other side to vote.
If Conservatives would mentor the young Libertarians, leaving the labels out of it and working merely on basic beliefs, I think their votes would be counted, too.
But we aren't going to attract that vote with more of the same-ol'-same-ol' RINO crap, even to defeat the Democrats and the Socialists, because idealists are looking for someone they can vote for.
Until and unless a Conservative candidate is up there, embracing policy changes which will put a fire in their young bellies, they just see more of the crap that got us where we are, and no reason to get off the couch.
The GOP is getting there, but despite a good defense, it is still prone to fumbling the ball in the fourth quarter.
We need candidates who are Conservative, who have the guts to articulate positions the press will attack. Because if it is Right, the press will attack it. If we cannot speak the truth, if we cannot advocate what is right, we will have to either fight for it in bloodier ways or we will have to submit to the tyranny so many have fought against.
So, where are they? Where are the candidates who will embrace the clear contrast to Washington Politics as we have known it in our lifetimes?
Unless and until they appear on the scene, or pragmatism rears its ugly head, our youth will continue to feel the futility in the process and fail to vote.
Revolutions are carried out by young people over ideals, all they need is a rallying point, a person to rally around, and a set of core beliefs to unite them.
Conservatives can do that, but not if we are busy decrying libertarians as "kooks" and wasting what could have been productive dialogue with blatant and often unjustifiable hostility.
As for some of the more 'far out' beliefs, those to me are just a sympton of the inherent distrust some people have in the Government, something which I can not say the Government has not earned.
It is the candidates who buck the status quo who will have the best chances.
Indeed, the GOP is a mess, for all of the “can’t believe it” and “Ron Paul lol!”’s the real message here is that the GOP is not coalescing around any single figure or even Ideas.
That’s pretty darned good. I would add (as did the founders) a post office and coining money (not the Federal Reserve).
>>And you DON’T post kook pictures and slam Dr. Paul’s supporters? You’re way over the top here, yourself.<<
Mocking a nutcase is different that equating opposition to said nutcase to jihadists.
I don’t think I posted ANY ru paul pics here (but I am not going to comb the thread: FR has been having performance issues lately), but I guarantee none of them associated him or his syncophants with jihadists.
Given ru paul’s antipathy for Jews, I could (but won’t) post Mengela pic. And I could, but won’t, post pictures of people falling from the upper floors of the WTC while ru paul extends his stupid trvther nonsense.
I am not calling you a liberal, but I remind you it is liberals who use straw men as their foundation “arguments.”
Maybe coining gold and silver coins
But we don’t need a post office.
You can “remind” me of whatever you like, but the fact is you and your ilk are so far over the top in attacking Dr. Paul and those who support his ideas of smaller, CONSTITUTIONAL government that you have no business getting unhappy with someone who pushes back. “Pot, meet Kettle.”
Ohhhhhhhhh
Jew-hater, meet mirror.
Kook, meet clown.
Trvther, meet 9/11 victims.
good grief....
Maybe you need an update. I think Conservatives can find a lot of common ground with Libertarians if they read the whole thing, from 2008, and this website: http://www.lp.org/platform
Please note there are aspects of this I do not wholly agree with, but I present it here in the interest of honest discussion.
National Platform of the Libertarian Party
Adopted in Convention, May 2008, Denver, Colorado
Preamble
As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others.
We believe that respect for individual rights is the essential precondition for a free and prosperous world, that force and fraud must be banished from human relationships, and that only through freedom can peace and prosperity be realized.
Consequently, we defend each person’s right to engage in any activity that is peaceful and honest, and welcome the diversity that freedom brings. The world we seek to build is one where individuals are free to follow their own dreams in their own ways, without interference from government or any authoritarian power.
In the following pages we have set forth our basic principles and enumerated various policy stands derived from those principles.
These specific policies are not our goal, however. Our goal is nothing more nor less than a world set free in our lifetime, and it is to this end that we take these stands.
Statement of Principles
We, the members of the Libertarian Party, challenge the cult of the omnipotent state and defend the rights of the individual.
We hold that all individuals have the right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives, and have the right to live in whatever manner they choose, so long as they do not forcibly interfere with the equal right of others to live in whatever manner they choose.
Governments throughout history have regularly operated on the opposite principle, that the State has the right to dispose of the lives of individuals and the fruits of their labor. Even within the United States, all political parties other than our own grant to government the right to regulate the lives of individuals and seize the fruits of their labor without their consent.
We, on the contrary, deny the right of any government to do these things, and hold that where governments exist, they must not violate the rights of any individual: namely, (1) the right to life — accordingly we support the prohibition of the initiation of physical force against others; (2) the right to liberty of speech and action — accordingly we oppose all attempts by government to abridge the freedom of speech and press, as well as government censorship in any form; and (3) the right to property — accordingly we oppose all government interference with private property, such as confiscation, nationalization, and eminent domain, and support the prohibition of robbery, trespass, fraud, and misrepresentation.
Since governments, when instituted, must not violate individual rights, we oppose all interference by government in the areas of voluntary and contractual relations among individuals. People should not be forced to sacrifice their lives and property for the benefit of others. They should be left free by government to deal with one another as free traders; and the resultant economic system, the only one compatible with the protection of individual rights, is the free market.
1.0 Personal Liberty
Individuals should be free to make choices for themselves and to accept responsibility for the consequences of the choices they make. No individual, group, or government may initiate force against any other individual, group, or government. Our support of an individual’s right to make choices in life does not mean that we necessarily approve or disapprove of those choices.
1.1 Expression and Communication
We support full freedom of expression and oppose government censorship, regulation or control of communications media and technology. We favor the freedom to engage in or abstain from any religious activities that do not violate the rights of others. We oppose government actions which either aid or attack any religion.
1.2 Personal Privacy
We support the protections provided by the Fourth Amendment to be secure in our persons, homes, and property. Only actions that infringe on the rights of others can properly be termed crimes. We favor the repeal of all laws creating “crimes” without victims, such as the use of drugs for medicinal or recreational purposes.
1.3 Personal Relationships
Sexual orientation, preference, gender, or gender identity should have no impact on the rights of individuals by government, such as in current marriage, child custody, adoption, immigration or military service laws. Consenting adults should be free to choose their own sexual practices and personal relationships. Government does not have the authority to define, license or restrict personal relationships.
1.4 Abortion
Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration.
1.5 Crime and Justice
Government exists to protect the rights of every individual including life, liberty and property. Criminal laws should be limited to violation of the rights of others through force or fraud, or deliberate actions that place others involuntarily at significant risk of harm. Individuals retain the right to voluntarily assume risk of harm to themselves. We support restitution of the victim to the fullest degree possible at the expense of the criminal or the negligent wrongdoer. We oppose reduction of constitutional safeguards of the rights of the criminally accused. The rights of due process, a speedy trial, legal counsel, trial by jury, and the legal presumption of innocence until proven guilty, must not be denied. We assert the common-law right of juries to judge not only the facts but also the justice of the law.
1.6 Self-Defense
The only legitimate use of force is in defense of individual rights — life, liberty, and justly acquired property — against aggression. This right inheres in the individual, who may agree to be aided by any other individual or group. We affirm the right to keep and bear arms, and oppose the prosecution of individuals for exercising their rights of self-defense. We oppose all laws at any level of government requiring registration of, or restricting, the ownership, manufacture, or transfer or sale of firearms or ammunition.
2.0 Economic Liberty
A free and competitive market allocates resources in the most efficient manner. Each person has the right to offer goods and services to others on the free market. The only proper role of government in the economic realm is to protect property rights, adjudicate disputes, and provide a legal framework in which voluntary trade is protected. All efforts by government to redistribute wealth, or to control or manage trade, are improper in a free society.
2.1 Property and Contract
Property rights are entitled to the same protection as all other human rights. The owners of property have the full right to control, use, dispose of, or in any manner enjoy, their property without interference, until and unless the exercise of their control infringes the valid rights of others. We oppose all controls on wages, prices, rents, profits, production, and interest rates. We advocate the repeal of all laws banning or restricting the advertising of prices, products, or services. We oppose all violations of the right to private property, liberty of contract, and freedom of trade. The right to trade includes the right not to trade — for any reasons whatsoever. Where property, including land, has been taken from its rightful owners by the government or private action in violation of individual rights, we favor restitution to the rightful owners.
2.2 Environment
We support a clean and healthy environment and sensible use of our natural resources. Private landowners and conservation groups have a vested interest in maintaining natural resources. Pollution and misuse of resources cause damage to our ecosystem. Governments, unlike private businesses, are unaccountable for such damage done to our environment and have a terrible track record when it comes to environmental protection. Protecting the environment requires a clear definition and enforcement of individual rights in resources like land, water, air, and wildlife. Free markets and property rights stimulate the technological innovations and behavioral changes required to protect our environment and ecosystems. We realize that our planet’s climate is constantly changing, but environmental advocates and social pressure are the most effective means of changing public behavior.
2.3 Energy and Resources
While energy is needed to fuel a modern society, government should not be subsidizing any particular form of energy. We oppose all government control of energy pricing, allocation, and production.
2.4 Government Finance and Spending
All persons are entitled to keep the fruits of their labor. We call for the repeal of the income tax, the abolishment of the Internal Revenue Service and all federal programs and services not required under the U.S. Constitution. We oppose any legal requirements forcing employers to serve as tax collectors. Government should not incur debt, which burdens future generations without their consent. We support the passage of a “Balanced Budget Amendment” to the U.S. Constitution, provided that the budget is balanced exclusively by cutting expenditures, and not by raising taxes.
2.5 Money and Financial Markets
We favor free-market banking, with unrestricted competition among banks and depository institutions of all types. Individuals engaged in voluntary exchange should be free to use as money any mutually agreeable commodity or item. We support a halt to inflationary monetary policies, the repeal of legal tender laws and compulsory governmental units of account.
2.6 Monopolies and Corporations
We defend the right of individuals to form corporations, cooperatives and other types of companies based on voluntary association. We seek to divest government of all functions that can be provided by non-governmental organizations or private individuals. We oppose government subsidies to business, labor, or any other special interest. Industries should be governed by free markets.
2.7 Labor Markets
We support repeal of all laws which impede the ability of any person to find employment. We oppose government-fostered forced retirement. We support the right of free persons to associate or not associate in labor unions, and an employer should have the right to recognize or refuse to recognize a union. We oppose government interference in bargaining, such as compulsory arbitration or imposing an obligation to bargain.
2.8 Education
Education, like any other service, is best provided by the free market, achieving greater quality and efficiency with more diversity of choice. Schools should be managed locally to achieve greater accountability and parental involvement. Recognizing that the education of children is inextricably linked to moral values, we would return authority to parents to determine the education of their children, without interference from government. In particular, parents should have control of and responsibility for all funds expended for their children’s education.
2.9 Health Care
We favor restoring and reviving a free market health care system. We recognize the freedom of individuals to determine the level of health insurance they want, the level of health care they want, the care providers they want, the medicines and treatments they will use and all other aspects of their medical care, including end-of-life decisions.
2.10 Retirement and Income Security
Retirement planning is the responsibility of the individual, not the government. We favor replacing the current government-sponsored Social Security system with a private voluntary system. The proper source of help for the poor is the voluntary efforts of private groups and individuals.
3.0 Securing Liberty
The protection of individual rights is the only proper purpose of government. Government is constitutionally limited so as to prevent the infringement of individual rights by the government itself. The principle of non-initiation of force should guide the relationships between governments.
3.1 National Defense
We support the maintenance of a sufficient military to defend the United States against aggression. The United States should both abandon its attempts to act as policeman for the world and avoid entangling alliances. We oppose any form of compulsory national service.
3.2 Internal Security and Individual Rights
The defense of the country requires that we have adequate intelligence to detect and to counter threats to domestic security. This requirement must not take priority over maintaining the civil liberties of our citizens. The Bill of Rights provides no exceptions for a time of war. Intelligence agencies that legitimately seek to preserve the security of the nation must be subject to oversight and transparency. We oppose the government’s use of secret classifications to keep from the public information that it should have, especially that which shows that the government has violated the law.
3.3 International Affairs
American foreign policy should seek an America at peace with the world and its defense against attack from abroad. We would end the current U.S. government policy of foreign intervention, including military and economic aid. We recognize the right of all people to resist tyranny and defend themselves and their rights. We condemn the use of force, and especially the use of terrorism, against the innocent, regardless of whether such acts are committed by governments or by political or revolutionary groups.
3.4 Free Trade and Migration
We support the removal of governmental impediments to free trade. Political freedom and escape from tyranny demand that individuals not be unreasonably constrained by government in the crossing of political boundaries. Economic freedom demands the unrestricted movement of human as well as financial capital across national borders. However, we support control over the entry into our country of foreign nationals who pose a threat to security, health or property.
3.5 Rights and Discrimination
We condemn bigotry as irrational and repugnant. Government should not deny or abridge any individual’s rights based on sex, wealth, race, color, creed, age, national origin, personal habits, political preference or sexual orientation. Parents, or other guardians, have the right to raise their children according to their own standards and beliefs.
3.6 Representative Government
We support electoral systems that are more representative of the electorate at the federal, state and local levels. As private voluntary groups, political parties should be allowed to establish their own rules for nomination procedures, primaries and conventions. We call for an end to any tax-financed subsidies to candidates or parties and the repeal of all laws which restrict voluntary financing of election campaigns. We oppose laws that effectively exclude alternative candidates and parties, deny ballot access, gerrymander districts, or deny the voters their right to consider all legitimate alternatives.
3.7 Self-Determination
Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of individual liberty, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to agree to such new governance as to them shall seem most likely to protect their liberty.
4.0 Omissions
Our silence about any other particular government law, regulation, ordinance, directive, edict, control, regulatory agency, activity, or machination should not be construed to imply approval.
What, specifically, are your objections to it?
We don’t need government to run a post office or to subsidize it. Totally privatize it and allow real competition.
While Paul is not presidential material, I think he gets a bad rap. He is all about freedom and protecting the constitution.
Ru Paul says this may have been the result of the US Government:
That is what you support. Trvthers are not just "my old aunt Bertha with 50 cats" fools, but do bad things and support our enemies.
Support him and support his insanity.
Ah, and I am sure his Jew-hatred is appreciated throughout the emerging Conservative movement.
“clearly not a conservative gathering”
It takes a large segment of people voting to get a representative straw poll, it takes only one, or at worst a few, progressive operatives posing as conservatives to cause false results to be reported for the poll.
Progressive say and do ANYTHING that forwards their ultimate cause every stinking day in this country.
OMG this is shocking.
Allen West 2012! Guaranteed Win!
I don’t need an update, they haven’t changed anything and I don’t have anything in common with these goals.
Here is the leftists agenda hidden behind the Libertarian Party curtain.
Libertarian Party Platform:
Throw open the borders completely; only a rare individual (terrorist, disease carrier etc.) can be kept from freedom of movement through “political boundaries”.
Homosexuals; total freedom in the military, gay marriage, adoption, child custody and everything else.
Abortion; zero restrictions or impediments.
Pornography; no restraint, no restrictions.
Drugs; Meth, Heroin, Crack, and anything new that science can come up with, zero restrictions.
Advertising those drugs, prostitution, and pornography; zero restrictions.
Military Strength; minimal capabilities.
Good to see you get that poison out!
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