Ron Paul: Why didn’t the north just buy the south’s slaves and free them that way? (Insults Lincoln)

Hot Air ^ | 3-31-10 | Hot Air.com Staff

[TitansAFC]

Ron Paul: Why didn’t the north just buy the south’s slaves and free them that way?

Getting down to the last two questions here…. Most people consider Abe Lincoln to be one of our greatest presidents, if not the greatest president we’ve ever had. Would you agree with that sentiment and why or why not?

No, I don’t think he was one of our greatest presidents. I mean, he was determined to fight a bloody civil war, which many have argued could have been avoided. For 1/100 the cost of the war, plus 600 thousand lives, enough money would have been available to buy up all the slaves and free them. So, I don’t see that is a good part of our history.....

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

Tell me more about these armed black militias. The only ones I can find reference to were formed in reaction to the Klan, to defend themselves. Of course, their mere existence was enough to drive whites crazy. Some of the earliest gun control laws in the US were directed at blacks. Mississippi actually had a law that made it illegal for a white man to loan a black man a knife.

[algernonpj]

If they wanted to avoid war, why didn’t they outlaw slavery on their own? Same reason there’s human smugglers today. Evil, greedy people.

Because Lincoln did not fight the Civil War to free the slaves. He fought it to 'save the union', i.e. establish the rights of the central government over those of the states.

Per Lincoln in a letter to Horace Greely:

"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. "

[Non-Sequitur]

"Why was Fort Sumter important? Because it guarded a major tariff-collecting facility in the harbor at Charleston. So long as the Union controlled it, the South would still have to pay Lincoln's oppressive tariffs."

In the first place, Charleston was not a major tariff collecting station in the best of times. In terms of dollars collected it was a fraction of New York and was only the third busiest in the South, trailing New Orleans by a considerable margin. In the second place, the 'tariff collection facility' was the U.S. Customs House in Charleston itself. Finally it's beyond my understanding how a handful of troops, bottled up in a fort a mile or more from the city of Charleston, nowhere near where ships were landing their cargo, could collect dollar one of tariff revenue, oppressive or otherwise. Perhaps you can explain that to us all?

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

...bottled up in a fort a mile or more from the city of Charleston

More like three and a half.

[algernonpj]

Lincoln didn’t give a tinkers damn about the Negro. He absolutely wanted to ship them and DID SHIP THEM to Liberia by the thousands. The War was not over slavery. It was over power and politics .Lincoln was a consummate hypocrite.

Absolutely correct. In his 6th debate with Douglas:

"I will say, then, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races--that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which will ever forbid the two races living together in terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together, there must be the position of superior and inferior. I am as much as any other man in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. "

[driftless2]

"a right to secede"

An interesting question that nobody wants to discuss at any depth. If you support the right of states to secede, then you mean ALL states and not just the ones allied with confederacy, am I right? That would mean my state, Wisconsin, and all other states have the right to premptorily secede. What are the consequences of having a country where any state is sovereign which of course makes the idea of a calling the U.S. a union absurd? If a group of people in Wisconsin decide to secede, what percentage of the state's population must they have to secede: a majority? two-thirds? a plurality? What if my state decides that it wants a totally Marxist government? You get my drift? When you declare that states are sovereign and have the right to secede at any time for any reason, you are declaring yourself for organized chaos.

[driftless2]

"slaves walked"

To echo your point, in the wake of Sherman's march to the sea, he found thousands of ex-slaves trailing in the wake of his army.

[Mears]

I’ll be damned——that’s a keeper for me.

[Non-Sequitur]

I knew that. What was I thinking?

[driftless2]

Secession had nothing to do with the war? Really? It had everything to do with it. If the southern states had not illegally seceded, THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN NO WAR!

[driftless2]

"dragged back"

What does the word union mean to you? What is the point of having a country where any state at any time can choose to leave peremtorily? Sorry for previous misspellings of peremtorily.

[driftless2]

I doubt that. No state can have any more constitutional rights than any other state.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

In his 6th debate with Douglas

Actually that's from the fourth debate, at Charleston.

What's interesting is that Douglas was more or less calling Lincoln a liar for stating these opinions, claiming that his real goal was negro citizenship.

[central_va]

That, sir, is the historical fact. It takes an idiot to deny the role slavery played in the South's actions. Are you going to keep acting like an idiot?

Slavery played a role, but you are mixing up cause and effect. The cause (or what some call "The Lost Cause") was to be free from the narrow minded, Yankee that wanted to create an empire. The effect was using the slave issue as the reason for leaving.

Lincoln symbolized that Empire, when elected that triggered the secession, it could have been about tulip bulbs. Any reason to get away from the Federal Maw. That is the way I see it. You can try to stuff your fantasy version down our throats, ain't gonna work.

Reading some of these posts, I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND the sentiment.

[driftless2]

"made a deal"

That's an "interesting" theory. If some nuts take over the government of my state of Wisconsin and declare us a sovereign country, then the federal government should be obligated to cede control of Fort McCoy, Camp Douglas, and other federal military installations to the Wisconsin nuts. Interesting.

[central_va]

not illegally seceded

Have you studied history? The Senate, I forget which year, voted down legislation making secession illegal! Secession is not addressed in the USC. Stupid Yankees didn't include it in the so-called reconstruction ammendments. Dumb arse Yankees can't even win right! LOL.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

The cause (or what some call "The Lost Cause") was to be free from the narrow minded, Yankee that wanted to create an empire. The effect was using the slave issue as the reason for leaving.

Gee, if only there was anything like the amount of documentation from the secession period that said that, instead of constantly talking about slavery, you might have a leg to stand on.

[the OlLine Rebel]

This goes back to my sunset argument.

I’m sure if earlier there had been a sunset law, e.g. all slavery shall be illegal in 1848, then the people back when would’ve made provision for preparing for that day, including the psychological factor of not spreading the feeling in the white (large farming) population that slavery was their due. They’d have to ramp down over time on slaves, and pick up some other way to compensate.

Pulling the rug out from under is pretty bad. Gradual abolition, as it were, would make it easier ultimately on all involved.

[algernonpj]

I stand corrected. The quote seems to be from both the fourth debate at Charleston and then the sixth debate at Quincy (where Lincoln states “This he [Douglas]quotes from me as being delivered at Charleston, and I believe correctly:— ........”).

4th debate:
http://www.bartleby.com/251/41.html
6th debate:
http://www.bartleby.com/251/61.html

[Onelifetogive]

I doubt they were all for sale.

Especially Sally Hemmings*, if you know what I mean.

*Yes, I realize that they were in different centuries. IT'S A JOKE!