TSA Ejects Oceanside Man from Airport for Refusing Security Check (No Touchy My Genitals)

Sign On San Diego ^ | 11/14/2010 | Sign On San Diego

[Dallas59]

SAN DIEGO — John Tyner won't be pheasant hunting in South Dakota with his father-in-law any time soon.

Tyner was simultaneously thrown out of San Diego International Airport on Saturday morning for refusing to submit to a security check and threatened with a civil suit and $10,000 fine if he left.

And he got the whole thing on his cell phone. Well, the audio at least.

The 31-year-old Oceanside software programmer was supposed to leave from Lindbergh Field on Saturday morning and until a TSA agent directed him toward one of the recently installed full-body scanners, Tyner seemed to be on his way.

[bvw]

There are many forms of radiation, and many ways in which they damage cells. Moreover which cells get damaged is important, which cells, which organs. The concept and use of REMs is a dangerous oversimplification, imo. I never liked the concept.

In instant case: we have NO experience with the long term biological effect of back-scatter x-rays and also none with devices that use the terahertz radiation. What has been done to calibrate the REM so far is modeling or various sorts.

The REM dosages you read of during an airline flight are not x-rays, they are cosmic rays. The two things do different kinds of damage. In fact the body may be more able to repair the damage from cosmic rays than a REM equivalent of x-rays, or terahertz radiation.

[DBrow]

You know, thinking about this a bit more, the sensors don’t even measure RAD or REM. If it’s a pocket pen, it’s the loss of charge in a little spring electrometer, as the radiation changes the charge the little quartz fiber moves and what you actually measure is the delta distance, which is turned into REM by the calibration of the scale.

And an electrical-type ion chamber measures picoamps of radiation-induced charge in air. A GM tube counts discharges, and the clicks are integrated.

A PIN diode measures current.

A TLD measures the thermally-induced glow in a crystal, CaF2 or LIF or similar, as the heat releases radiation-induced trapped electrons.

Outside of a calorimeter (I’ve used a graphite calorimeter at SATURN), I can’t think of a direct RAD or REM sensor. Even the calorimeter measures temperature, not radiation directly.

Off topic, sorry, all.

[sjmjax]

I wonder how many other purchases the federal government plans on using as a de facto waiver-of-rights?

My bet is they've already got some planned.

Your mandatory health insurance policy...

[MHGinTN]

HAH! That’s easy for you to say ..

[driftdiver]

“Try telling a cop he can’t search your car when you are pulled over.”

I have, reasonable cause comes into effect.

“The have the right to regulate almost any private enterprise”

No, they have the power. There is a difference between a right and power.

[Global2010]

I want to ask a question.

Do Muslim attired people get the same patting down as other passengers?

If not why?
If they claim Religious no pat zone why can't the rest of us do the same?

Catholic/Protestant/Charismatic/LDS ect.

Where is the human dignity factor.

[freedumb2003]

>>No, they have the power. There is a difference between a right and power.<<

In this context a distinction without a difference. They have the power, granted by the very Constitution you wish to misapply.

[driftdiver]

“Do Muslim attired people get the same patting down as other passengers?”

I’ve never seen one get any extra screening. They are too busy with the nun, 3 yr old, or grandma.

[Zuben Elgenubi]

Aw, don’t play dumb. Read #4.

[ex 98C MI Dude]

The airlines aren't doing the searches of the passengers; nor have they made travel upon/in their method of conveyance contingent upon such searches. The government is the one doing the searches and making travel via air contingent upon said search.

So it isn't about the airline getting regulated. The people getting scanned and groped aren't part of any airline (excepting, of course, flight crew (who are now as irritated as the rest of us)).

So your idea that ‘its as simple as that’ doesn't work. Even the TSA idiot made it plain. “You gave up alot of rights when you bought the ticket”.

Unfortunately, the black-robed lawyers now called judge will agree with you. They have been working on destroying the Constitution for years. But why make it easy.

Its about time someone stood up and said in a firm voice “NO”.

[DBrow]

“In fact the body may be more able to repair the damage from cosmic rays than a REM equivalent of x-rays, or terahertz radiation.”

Or both or all may cause hormesis.

For now I’ll go with what the health physics guys say about dose and its measurement, when comparing 15 KeV photons to the flight environment.

I’ve seen some flight spectra, there are loads of photons, from air interaction and also from the mass of the plane. I’m more concerned with the neutron flux (for NSEU, not human effects), though at a bit higher altitude.

[driftdiver]

“In this context a distinction without a difference’

There is a huge difference. The Govt has zero rights. Those are reserved for the people who will stand up and protect them.

“They have the power, granted by the very Constitution you wish to misapply.”

They have power which they abuse on a regular basis.

[DBrow]

Hey I’m a geek, OK, and sometimes I geek out. LOL Though Dean Kaman prefers the term “nerd”. Ha ha.

[Drago]

Outrage is spreading fast:
http://www.ourlittlechatterboxes.com/2010/11/tsa-sexual-assault.html

Interesting reading here:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security-222-2.html

[freedumb2003]

>>Do Muslim attired people get the same patting down as other passengers?<<

I have said it several times, but I have 3 threads on the same subject going so I am happy to repeat myself.

I intend to, this Thursday, opt out from the Porno-Vision scanner AND insist my manual procedure be the same as a muslim woman wearing a burka.

If I am refused, the legal fur shall indeed fly. I will have subpoena power so I will be able to get emails, directives, etc. It may not be successful, but if I can get everyone to do the same thing I might have a small positive effect on what, in this case, is the RIGHT to be treated equally under the law (which IS a RIGHT, enumerated in multiple places in the USC, the BOR and uncounted federal cases).

[bvw]

Not really, that kind of stuff is on target. If you can understand that you have to use different kinds of sensors to measure radiation, you can also understand that the body in whole, the systems of the body (like the deeper skin layers), the cells and the substructures within the cells all have variant responses to different kinds of radiation and even different dosings over time.

For example, human A is exposed exposed over a year to a daily low dosage of radiation. Human B is exposed to the same total but in bursts with a few hours between them. And Human C gets the whole dosage in one shot. All get the same Rem dosage for a year.

Both human A and human C end up healthy. Human C picks up some radiation-induced problem. Why? Because low dosages over time the body can handle in normal operation, and trauma level dosages cause the body's emergency systems to kick in to repair and limit the damage, but in the middle, the damages are too much over time for the normal metabolism, but too low for the emergency systems to kick in.

[patriot preacher]

It’s called the Fourth Amendment — start ASSERTING it. The TSA (and MOST Federal Agencies) go WAY too far in violating these “inalienable rights.” Americans should just STOP allowing such scans and searches, simply stating, “Without prejudice, based on the 4th Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of American, I decline to be allow a search of my person or possession without probably cause or a warrant presented.” If they THEN violate that, you have a CONSTITUIONAL question which may be tried and settled in Federal Courts. At least there is a HOPE that the system might one day get it right...One day...

[freedumb2003]

>>There is a huge difference. The Govt has zero rights. Those are reserved for the people who will stand up and protect them.<<

Whether they exist or not.

>>They have power which they abuse on a regular basis.<<

“Abuse” being a subjective term.

[kiryandil]

Of course, a moron like you won't have any comment on the fact that the Muslims are attempting to circumvent ANY of these TSA security measures by claiming "religious reasons".

Nah, you're more for the Police Staters looking at full body scans of little girls - excepting little Muslim girls, of course.

[laxcoach]

Lots of people refuse searches of their vehicles. They may end up with a legal fight at the end of the day, but they do it. I certainly would demand an explanation of probable cause.

When I teenager I respectfully refused search of my car in front of a lot of people. We had no drugs or alcohol, but I had a formal education and knew my rights. He pulled me aside and told me he could beat the sh-t out of me and claim I resisted arrest. I said it wouldn't change my answer. It wasn't that smart, granted. But I didn't get beat up and I didn't get searched.

Your "probably" answer, I dare say, is flat out wrong. There are too many cases that surround it. Giving a different reason won't make it constitutional

Regulation of commerce and warrantless searches without probable cause are completely different matters. They have nothing to do with each other.