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Vanity - Fracking - Need Info
ANGA ^ | 2/9/11 | Self

Posted on 02/09/2011 5:45:09 AM PST by lowtaxsmallgov

Sorry for the Vanity Post, need some help.

The Soros-funded anti-fracking propaganda film Gasland is being shown at a neighborhood school tonight, I was hoping someone could point me to some good scholarly discussion in support of the practice, not so much from an economic perspective but rather from a geological / environmental angle. Very easy to find a torrent of vehement anti-fracking material, not so easy to find anything pro-fracking.

The ANGA vid I’ve pointed to is almost scary, because at the end they say they’ll “make it right” if there is any environmental degradation. But that to me is kind of retrograde, “make it right” is the same phrase BP used. No one wants “make it right”, it shouldn’t go wrong in the first place.

Or should I skip the event entirely, and avoid the liberal swarm? The other choice is to go to a nearby sports bar and watch NCAAMB Georgetown vs. Syracuse and NHL Montreal vs. Boston.

?


TOPICS: Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Unclassified
KEYWORDS: chat; fracking; gasland; smdearfinancier; smearfinancier; soros; spookydude; vanity
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Any help would be appreciated.
1 posted on 02/09/2011 5:45:14 AM PST by lowtaxsmallgov
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To: lowtaxsmallgov; thackney; Abathar

PING!...........batter up!............


2 posted on 02/09/2011 5:46:53 AM PST by Red Badger (Whenever these vermin call you an 'idiot', you can be sure that you are doing something right.)
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To: lowtaxsmallgov

Thanks for expanding my vocabulary! I had to learn a new word to even know what you were talking about!


3 posted on 02/09/2011 5:47:48 AM PST by knittnmom (Save the earth! It's the only planet with chocolate!)
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To: lowtaxsmallgov

4 posted on 02/09/2011 5:49:12 AM PST by RandallFlagg (Let this chant follow BHO everywhere he goes: "You lie. You lie. You lie.")
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To: lowtaxsmallgov

I haven’t done a lot of research, but the information I have come across indicates the fracturing process takes place at depths well below the acquifer sources that the marxist greenies claim they are worried about.


5 posted on 02/09/2011 5:50:51 AM PST by SharpRightTurn (White, black, and red all over--America's affirmative action, metrosexual president.)
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To: lowtaxsmallgov

My suggestion... it’s propaganda, and you’ll have a damn hard time arguing with it regardless of your vocabulary, etc. Even if you were an industry SME you wouldn’t be able to convince these people of anything - you’d just be assaulted for being part of the problem.


6 posted on 02/09/2011 5:52:15 AM PST by TheZMan (Just secede and get it over with. No love lost on either side. Cya.)
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To: lowtaxsmallgov
I do some business in Pennsylvania, where the Marcellus formation represents one of the biggest natural gas deposits in the world. High pressure fracturing of shale rock and directional drilling allow for effecient and environmentally sound extraction. The companies I deal with are over the top when it comes to environemental responsibility.

Take a look at this website for some counter arguments to the Gasland hit piece: Marcellus Shale Coalition

7 posted on 02/09/2011 5:54:15 AM PST by PDMiller
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To: lowtaxsmallgov
I expect the reason you can't find a lot about fracking that is pro is that this info is proprietary. Maybe best to keep a low profile if you are fracking too. It really depends on what is used to frack the rock, water and ceramic beads don't do any harm, some minerals that make the water denser might sound scary to the earth mother crowd but really aren't a problem. Arguing with these people is pointless. They hate anyone who is sticking it to mother earth. I expect lawyers put out this stuff trying to get a class action suit set up if there is a higher than expected cancer rate, more redheaded babies, or any other phenomena in an area close to a fraced seam.
8 posted on 02/09/2011 5:56:08 AM PST by dblshot (Insanity - electing the same people over and over and expecting different results.)
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To: lowtaxsmallgov

It’s a tough problem because they don’t have any skin in the game.

If they have any doubts, they can take the position to just “ban it all” and NIMBY it because there’s no immediate downside to them if they are on the “ban wagon” and no perceivable upside if they support it.

Sure, it hurts us all in fuel prices, energy independence etc, but how do they feel it?

So they’re not likely to make a good selfish decision, much less a broad, thoughtful one.


9 posted on 02/09/2011 5:57:16 AM PST by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: lowtaxsmallgov

I just found the movie online - if you want a link, PM me.

Weird, Frack is a term used in the Battlestar/Caprica sci-fi tv shows - to substitute for the ‘bad F word’


10 posted on 02/09/2011 5:59:59 AM PST by libertarian27 (Ingsoc: Department of Life, Department of Liberty, Department of Happiness)
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To: dblshot

>> Maybe best to keep a low profile if you are fracking too.

We don’t seem to have so much problem with it here in Texas.

Landowners welcome those rework caravans. Fracking => more royalties.

If the easterners don’t want it, fine — let ‘em shiver in the dark! ;-)


11 posted on 02/09/2011 6:05:49 AM PST by Nervous Tick (Trust in God, but row away from the rocks!)
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To: Bigg Red

mark


12 posted on 02/09/2011 6:27:34 AM PST by Bigg Red (Palin in 2012)
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To: lowtaxsmallgov

Gasland is currently in rotation on one of the movie channels (HBO, I think). I watched it the other day and it is quite a sensational propaganda film. They show people lighting their tap water on fire as it comes out of the faucet because it has so many chemicals from the fracking that mixed with the well water. I really don’t know what to make of the film to be honest. I’d like more info also...


13 posted on 02/09/2011 6:32:17 AM PST by lwd
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To: lowtaxsmallgov
Any help would be appreciated.

Not sure how much help this is, but back in the late 70s/early 80s, a bunch of Oil companies came through the area where I lived(North east Ohio) and drilled a bunch of Berea formation gas wells. They also drilled a bunch of Clinton formation oil/gas wells and were fracking the formations then. Fracking is nothing new.

The Clinton wells were roughly 4-5000 feet and there were wells everywhere. No one had any burning faucets.

14 posted on 02/09/2011 6:33:40 AM PST by Malsua
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To: Nervous Tick

That’s one of the reasons I live in Texas! You hear CNOOC, China Offshore Oil Company is bidding on the BP Texas City refinery?


15 posted on 02/09/2011 6:35:53 AM PST by dblshot (Insanity - electing the same people over and over and expecting different results.)
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To: dblshot

>> You hear CNOOC, China Offshore Oil Company is bidding on the BP Texas City refinery?

Yep. It was just a matter of time, FRiend. As they perceive all those treasuries they own to be worth less, they are going to start cashing them in and buying hard assets in the US.

We can hold them off for a little while with political and legal maneuvering — but not forever.

Thankfully they haven’t started in on rural land — yet. When they do, Katie bar the door.


16 posted on 02/09/2011 6:46:20 AM PST by Nervous Tick (Trust in God, but row away from the rocks!)
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To: dblshot; Upstate NY Guy; Hush44

So, the best thing to do is what exactly? I’m hearing defeatism, mostly, and not a lot of direction to good information in support of fracking.

We live on the Upper East Side of Manhattan, not a lot of fracking here. A poster was put up in our building by a lib neighbor. She has a weekend place in Bershire County MA, we have one nearby in Columbia County NY. Fracking is a pretty big deal upstate. New York State - the entire country, actually - needs the benefits that NG fracking could provide, the last thing the upstate economy needs is to be crippled even more by City libtards.

It seems to me that if free markets had any say NG would be the #1 energy source of the USA. Domestic, abundant, clean, cheap - how good is that? But how do we get to that if we keep ceding ground, this time in the fracking debate? They lie, and we don’t call them out?

I feel like we lose a lot of debates to the libs for the wrong reasons - they know they have to work harder, and be more deceptive, because they know they’re wrong. On the other hand we just hope the facts will win on their own.


17 posted on 02/09/2011 6:55:19 AM PST by lowtaxsmallgov (This Administration has absolutely no idea how to grow an economy)
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To: lowtaxsmallgov
It mostly depends on what is used in the hydraulic fracking fluids. Some of these "proprietary" mixes you wouldn't want spilled above ground near your favorite fishing hole, so they shouldn't be forced deep into the ground either, IMHO.

Conservatives laugh at the Greenies for sequestering CO2 that later carbonates ground water and causes other problems, so why would we allow something toxic forced into the ground to help extract gas/oil?

18 posted on 02/09/2011 7:07:04 AM PST by DTogo (High time to bring back the Sons of Liberty !!)
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To: lowtaxsmallgov
These are greedy scumbag lawyers trying to create another “Asbestos” like cash cow.

Most of the gas that has migrated into ground water has been doing so for Millennium. It's similar to the Gulf of Mexico. For centuries, Oil seeped out of the Sea floor naturally, mainly because the formation pressures kept building as it migrated to the surface. (Boyles Law.)

Since we have been drilling there, those pressures have been reduced and the involuntary Oil leakage from the Sea floor has mostly stopped entirely.

Fracking is a safe method of raising production potential and has is the primary reason why the Oil companies can find enough profit to keep drilling. If Fracking were to be banned, most modern drilling would cease. Simply because the yield would not justify the huge expense of drilling.

Finally, there are systems and practices in place that make it virtually impossible for the gas from over 5,000 feet below the surface to work it's way to the surface. Fracking only effects an area around the Well bore in a 50 to 100 foot radius and cannot possibly cause what these idiot Green Marxists claim.

19 posted on 02/09/2011 7:09:14 AM PST by PSYCHO-FREEP (Patriotic by Proxy! (Cause I'm a nutcase and it's someone Else's' fault!....))
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To: lowtaxsmallgov

Good video with data and informative animation about the process:

http://www.oerb.com/Default.aspx?tabid=336


20 posted on 02/09/2011 7:11:56 AM PST by T-Bird45 (It feels like the seventies, and it shouldn't.)
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To: lowtaxsmallgov
As noted in original post, the anti fracking film is being shown at a school. The indoctrination of our kids is ongoing, not long ago they were showing Earth in the Balance. I believe it is vital that we talk to our kids and explain reality. I probably spend more time outside than your average American, given that I have horses and big dogs, so I want clean air and water as much as anyone. Just look at the difference in pollution between poor countries and rich countries and you have to conclude that rich is better for the environment than poor.
21 posted on 02/09/2011 7:13:17 AM PST by dblshot (Insanity - electing the same people over and over and expecting different results.)
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To: lowtaxsmallgov

Don’t bother attending unless you can stand to be in the same room as people who would believe baloney like this film. You can rent the video. It is a total fake. The folks in Dish, TX (a 2 mile square community) that mostly moved there AFTER the gas drilling and pipelines were there said in their health survey that they were mostly healthy. You can google it.

Fracking has been around for 60 years. The head of our state DEP (PA) said there has never been an incident of fracking causing water pollution. It is used in drilling WATER wells as well as gas wells. Haliburton recently decided to release info on its fracking fluids.
They are using stuff from the GRAS (generally accepted as safe) list - - things you might find in salad dressing or tooth paste, etc.

What is bad is injection of any nasty stuff into underground wells for disposal. It can come back to haunt you.

Fracking fluids can be evaporated resulting in distilled water and a small amount of solids.
The “chemicals” in fracking fluids amound to less than 10%
of the total volume of frack water. Also frack water can be reused to frack another well.

Not sure if you have read about it here, but both NM and TX have suffered freezing temperatures and this has caused power outages and lack of natural gas to heat homes. Some have been without heat for over a week.

The same people who don’t want nuclear, don’t want oil drilling, don’t want coal and don’t want nat gas should turn off their electricity at least 3/4 of a day and only use “green energy.”


22 posted on 02/09/2011 7:21:44 AM PST by finnsheep
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To: DTogo
You are simply ignorant and have no understanding of the physics behind this process. Yet you are forming a very opinionated stance, based on that gross ignorance. Which is more than wrong.......

The Laws of Physics behind this process, guarantee that those “toxic” (Liberal terminology) chemicals you claim are injected into the ground, are already there and have been there for Millions of years. They simply use them because they are already compatible with the formation. They also get every square ounce of those “toxic” chemicals back to the surface because they blend with the Oil and gas that comes to the surface naturally, due to the Pressure gradient of the formation. Due to your gross lack of understanding, this is all the further I can explain this process to you. I would be glad to clear up any further misconceptions you most likely have, but you will have to let me know what those are.

23 posted on 02/09/2011 7:23:43 AM PST by PSYCHO-FREEP (Patriotic by Proxy! (Cause I'm a nutcase and it's someone Else's' fault!....))
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To: lowtaxsmallgov

Gasland the Movie: How much to believe?
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6635 “a site called Energy in Depth has a whole page of material under the title Debunking GasLand”


24 posted on 02/09/2011 7:27:33 AM PST by anglian
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To: lowtaxsmallgov

I just got done watching it....Boy....I don’t know.


25 posted on 02/09/2011 7:47:31 AM PST by libertarian27 (Ingsoc: Department of Life, Department of Liberty, Department of Happiness)
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP
My opinion, however "ignorant" you may think, stands.

.5% of 10000 gallons of injected hydraulic fracking fluid is 50 gallons of additives. Which of these additives "are already there and have been there for Millions of years?" Which ones would you allow a corporation to pour into your favorite fishing hole with the guarantee that "They also get every square ounce of those “toxic” chemicals back to the surface?"

I'm all for drilling and becoming energy independent with an "all-of-the-above" approach, but the long-term impacts also need to be considered.

26 posted on 02/09/2011 8:05:03 AM PST by DTogo (High time to bring back the Sons of Liberty !!)
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To: lowtaxsmallgov

Fracking’s biggest issue is dealing with the contaminated waste water.. if it is not captured and processed properly it can do some serious damage to watershed etc. However provided it is being done properly it is far safer and less ecologically impacting than other things such as coal mining etc.

Still over 2000 miles of streams and rivers in PA alone that are deemed “unsuitable for human contact” thanks to acid mine runoff... a 100% human caused problem, and one that we can solve.. and no one is really doing jack about it because its not politically advantageous to whip folks up over a real threat to their lives when there isn’t a corporation to attack for it.


27 posted on 02/09/2011 8:13:01 AM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: dblshot

Its not what is used to frack the rock that is the problem as much as capturing and cleaning once the rock is fracked.. natural gas is not the only chemical that winds up released when you use this process.. all sorts of other heavy metals and nasties get released too and must be properly handled.


28 posted on 02/09/2011 8:16:24 AM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: lowtaxsmallgov

Only info we need in NE Pennsylvania is economic. If youns all got enough (or even too much) money, keep the gasmen out. Otherwise, drill, baby, drill.


29 posted on 02/09/2011 8:35:41 AM PST by flowerplough (Thomas Sowell: Those who look only at Obama's deeds tend to become Obama's critics.)
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To: Red Badger; lowtaxsmallgov

I recommend looking at the American Petroleum Institute and Haliburton. They have information for the layman and even some dumbed down enough for congress.

http://www.api.org/policy/exploration/hydraulicfracturing/index.cfm

http://www.halliburton.com/public/projects/pubsdata/Hydraulic_Fracturing/index.html


30 posted on 02/09/2011 9:07:58 AM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer (biblein90days.org))
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To: DTogo
I wouldn't want octane, butane or the other liquids already present in these formation in my fishing hole either. But they have nothing to do with each other. These formations are far below the water supply.
31 posted on 02/09/2011 9:11:48 AM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer (biblein90days.org))
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To: DTogo
And my original claim that you are painfully ignorant, still stands.

Every chemical you listed except for Citric Acid is found in Oil. They separate the sulfur, chlorides, chemicals and water at the refinery level. They then distribute these “toxic” chemicals for industrial use and reuse.

And, as far as spilling them into your “fishing hole”, they have 3 different protective and tightly sealed well casing levels that insure against the production fluids ever leaking into the ground water at upper levels or at the surface.

It is also a fact that all the Frack Fluids are recovered and separated for recovery when the oil and those fluids are allowed to flow to the surface.

If you cannot understand this simple process in the means that I have described to you, from someone who is a Petroleum Drilling engineer and Consultant for over 30 years, then you are not only ignorant, you are an ass.

32 posted on 02/09/2011 9:28:59 AM PST by PSYCHO-FREEP (Patriotic by Proxy! (Cause I'm a nutcase and it's someone Else's' fault!....))
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To: thackney
This may become our worst nightmare Thack.

These are the same lies and false BS, similar to the ignorance and misinformation that ALgore spewed in his movie, yet the public believed every unsubstantiated word of it. And like Gore's movie, they are brainwashing and indoctrinating our schools with this propaganda.

The EPA will likely create a paperwork nightmare for every well we try to even consider drilling in the coming months.

33 posted on 02/09/2011 9:39:23 AM PST by PSYCHO-FREEP (Patriotic by Proxy! (Cause I'm a nutcase and it's someone Else's' fault!....))
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP

Algore’s movie was completely debunked - hoping that this movie will be too...it interviews residents near the wells and the industry spokespeople aren’t shown in a good light...whether the pertinent clips were left on the cutting room floor - it didn’t look good.

Have you seen this documentary?
Are the residents in this movie exaggerating?
Looking for answers.......


34 posted on 02/09/2011 9:57:31 AM PST by libertarian27 (Ingsoc: Department of Life, Department of Liberty, Department of Happiness)
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP
If you cannot understand this simple process in the means that I have described to you, from someone who is a Petroleum Drilling engineer and Consultant for over 30 years, then you are not only ignorant, you are an ass.

That explains your attitude.

35 posted on 02/09/2011 10:00:19 AM PST by DTogo (High time to bring back the Sons of Liberty !!)
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To: libertarian27
This compares to the story of Chicken Little. These people are running on hype, complete stupidity and ignorance.

This thing is staged and choreographed according to a master agenda. These “industry spokespeople” are nothing of the sort.

All wells that are permitted by State Law, must conform to legal lines, plus or minus 150 feet, documented and tested safety equipment, staged well casing procedures, also documented, sealed and tested. There are also required blowout/spill prevention equipment that is tested, certified and closely monitored.

The extreme cost of cleaning up a spill or contamination event is our worst nightmare in this industry. We go to great length to insure that it cannot happen. We also closely monitor the drilling rigs and crews to insure that they are operating in a safe manner.

To sum up your question about the residents “exaggerating”, they are also plants or operatives. Or, they belong to a minority who are bitter because they get no mineral rights or share in the royalties from the wells near their homes.

36 posted on 02/09/2011 10:14:41 AM PST by PSYCHO-FREEP (Patriotic by Proxy! (Cause I'm a nutcase and it's someone Else's' fault!....))
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To: DTogo

ROFLMAO!


37 posted on 02/09/2011 10:18:50 AM PST by PSYCHO-FREEP (Patriotic by Proxy! (Cause I'm a nutcase and it's someone Else's' fault!....))
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP
To sum up your question about the residents “exaggerating”, they are also plants or operatives. Or, they belong to a minority who are bitter because they get no mineral rights or share in the royalties from the wells near their homes.

Do you think those clips, where they were lighting up their kitchen sink water faucets on fire, were set-up tricks for the camera?

I don't know....Looking for answers....looks like something is wrong-somewhere.

38 posted on 02/09/2011 10:25:04 AM PST by libertarian27 (Ingsoc: Department of Life, Department of Liberty, Department of Happiness)
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To: thackney
even some dumbed down enough for congress.

Ha!!....there ain't no way...Sheila Jackson Lee, Al Franken, et al..get's this!!

39 posted on 02/09/2011 10:32:28 AM PST by Osage Orange (MOLON LABE)
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To: DTogo
Not to mention knowledge and reacting to facts not hysteria.
40 posted on 02/09/2011 10:36:58 AM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer (biblein90days.org))
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To: Osage Orange
For some of congress would have been better stated.

I don't know how Sheila Jackson Lee manges to breath having only two brain cells. One is used for locating TV cameras, the other to make noise.

41 posted on 02/09/2011 10:41:59 AM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer (biblein90days.org))
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP

OK, Found a few items:

http://cogcc.state.co.us/library/GASLAND%20DOC.pdf
Gasland Correction Document (10/29/2010)
Because an informed public debate requires accurate information, the COGCC has corrected several errors in Gasland’s portrayal of Colorado incidents.

http://www.energyindepth.org/tag/gasland/
EID to the Academy: Consider GasLand’s “Many Errors, Inconsistencies, Outright Falsehoods”


42 posted on 02/09/2011 10:42:53 AM PST by libertarian27 (Ingsoc: Department of Life, Department of Liberty, Department of Happiness)
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To: libertarian27
I pointed out earlier, that oil and gas was originally discovered from natural flows at the surface. There has been oil and gas found in surface water supplies for thousands or millions of years.

Hydrogen Sulfide gas from bacteria, in sufficient amounts will also burn in water. There may be actual water wells in the area that have dissolved methane in them and they are actually able to burn. But this is not the likely result from fracking or drilling. (See # 19, which explains this better.)

There are also entire lakes in Africa that have literally exploded from the release of methane and H2S gas in the water. And the formation of that gas was entirely natural.

43 posted on 02/09/2011 10:46:42 AM PST by PSYCHO-FREEP (Patriotic by Proxy! (Cause I'm a nutcase and it's someone Else's' fault!....))
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To: libertarian27
But more disturbing and wrong is the fact that this propaganda is already being indoctrinated in our schools.

Albeit completely false, does not matter to these people. The end result justifies the means (or better said, lies.)

44 posted on 02/09/2011 11:02:11 AM PST by PSYCHO-FREEP (Patriotic by Proxy! (Cause I'm a nutcase and it's someone Else's' fault!....))
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP
But more disturbing and wrong is the fact that this propaganda is already being indoctrinated in our schools.

Absolutely, same happened with glowball warming and the new spew coming out 'story of stuff'

It is up to all of us to seek out the information to differentiate fact from fiction, documentary from pseudo-documentary.

Get the information out in a comprehensible fashion, like 'the great global warming swindle' did....that took much wind out of their sails....then the e-mail leaks. However there are still people out there and in the MSM that believe nicely packaged stories.

Long road ahead....long road ahead....

45 posted on 02/09/2011 2:33:56 PM PST by libertarian27 (Ingsoc: Department of Life, Department of Liberty, Department of Happiness)
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To: flowerplough; lowtaxsmallgov

“This time last year, Eric Klinger, 19, made his living delivering pizzas. His friend, Matt Bartholomew, 20, worked in a factory that manufactured pharmaceutical products. Now, after a six-month course, they work for Halliburton, driving trucks, hauling supplies and doing some manual labor at natural gas drilling sites. They both started at salaries of between $45,000 and $55,00 a year — higher than the wages of most Pennsylvanians, according to U.S. census data. “Nothing wrong with that,” Klinger said with a laugh. Added Bartholomew: “The company that we’re in with, they’re saying 30 to 40 years they’ll be here. So...”


46 posted on 02/09/2011 3:57:57 PM PST by flowerplough (Thomas Sowell: Those who look only at Obama's deeds tend to become Obama's critics.)
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bfl


47 posted on 04/03/2011 5:43:00 PM PDT by raygunfan
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I’ll check out those links above. I just watched the film and is was pretty disturbing. I’m a pretty staunch conservative, but I also know that there is a lot of greed out there, and when coupled with the $$$’s involved in this.....some companies wouldn’t give a crap about your families health. If the part about the natural gas companies being exempt from the clean air/water regulations is true...that probably tells you there may be more to this than just propaganda.

Hope I’m wrong.


48 posted on 07/06/2012 3:31:14 PM PDT by PsyOps
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To: PsyOps

I think I was wrong. From my hero...”Trust BUT VERIFY”.....


49 posted on 07/10/2012 5:33:53 PM PDT by PsyOps
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To: DTogo

“why would we allow something toxic forced into the ground to help extract gas/oil? “

The last I checked gas/oil were toxic.


50 posted on 07/10/2012 5:50:51 PM PDT by Rebelbase (The most transparent administration ever is clear as mud.)
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