Skip to comments.Founding Fathers Were 'Guys Who Didn't Give Women the Vote and Let Slavery Stand' (ABC)
Posted on 07/03/2011 4:04:58 PM PDT by chessplayer
ABC's "This Week" began its Independence Day weekend program with a segment that echoed Time magazine's cover story questioning whether the Constitution matters anymore.
After historian Douglas Brinkley said, "We shouldn't act like [the Founding Fathers] were somehow omnipotent," ABC's John Donvan responded, "They were not gods, they were guys - guys who didn't give women the vote and let slavery stand"
So, John Donovan is a POS. What’s new? He’s a news reader right?
ABC continues to pursue the audience they deserve.
What a bunch of idiots.
</illustrating the absurdity of judging people who lived 250 years ago by today's standards>
Yes I agree. I have never seen such blatant outright attacks against the Founding Fathers as I’ve seen this 4th of July.
30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the “common man.”
lets see....slavery..an institution worldwide for 1000’s of years....is virtually wiped from the face of the planet within a hundred years of the Founders’ writings and actions.
As usual with libs..you have to turn it 180 degrees to see where they are headed....and the olgarchic powers-that-be are just pissed its all gone...
Biased belching and vomit from the lectern of the "voice of the left" again?
Gosh, the venom of the far left is actually considered a soothing water of relief of the pain for some I see.
The only person more ignorant than those in the mainstream media is the man they consistently cover for; Pres. Barack Obama.
What an A-hole. At the time they created our constitution, every other nation on earth except Switzerland was ruled by a monarch, ruling by divine right,, or a tribal leader. Any leader, anywhere on earth could have you executed at will. The idea of the people being the just repository of all power, and that the rights of the individual came first was unknown in 1776.
What the founders did was so revolutionary that it is lost on uneducated types like the one who said this.
It is mind bending to look at what they did and find the few minor imperfections. Imprefections for which they laid the groundwork for fixing.
The jackass should be ashamed.
Many of the founding fathers tried to eliminate slavery but knew they would never get the southern states to go along if they tried to ban it.
People all over the world work on a “room and board” system.....same system as slavery. My mom did. My aunts did.
A##clowns know history?
remember when they at least tried to be subtle?
“Yes I agree. I have never seen such blatant outright attacks against the Founding Fathers as Ive seen this 4th of July.”
combined with the Time article, and Fareed Zakaria telling us how Iceland is scrapping their consititution and writing a new one with input from twitter.
There is a literal agenda here. In Obama’s second term, they will take the first crisis as a chance to free themselves from having to pretend they obey the constitution. A dollar collapse, another 9/11,, and they will give it the big try.
“guys who didn’t women the vote”
and who, at the time, had given women the vote?
Women had more freedom in the Plymouth colony than they had in England at the time.
It is not generally understood that the United States made the trafficking in slaves illegal in 1808. It contributed ships to patrol the coast of Africa to stop the trade. Unfortunately, American slavers had the fastest ships afloat, particularly the Baltimore clippers and New York sloops. One of the fastest ships was the Wanderer which flew the pennant of the New York Yacht Club. They had, of course, a willing market in southern ports.
Discredit the founding fathers to make the Tea Party and Constitutionalists look bad, now that “we the people”, or at least some of us, understand what those remarkable founding fathers were able to accomplish.
BO is Hitler!
See tagline. p> But the truth is that the J-School long ago surpassed the College of Education as the producer of ignorant graduates.
Given a contest between network anchors and the average FReeper on knowledge of American History (or any other subject, really), I would put my money on the FReepers.
Or, for that matter, any random selected group of auto mechanics...
"Journalists" are among the dumbest single groups in the country.
Also, this reeks of Howard Zinn’s Marxist tome on the History of the US.
Hey ABC....and your dozen or so remaining viewers....f**k yourselves.
There is an element of truth to what ABC said. The founding fathers lived around the same period as William Wilberforce but they did not summon the moral courage to deal with the problem of slavery squarely. The Royal Navy had spent several decades fighting against slavery before the critical mass of public opinion formed in the United States to call for its abolition. (Meanwhile, both Washington, Hamilton, Jefferson and Adams kept slaves).
The prime movers for the abolition of slavery in the West were not the Americans, but the British.
It is also instructive to note that the United States was the only major Western power or nation in the Western Hemisphere that had to fight a war to abolish slavery. This is sad, but it is a fact. Does that mean that the US is evil? No. What this tells us is that your history, just like the history of many other nations is a mixed bag.
That should make July 4, a time for celebration and sober reflection. There is a fault I see in conservatives - the inability to accept that either their nation or their revered figures did any wrong. This is mirrored by a more serious fault in liberals - the inability to accept that America is a force for good.
Interesting point. Monrovia, Africa was named after James Monroe. It was intended to be the recipient of returning slaves after slavery was ended...they failed...but it was inevitable, as was womens suffrage ...my point is, the free people allowed by the Constitution would never permit either situation to occur for long.
And Paul persecuted Christians and Peter denied Christ and Moses was a murderer.
Well, I am willing to fight and die for my beliefs, the same beliefs that our Founding Fathers passed down to all of us.
Those ass-hats should ask themselves....... are THEY willing to fight and die for their beliefs? Because quite frankly, the way things are going, that singular question may be the first thing they will need to consider when they get out of bed in the morning.
I think its deeper that discrediting TEA. They hate that they have to pretend their agenda is somehow in line with the Constitution. Their Holy Grail is to somehow get free from that.
They want an “update” and they are starting groundwork. These “peoples movements” all around the world,,, they are planning one here. The ultimate end run is to rewrite the constitution. Obama must be stopped. In a second term,, he intends to do it. We all need to look at what we see,,, and not believe that would never actually do it.
Slavery existed long after the US abolished it and long before there was a US. To somehow blame the US for slavery is absurd. Slavery is still being practiced in Africa and some Muslim countries. I never hear the leftists whine about it.
And Progressives were the guys who exterminated 6 million Jews in Europe because they thought they knew what was best for everyone else. Progressives killed 2 million Ukrainians during the early 1930s because they believed that the hard work of Ukrainian farmers should be punished, and the fruits of their labor be denied them and redistributed to everyone else. And Progressives killed 40 million Chinese under Mao in order to 'enlighten' them on the merits [sic] of progressive theory. And currently, Progressives are destroying the greatest nation and the greatest creator of wealth this world has ever known.
ABC and TIME should take this tour
And while this is definitely a Latino thing, it is also, we should say, an American thing and here is why. Call it a Jackie Robinson moment, to borrow a lesson from sports. And from the man whose break through into the majors was good for all of us, but the warm feeling inside, the one that gets you right there, really belonged to those who could say he is one of our own.
John Donovan, ABC News Correspondent, on the confirmation of Supreme Court justice Sonya Sotomayor
ABC’s Nightline Celebrates Sotomayor’s ‘Jackie Robinson Moment’
Aug 7, 2009 ABC’s ‘Nightline’ on Thursday celebrated Sonia Sotomayor’s ... Correspondent John Donvan failed to identify the liberal bent of the ...
You may not be seeing what I see. I see conservatives who understand that people are flawed but also notice the characteristics of a liberal attack. You see we notice that liberals (especially the MSM) avoid attacking the ideas and concepts that they cannot compete with and attack the messenger. They require that the messenger has to be pure and right about all things in order for their message to be without flaws. It is a tactic that most of us have grown to lose our patience over.
Oh and welcome to FR and when you generalize about conservatives you are likely wrong so this may not be the best place for you.
Had they had adequate educations in the history of their country, they might have read Jefferson's Autobiography, especially that portion which states: "The first establishment in Virginia which became permanent was made in 1607. I have found no mention of negroes in the colony until about 1650. The first brought here as slaves were by a Dutch ship; after which the English commenced the trade and continued it until the revolutionary war. That suspended...their future importation for the present, and the business of the war pressing constantly on the (Virginia) legislature, this subject was not acted on finally until the year 1778, when I brought a bill to prevent their further importation. This passed without opposition, leaving to future efforts its final eradication."
Jefferson also observed:
"Where the disease [slavery] is most deeply seated, there it will be slowest in eradication. In the northern States, it was merely superficial and easily corrected. In the southern, it is incorporated with the whole system and requires time, patience, and perseverance in the curative process."
He explained that, "In 1769, I became a member of the legislature by the choice of the county in which I live [Albemarle County, Virginia], and so continued until it was closed by the Revolution. I made one effort in that body for the permission of the emancipation of slaves, which was rejected: and indeed, during the regal [crown] government, nothing [like this] could expect success."
One more quotation, cited in David Barton's work on the subject of the Founders and slavery, which also cites the fact that there were laws in the State of Virginia which prevented citizens from emancipating slaves, (can be found at Barton's web site shown later herein)is this one from Jefferson:
"The whole commerce between master and slave is a perpetual exercise of the most boisterous passions, the most unremitting despotism on the one part, and degrading submissions on the other. Our children see this and learn to imitate it; for man is an imitative animal. This quality is the germ of all education in him. From his cradle to his grave he is learning to do what he sees others do. If a parent could find no motive either in his philanthropy or his self-love for restraining the intemperance of passion towards his slave, it should always be a sufficient one that his child is present. But generally it is not sufficient. . . . The man must be a prodigy who can retain his manners and morals undepraved by such circumstances. And with what execration should the statesman be loaded who permits one half the citizens thus to trample on the rights of the other. . . . And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep for ever. . . . The Almighty has no attribute which can take side with us in such a contest. . . . [T]he way, I hone [is] preparing under the auspices of Heaven for a total emancipation."
For an excellent and factual record of the Founders' views on the matter of slavery (especially those of Washington and Jefferson} visit David Barton's site (wallbuilders).
A review of the factual, written history of the period in order to understand the tremendous contributions of the Founders to the "extinction" of slavery in America is essential to any meaningful discussion. Barton has has utilized the record in writing that exists to inform any who wish to arm themselves with knowledge. One source he does not quote, I believe, is the famous "Speech on Conciliation" by Edmund Burke before the British Parliament, wherein he admonished the Parliament for its Proposal to declare a general enfranchisement of the slaves in America.
Burke rather sarcastically observed that should the Parliament carry through with the proposed Proposal: "Slaves as these unfortunate black people are, and dull as all men are from slavery, must they not a little suspect the offer of freedom from that very nation (England) which has sold them to their present masters? from that nation, one of whose causes of quarrel with those masters is their refusal to deal any more in that inhuman traffic?" He continued: "An offer of freedom from England would come rather oddly, shipped to them in an African vessel, which is refused an entry into the ports of Virginia or Carolina, with a cargo of three hundred Angola negroes. It would be curious to see the Guinea captain attempting at the same instant to publish his proclamation of liberty and to advertise his sale of slaves."
Ahhh, how knowledge of the facts can alter one's opinion of the revisionist history that has been taught for generations in American schools (including its so-called "law schools"!!!
Human beings are allotted ONLY A TINY SLIVER OF TIME ON THIS EARTH. Each finds the world and his/her own community/nation existing as it is. If lawyers and judges educated themselves (in this day of the Internet) on the history of civilization and America's real history, and if they used that knowledge and the resulting understanding, to do as much on behalf of liberty for ALL people as did Thomas Jefferson and America's other Founders, the world in the next century would be a better place.
Remember, Thomas Jefferson was only 33 years old when he penned our Declaration of Independence which capsulized a truly revolutionary idea into a simple statement that survives to this day to inspire people all over the world to strive for liberty!
Before they slam the Founders in their pronouncements, these ignorant journalists should read the prolific writings on the founding period for a first-hand knowledge of their contributions. In their lifetimes, he might then be qualified to speak about them.
“It is also instructive to note that the United States was the only major Western power or nation in the Western Hemisphere that had to fight a war to abolish slavery”
And did your beloved England import large numbers of Africans and base their local economy on it? Or could it be it was a position that didnt affect England much, but that would harm competitors?
If by sober reflection on the 4thm, you think im going to sit down and reflect on Americas “flaws” you are sadly mistaken. BTW,, who SOLD the africans to the traders? Abolish slavery in Africa today and then lecture us.
And at the same time your beloved royal navy was fighting slavery,, they were forcibly enslaving American sailors at sea. Guess it all depends on your perspective.
You STILL have slavery Kleptocracy and Monarchy over in Africa. Fix that before you bitch about America on the 4th of July weekend,, A-hole.
And it was “white guys” who abolished slavery. And “white guys” who gave American women the vote. In 1787 slavery was still legal everywhere on earth IIRC. Had they not had the “horrible” 3/5ths compromise, the South would have had legal slavery continue way past 1863. And as the poster above pointed out, no more importation of slaves as of 1808. Pretty progressive for its time IMHO.
The Royal Navy conducted anti-slavery patrols because the UK already had an incredibly valuable slave empire in India, and any other slavery in the world was competition.
Non-U.S. slave ships flew the American Flag because after the war of 1812 the U.S was the one nation whose ships the British dared not stop and search.
Washington was indeed a slaveowner, and an unusually cruel one - until the revolution brought him into contact with free blacks. After that, his opinions radically changed and he arranged his will to free all of his commercial business slaves, and all of Martha's personnel servants upon her death.
Washington was not perfect by 2011 standards. By the standards of the eighteenth century he was a giant among giants.
It amuses me that the left will call the FF sexists racists unless they think they can cherrypick a FF quote to suggest statism or healthcare.
And you make me so mad i can’t believe it. Another thing for you here. Before you think England was on some holy crusade to end slavery,,,, tell us why they supported the south all they could during the civil war?
They tried as hard as they could for the slave holding south to win.
They arent the heroes you pretend they are. But we were,,,
Dunmore’s Proclamation of 1775 declared martial law and freedom for slaves.
The Brits needed a larger army so they suddenly changed course on slavery.
The writings of the Founding Fathers laid open the intellectual basis of individual freedoms...a completely NEW concept to the world trapped within monarchy and whom individuals were “subjects”..NOT Free Citizens.. Within their expositions the seeds of freedom they sowed birthed a world free from slavery within a hundred years.....
Sorry it wasn’t as fast as you’dve liked.
Don’t patronize America and Americans.
You’re on the wrong forum if you think that unintellectual nonsense is going to fly.