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Do you think we won the debt battle?

Posted on 08/02/2011 4:10:15 PM PDT by A Cyrenian

Did the conservatives come out on top on the debt issue?

I'm not going to pretend to be an expert. But I think the conservatives in the House of Representatives did a hell of a job. Considering the hand they were dealt.

The liberals control the Senate & Monkey ears Huessin. So we're down 2 - 0.

If we had control of the Senate and/or the presidency, I would had loved to see more.

But, with the current situation, I think we won. And I'm surprised there's not more celebration on Free Republic.

Have we been beaten down so much that we can't be excited about our accomplishments?

What do you think?


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: kleptocrats; planners; police; teachers; vanity
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To: 4mer Liberal

4merly Free


51 posted on 08/02/2011 4:49:50 PM PDT by sanjuanbob (Festina Lente)
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To: WatchOutForSnakes
The democrats have the senate and the white house and do not want what we want. That makes it more difficult to get everything done that you want to accomplish.

So the role of the GOP is to abide by what the white house dictates? I thought their role was to do the will of the people that elected them. Silly me.

The folks at PowerLine had a great quote from Churchill in an article recently saying:

When Lord Halifax and a handful of other influential members of the war cabinet were building support to seek peace terms with Hitler through the Italians, Churchill reminded them that “nations which went down fighting rose again, but those which surrendered tamely were finished.” The same may be said for the Republican Party today; if it surrenders to Obama, it may as well pack it in for good.

52 posted on 08/02/2011 4:51:38 PM PDT by Taggart_D
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To: bkopto
Big government and parasitism won. Freedom lost.

ditto

53 posted on 08/02/2011 4:53:10 PM PDT by Taggart_D
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To: A Cyrenian

NO!

We got hosed.

We also got hosed back when “We” had the presidency and both houses, so nothing has really changed.

At this point I expect “We the people” will continue to be hosed even if “Republicans/Conservatives” again retake the presidency and both houses.

There were no actual cuts in this deal!
Real cuts need to be made as quickly as the last ten years spending increases in order to amount to anything of substance.

I don’t see that happening without a dramatic and cataclysmic event, such as an open rebellion similar to the “Arab Spring”.
So BOHICA, and learn to enjoy our new status as a third world socialist kleptocracy.

Not that I am bitter or anything. ;-)


54 posted on 08/02/2011 4:55:04 PM PDT by Loyal Sedition (Loyal Sedition, often described as "To the right of Attila The Hun"!)
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To: A Cyrenian

My three year old son and unborn daughter really lost this battle. I pray it is my blood that will be shed for their freedom and not their own.


55 posted on 08/02/2011 4:55:09 PM PDT by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: A Cyrenian

“But I think the conservatives in the House of Representatives did a hell of a job.”

I would LOVE to believe this, really I would. If you mean the Tea Party conservatives that stood up against this deal and ultimately voted against it, I agree. If you mean leadership, they have proven that they are gutless and unwilling to fight for conservative principles.

We sent them there last November primarily to do 2 things:

1. Stop the out of control spending.

2. Repeal Obamacare-and short of a repeal at the very least de-fund it.

They fought for neither in this deal. They paid lip service to the “Cut, Cap and Balance” plan that was supported by almost the entire House GOP caucus and 66% of the American people, then they didn’t even force the Senate to VOTE on it. They allowed them to table it and quickly came up with a “compromise.”

“Cut, Cap & Balance” doesn’t really go far enough, but it would have been a good step in the right direction. But Boehner and the leadership showed that they weren’t really interested in fighting for REAL change. They were more afraid of being blamed if the govn’t “defaulted”, which was a lie from the beginning that no one in leadership ever challenged.

The right play would have been to hold the line on “Cut, Cap & Balance” and force them to either take it or not raise the debt ceiling. I know the media would have been all over them for that, but aren’t they already being accused of being “hostage takers?” The media will go after us no matter what, so why not get something substantive out of it?

No, this is not a win at all. This does nothing to curve spending. Boehner and Co. promised in the campaign to roll back spending to 2008 levels “for starters.” Now, they’re not even talking about doing that. They are allowing the $800 billion “1 time” stimulus of 2009 to be added permanently to the baseline. The so called cuts spoken of in this deal (if they ever materialize) are simply small reductions in the projected rate of growth in spending. They should be fighting to do away with the whole “base line budgeting” system that causes these people to lie to us by calling smaller spending increases cuts, but I saw none of that in this debate either.

As for Obamacare, there seems to be no concern whatsoever about de-funding it or fighting for its repeal. The American people still overwhelmingly support its repeal, but NOT ONE WORD was spoken about it by leadership. That tells me that they are just fine with Obamacare becoming the law of the land and making us into more of a socialist nation.

No, this is not a victory. In fact, I am more disheartened than I’ve been since the 2008 elections. These GOP leaders need to be replaced. That’s the only solution to this problem. We need to primary as many of them as possible and get new blood in there. Boehner needs to go and we need someone to replace him that actually GETS the fact that our republic is hanging by a thread.

Sadly, I don’t detect the outrage that is deserved at what just happened. Too many on our side are willing to go along with this media-driven narrative that it’s a “victory for the Tea Party” simply because we are now “talking” about cutting spending. I’ll grant that it’s a good thing that we have shifted the debate, but it doesn’t mean jack if it’s not followed up by REAL, SUBSTANTIVE spending cuts.

The only hope we have now is a presidential candidate that truly gets the need to cut spending and balance our budget and is willing to fight even his/her own party in congress to do it. Bush did the opposite. I think most of our candidates are ‘ruling class’ types just like Bush, so I doubt they will do anything different. So where does that leave us?


56 posted on 08/02/2011 4:59:32 PM PDT by lquist1
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To: A Cyrenian
All Obama ever wanted was to spend more money, he never cared where it came from, taxes or deficits, as long as he could spend more. Now Obama can spend trillions more increasing the deficit to $23 trillion.

He got what he wanted.

The Republicans claimed they wanted less spending, smaller government and reduced taxes. They got increased spending, bigger government and higher taxes.

Who do you think "won"?

57 posted on 08/02/2011 5:04:52 PM PDT by Prokopton
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To: A Cyrenian

Nope. The can got kicked down the road- maybe less than usual, but my opinion is that business as usual still reigns in DC. The deal, such as it is, doesn’t address the true problem- the government spends more than it takes in, and it will be doing so as long as it is able to do so.


58 posted on 08/02/2011 5:05:10 PM PDT by GenXteacher (He that hath no stomach for this fight, let him depart!)
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To: A Cyrenian

Compromise is for losers.


59 posted on 08/02/2011 5:07:21 PM PDT by clintonh8r (Happy to be represented by Lt. Col. Allen West (this tagline under review))
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To: A Cyrenian
This is a disaster of epic proportions. Given its Constitutional authority, the GOP-controlled House had the opportunity to hold the line on spending -- and to withhold all funding until the Senate and President accepted real cuts. But in their cowardice, the House GOP gave away their trump card and handed the Democrats a massive credit card that will not expire until after the 2012 elections. And there's not one dime of real cuts, just a mythical reduction in the projected rate of spending growth.

My children and grandchildren have been robbed of their inheritance. We lost, big time.

60 posted on 08/02/2011 5:07:21 PM PDT by Always A Marine
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To: A Cyrenian

The debt deal “does not put the U.S. on a sustainable fiscal path,” economists at Barclays Capital wrote in a note to clients, adding “weakness in U.S. growth has the potential to offset most of the savings claimed by the debt reduction package.”

Read more: http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2011/08/02/futures-fall-amid-economic-lingering-debt-concerns/#ixzz1TuxqKqaO

DOES THAT SOUND LIKE A YES VOTE. The sound you hear is the can being kicked down the road about 16 months when they (the D’s and the R’s) spend that 2 trillion bucks and have to fight this war again. I guess Ron Paul is still a moron huh?


61 posted on 08/02/2011 5:17:10 PM PDT by JohnD9207 (John McCain is a proud Ted Kennedy conservative!)
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To: A Cyrenian

The debt deal “does not put the U.S. on a sustainable fiscal path,” economists at Barclays Capital wrote in a note to clients, adding “weakness in U.S. growth has the potential to offset most of the savings claimed by the debt reduction package.”

Read more: http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2011/08/02/futures-fall-amid-economic-lingering-debt-concerns/#ixzz1TuxqKqaO

DOES THAT SOUND LIKE A YES VOTE. The sound you hear is the can being kicked down the road about 16 months when they (the D’s and the R’s) spend that 2 trillion bucks and have to fight this war again. I guess Ron Paul is still a moron huh?


62 posted on 08/02/2011 5:17:19 PM PDT by JohnD9207 (John McCain is a proud Ted Kennedy conservative!)
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To: A Cyrenian

Definitely no. A fox news poll shows a majority of respondents want a Constitutional Ammendment for a balanced budget. We have lost for sure because states that have this simply increase taxes along with spending to “balance” budgets. They argue increases are a must. Americans have stopped thinking again. This is very worrisome.


63 posted on 08/02/2011 5:18:50 PM PDT by momincombatboots (Look out Left Coast, we are coming and we have Bibles and Guns! LOL)
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To: Gena Bukin

Had the Rinos not committed hari kari and joined the communists in attacking the only other side in the effort, I would feel somewhat less resentful about the pitiful outcome. But never will I celebrate a “super congress” made up of these Democrats in the GOP and the communists in the DNC. That is a one party system.

You watch. The trolls who pretend to be Repulicans are going to keep business as usual with a one party system of their international Marxist ideal and they will continue to thumb their snotty noses at the American people who they openly and proudly deem are sub-human.

Funny, the Rinos fancy themselves royality being challenged by a bunch of lowly commoners tossing tea in the ocean. We know how that story ended for the royality.


64 posted on 08/02/2011 5:24:16 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: bushwon

65 posted on 08/02/2011 5:31:05 PM PDT by Recovering_Democrat
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To: A Cyrenian

Not yet.


66 posted on 08/02/2011 5:32:42 PM PDT by Chi-townChief
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To: A Cyrenian

Henceforth only 12 APPOINTED Congressmen will have any say on budget matters. 523 will not. 38 States will have only ornamental drones instead of representatives. The Democrat and Republican parties will have cemented their monopoly on power, as NO independent or third party Congressman will EVER be appointed.

Representative government on fiscal matters has just been abolished.

And you ask if this is a win?


67 posted on 08/02/2011 5:39:31 PM PDT by Psalm 144 (Voodoo Republicans: Don't read their lips - watch their hands.)
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To: A Cyrenian

You can call a shit sandwich a reuben, but it’s still a shit sandwich.


68 posted on 08/02/2011 5:39:31 PM PDT by AmusedBystander (The philosophy of the school room in one generation will be the philosophy of government in the next)
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To: A Cyrenian
But, with the current situation, I think we won. And I'm surprised there's not more celebration on Free Republic.

They don't call the GOP "the stupid party" for nothing, and you are it's mascot.

69 posted on 08/02/2011 5:44:48 PM PDT by JOAT
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To: DooDahhhh

70 posted on 08/02/2011 5:49:21 PM PDT by Brandonmark (2012: Our Hope IS Change!)
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To: WatchOutForSnakes

The “Super Congress” as you put it has no authority to do anything other than make recommendations. Anything they recommend has to be passed by a majority of the house and the senate.

************************

The Royal Congress thus limits the choices to those which they have approved. Like Soviet elections, you can choose between the their choices. This is an insiders’ coup d’etat.

38 States will be denied representation. 523 out of 535 Congressmen will be mere ornaments. There was never more clear and justified cause for nullification or secession.


71 posted on 08/02/2011 5:51:02 PM PDT by Psalm 144 (Voodoo Republicans: Don't read their lips - watch their hands.)
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To: A Cyrenian

There were some short-term political wins, and Obama comes out with a seriously damaged image. The deal will not be able to be evaluated until we hear who is on this super committee and what the results are. It is more than likely going to be bad for our side.

Additionally, this deal pretty much did nothing to address the debt or deficit problems. We basically removed a tablespoon of water out of an overflowing Olympic size pool.

Our side could have played a much stronger hand in this game, but instead both the gang of six and McConnell undercut the whole thing with their plans, and Boehner fell into the trap of being stuck in endless White House meeting and negotiating with himself. Whether it was intentional or not is the question.


72 posted on 08/02/2011 5:53:14 PM PDT by ilgipper (political rhetoric is no substitute for competence (Thomas Sowell))
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To: A Cyrenian

NO!

The Republican delude themselves.

They could have forced a major reduction in spending and they got very little cuts in spending in the current year. More smoke and mirrors.

The federal goverment owes itself (Federal Reserve) more than $1 trillion. This for printing all that money and watch them continue.

But I don’t trust Obama and he would have created more problems in the world economy by choosing who is paid.

We need a conservative Congress and President that will actually change things soon! Tea Party get busy!


73 posted on 08/02/2011 5:55:11 PM PDT by ADSUM (Democracy works when citizens get involved and keep government honest.)
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To: A Cyrenian

Nope.


74 posted on 08/02/2011 5:57:03 PM PDT by onemiddleamerican (FUBO and all your terrorist buddies)
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To: goodwithagun

My three year old son and unborn daughter really lost this battle. I pray it is my blood that will be shed for their freedom and not their own.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I understand what you mean, but I respectfully offer a small course correction:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFe63H_pyh4&feature=related


75 posted on 08/02/2011 5:57:18 PM PDT by Psalm 144 (Voodoo Republicans: Don't read their lips - watch their hands.)
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To: A Cyrenian

If we won the “budget battle”, the Axis forces won World War II.


76 posted on 08/02/2011 5:58:55 PM PDT by sport
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To: Taggart_D

The same may be said for the Republican Party today; if it surrenders to Obama, it may as well pack it in for good.

************************

There was no surrender. They are accomplices.

The whole question is whether WE will surrender.


77 posted on 08/02/2011 6:00:05 PM PDT by Psalm 144 (Voodoo Republicans: Don't read their lips - watch their hands.)
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To: lquist1

“Sadly, I don’t detect the outrage that is deserved at what just happened.”

Most people don’t really get it yet. Of those who do understand, most are smirking at the successful sabotage.

Very few presently recognize that this was not so much about money, but was principally a sly eradication of representative government in favor of a very few selected appointees, and the exclusion of any challengers to the two government parties.


78 posted on 08/02/2011 6:10:47 PM PDT by Psalm 144 (Voodoo Republicans: Don't read their lips - watch their hands.)
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To: A Cyrenian
The fact that you had to ask reflects the reality of the answer.

LLS

79 posted on 08/02/2011 6:11:11 PM PDT by LibLieSlayer (juan mccain certified Al Palin Hobbit Terrorist)
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To: Da Coyote

I’m thinking of changing from indy to republican so I can have a voice in the republican primaries, and vote for real, tea party style, conservatives who will then go on to the general election. Our voices/votes carry more weight in the early battles, I am thinking.


80 posted on 08/02/2011 6:12:45 PM PDT by onemiddleamerican (FUBO and all your terrorist buddies)
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To: Psalm 144

Very interesting (and sadly accurate) observation.


81 posted on 08/02/2011 6:18:35 PM PDT by bushwon ("If you think healthcare is expensive now, wait till it is free"--PJ O'rourke)
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To: A Cyrenian

No. We are still spending huge amounts more than our revenues - which means we are borrowing to pay the rest - which means the debt is increasing. As we print money in order to borrow, we are undermining the value of the dollar and inflating costs of essential goods and services.

The only way out of this mess is to treat the debt like a mortgage. Take our revenues and subtract the interest and scheduled payments on the debt principal. Then devise a budget to perform Constitutional functions that lives within our means. Yes, good programs that are needed by individuals will have to be cut, but we simply can’t afford them through government. They will have to come through the charitable sector.

Next, remove about 3.4 of the regulations that are choking business and setting a huge amount of natural resources aside and watch the U.S. blossom in global competition. A great many of these regulations are specifically designed on the International level to redistribute wealth to third world countries by severely handicapping US business.

Congress needs to put its big boy pants on, grow a pair and take our sovereignty back.


82 posted on 08/02/2011 6:42:20 PM PDT by marsh2
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To: A Cyrenian

Hell no!


83 posted on 08/02/2011 6:46:20 PM PDT by Iron Munro (The more effeminate & debauched the people, the more they are fitted for a tyrannical government.)
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To: A Cyrenian

Congressman Tom McClintock represents the CA Congressional district adjacent to the one I am in. He once ran opposite Schwarzenegger for Governor in the primary. I have been so impressed with his intelligence, candor and integrity in the several meetings I have attended with him. He is a true Conservative and my pick as a candidate for President:

Dear Friend:

This evening, the House voted on the Budget Control Act of 2011, which, pending Senate action, will increase the statutory debt limit. Please find a short note explaining my vote below.

S. 365 – “Budget Control Act of 2011:” NO. This act increases the debt limit by between $2.1 and $2.4 trillion, the biggest explosion of debt in American history. It allows the government to avoid spending reductions for the next two years while squandering our last best hope of averting a sovereign debt crisis.

I am opposed to this measure for the following reasons:

1.The purported cuts, even if realized, are far below the $4 trillion deficit reduction that credit rating agencies have warned is necessary to preserve the Triple-A credit rating of the United States Government.

2.It blows the lid off the House budget passed in April by more than a half-trillion dollars over ten years.

3.It makes no significant spending reductions for at least the next two years, essentially freezing spending at an unsustainable level. While the debt increase occurs this year, deficit reductions are to be spread over many years and could be reversed by future acts of Congress.

4.The spending caps are easily circumvented by declaring appropriations to be an emergency, a response to a “major disaster,” or necessary for the “Global War on Terror.”

5.The balanced budget amendment provisions are illusory because the amendment is completely undefined.

Please don’t hesitate to contact me with any thoughts or concerns through http://www.mcclintock.house.gov/contact.

Sincerely,

Tom


84 posted on 08/02/2011 7:03:35 PM PDT by marsh2
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To: Recovering_Democrat

Hmm, sadly, I do ;(


85 posted on 08/02/2011 7:46:43 PM PDT by bushwon ("If you think healthcare is expensive now, wait till it is free"--PJ O'rourke)
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To: A Cyrenian

It was a mild win. Our share of the divided government allows no more then that.

It sets the stage for much better legislation after the 2012 election if the bratty foot-stomping of the absolutists don’t mess it all up. I don’t think they will. The numbers aren’t there for them.


86 posted on 08/02/2011 9:19:09 PM PDT by tlb
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To: bushwon

I hear you. But, I have to believe that if we make our presence felt it will have an impact. How can they continue to read the polls and not realize that they are working AGAINST the will of the majority of the nation?


87 posted on 08/02/2011 9:30:31 PM PDT by Baynative (If the government was in charge of the desert , we'd soon have a shortage of sand.)
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To: Baynative

You are talking about lobbying for conservatives on this Committee. Less representation—instead of the entire House and Senate, we have 12 members in total control???? I admit I don’t know all the facts about this Super Congress...but the more I hear, the more concerned I am.

Think for a minute about this new form of Super Congress Committee...What is this about? Since when do we start appointing committees that have such authority? Never had anything like this before outside of reconcillation conference...They are just making recommendations, but they seem to be making policies...edicts...This committee was proposed by GOP Boehner and is a political solution—he gets cover as do all the others. Is this Committee even Constitutional?! House is supposed to have power of purse...This Committee is taking authority away from congress. 12 Members? President will have input at least on dem side.

As I understand it, their recommendations will be binding up or down yes or no vote...no amendments....So they get to declare what cuts occur or what can be administered. I heard that to override their will require a 2/3 majority to overrule and no filibusters? Hard to change...

I am not sure about all of their authority—just what I have heard a a little about what i have read, but I am concerned—seems the deck will be stacked, and typically, the more power we give any group in Washington the worse things go.

I will call Boehner, but I think this is a flawed process and plan, so outcome will be flawed.


88 posted on 08/02/2011 10:43:18 PM PDT by bushwon ("If you think healthcare is expensive now, wait till it is free"--PJ O'rourke)
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To: A Cyrenian

You are kidding, right? Obama got his wish to raise the debt limit for the remainder of his tenure. He is the one celebrating, and off to his birthday bash.

This “new committee” they are talking about now will increase taxes. Again Obama gets what he wanted.

No, we fiscal conservatives have nothing to celebrate. We are in mourning for our country, at this juncture.


89 posted on 08/02/2011 11:05:38 PM PDT by takenoprisoner (Repeal the 16th amendment . Send Islam packing to their homeland.)
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To: A Cyrenian

Agree with you.

Too many FReepers are blasting the vote because they have apparently forgotten that the House is only 1/2 of the Legislature and the other half and the Executive is ruled by the Dems.

What good would it have done to pass an excessivly conservative bill from the House only to see it squashed in the Senate?

At least this bill didn’t contain any overt tax increases, which Obama was insisting on, and it has automatic triggers of spending cuts if the bi-partisan House-Senate committee doesn’t provide recommendations in November; recommendations that have to be put to the vote in both the House and Senate.

Conservatives complain that there were not enough spending cuts (and I agree with that), while the Liberals complain that there weren’t income tax increases to permit more spending.

The gnashing of teeth and vitriol I’ve seen on FR the past couple of days about this subject is irrational, IMO.

Raising the debt ceiling only allows the US to borrow more money. It does not give Obama another $2 trillion to “spend as he wishes”, as so many posters on FR have said. Spending authorizations have to be approved by the House and then the Senate, so the debt ceiling increase is not a slush fund for Obama and his Communist handlers.


90 posted on 08/03/2011 1:52:22 AM PDT by octex
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To: sanjuanbob

Thanks my friend, you win.


91 posted on 08/03/2011 8:53:04 AM PDT by 4mer Liberal (Please support the SFTSOTWDIABMTTPBTTASIFTF)
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To: T Minus Four

Ping


92 posted on 08/03/2011 8:55:41 AM PDT by 4mer Liberal (Please support the SFTSOTWDIABMTTPBTTASIFTF)
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