Posted on 03/15/2012 10:52:58 AM PDT by Danae
Another note PA-RIVER, the outer rim of the stamper was permanent for as long as the stamper was used, probably many years, so that got worn more than the outer edge of the year date, which makes your theory of the 80 getting more wear more plausible. I guess that until there is an explanation for all those post marks with the wrong uspo designation, I will continue to be skeptical of something, not knowing just what, but still believing the year on Obama's SS card is fraudulent.
A freeper posted 6 other postmarks from the 80’s with USPO on 5 of them..not sure if they are good as the person posting them was here for a short time regarding obama’s docs then disappeared he thought the form was doctored by those putting them on the net.....
see post 97
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2131428/posts?q=1&;page=51
I stand corrected, there apparently were inquiries made by pajama media in june 2008 and via email they received response on August 12, 2008 that Obama had registered
http://pjmedia.com/blog/obama-did-obama-actually-register-for-selective-service/2/
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2060698/posts
Cancellations are DIFFERENT and not part of this discussion.
One question. In all your years of observations, have you ever seen the year on this type of dater represented by two digits?
Remember, these marks simply indicate the date, as set on that particular stamper, that some document was received by a postal worker, or looked at, or "it was in this box so I stamped it".
It's not like these dates are a critical component in the creation or evaluation of a precise flow of documents.
Think of it this way, the big tsunami last year came in and swept the shoreline pulling in a huge mass of debris. That debris is wending its way across the Pacific. It will arrive here eventually but some of it will go back, and yet other parts of it have already landed and been scavenged. Still, we know the data that the debris mass was recognized and people went out there and dropped marker buoys all over the place. They flow with the mass.
The buoys, however, DID NOT CREATE THE DEBRIS. Likewise a ROUND DATE did not create the document its on.
I bow to your superior knowledge and observations of the round date stamper and am ready to believe there are some pretty negligent postal workers out there. However, during my several years as a postmaster trainer, details as a PE (postal examiner) and details at L’Enfant Plaza (headquarters) in D.C., I have never seen the year on a stamper represented by two digits and so obviously not centered on the stamp.
Those things all had round dates on them (usually in more or less the right place as designated on the forms ~ and if there were changes to those forms I was the guy who'd design them.). As early as 1983 (I'd say), we'd figured out reasons why we didn't need the round dates ~ they finally got rid of them in 2009 (check that news article I referenced).
I've gone through so many tens and hundreds of thousands of mailing statements my thumb prints are almost permanently gone ~ but you know, to write rules that work, you gotta' work the rules, and figure out where they are going, and what it is you are telling people to do. It's not at all like being a federal lawyer sitting in a waffle bottom chair looking out a window wondering what's for dinner ~ the problem at EPA. It's more like doing everything anybody would ever do at any position in management, or the bargaining unit, in any craft, and putting pen to paper to discuss that process.
Oh, yeah, I did the Administrative Support Manual and the Operations Manual (and a bunch of handbooks, etc.).
Making rulings is more fun though.
Regarding my thumb prints, my Android requires me to answer by swiping my thumb across the face.
DOES NOT COMPUTE. I have to use a finger further down my hand to make the thing work. Very annoying. And Angry Birds? Can't play it!
As a practice the Classification folks DID NOT add round dates to received documents ~ we used OTHER means to control flow ~ one of which was to add a UNIQUE sequence number to every piece. That way there was no way to mistake what we did for our own work flow system with what some clerk did somewhere else. BTW, we regularly broke our own sequence machines ~ which were pretty much the same as the devices used in the field, so finding that something was broken shouldn't be a surprise. No doubt there were some people who kept broken stuff out of the system ~ but then there were postmasters I heard of who stashed the overflow in the basement until they got caught (Charleston WV springs to mind on that score. Guy just couldn't make his hours).
Aha!! So you’re the guy all postmasters hated. Changing the rules before we mastered the last set. Mailing statements in particular. LOL.
Again, you don’t see anything strange or manufactured looking in that 80?
My basic theory of forms design was that if a mistake can be made it will be made ~ most of the time.
My more advanced theory of forms design assumed that everybody filling one out was UNCONSCIOUS, or if not UNCONSCIOUS, they didn't really care.
Oh, yes, I know those are quite cynical theories, but they are as true today as they were in the days of Sargon of Akkad!
A couple of digits missing in a round dater ~ Ha! We are lucky to have a year in there.
A thought ~ this one wasn't handed in at a post office ~ sure, a standard USPS round date was applied, but by someone else at a different agency ~ e.g. at the mail in location provided by Selective Service itself.
Thought I'd look up their current rules and found that a New York community college had consolidated the current answer. First, you can go to the post office. Second, you can mail in a form. Third, the FSFA office can provide Selective Service with your information ~ ha, ha, apply for a loan, they'll do it for you ~ neat trick.
Or, you can go on the internet.
Way back when I applied I did so at my highschool.
Just guessing here, you had post offices, highschools, mail-ins, college admissions offices, and maybe even other places (military recruiters perhaps) who could accept that form and round date it with postal equipment ~ in this case a USED round dater or worse, one that was broken and simply passed along to some other place also authorized to accept such applications, and then used by someone who didn't know how to set it but made a "good guess".
Look at this website to see how it's done now: http://www.bmcc.cuny.edu/finaid/forms/Guides/Selective%20Service.pdf
Current practice almost always reflects prior practice in some degree.
Forgery would be the last thing on my mind.
What the hell is your problem? Would you please stop trolling Buckeye Texan? Now would be good.
With all due respect, since when is responding to a post that has a photo soliciting donations to the Democratic party as well as ridiculing birthers, tea party members, etc. called trolling? I almost responded to the post myself but instead kept on reading the thread and came to this. What is going on here on FR lately? Ugh! So if I had responded I would be a troll? Whatever.
http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2011/06/obamas-forged-selective-service.html
As far as the Postal Service no longer using red round date stamps, you are incorrect, they are still being used. The link you posted is concerned with business mailings. How else would a clerk stamp the date on a Certified mail receipt or an irregular size package if not by hand stamp? I have numerous certified receipts red round hand stamped from 2011 and I am sure by April 15, many persons here will avail themselves to that same service.
I do agree with one thing you said, apparently your "assumption" that everyone filling out designing postal forms was UNCONSCIOUS or if not UNCONSCIOUS, they didn't really care......
Since you were apparently a clerk typist or form writer for decades, and not a front office clerk, did know that postal regs call for a 4 digit year stamp on the RDS? How could one have just the last 2 digits of the year but not all 4? How could one have no year as you suggested happened all the time?
BTW, making a mistake on filling out a postal form is not in and of itself a crime ~ never has been, never will be.
Two other things ~ this was done at some place other than a post office, or it was done in a post office.
Two more things ~ the round date was in service longer or shorter than the average round date device.
Two more things ~ we can figure out which model hand stamp was used, or we can't. I suspect two sources can resolve that ~ the Postal Museum or the USPS historian.
If we decide this was done in Hawaii recognize that it is one of those locations where things go off to die ~ so you could easily have a very old round date device ~ with the "1" and "9" or "19" simply missing.
Other Freepers have pointed out that this particular registration took place in a sort of catch-up period so that no one got missed for Selective Service registration (that apparently having been discontinued along with Selective Service for a time).
A mistake is not always a forgery, nor do forgers always make mistakes.
There is no cancellation whatsoever on that piece. It appears to be a standard configuration round date.
Why was an ad soliciting Democrat donations posted on FR w’out any comment of any kind? This is an honest and sincere question; I really want to know. I would prefer to ask you than the poster, since he/she has been rude and aggressive toward me in the recent for no cause whatsoever. I hate to think how he/she would respond if I asked an actual question that he/she could construe negatively. I don’t see why anybody has to be knee-jerk snide, but it takes all kinds I guess.
Thank you in advance.
You are real funny, you are the one who is uniformed about registering for the Selective Service in 1980, and you made an absurd guess as to what the procedure was. I pointed out what the required procedure was and you ignored it. You do a disservice by posting unresearched guesses concerning allegations of a serious crime. Then when corrected you ignore the truth. Next thing you know you will try and say the 19 is missing because baby powder got on the form when it was stamped...like the BC.
BTW, making a mistake on filling out a postal form is not in and of itself a crime ~ never has been, never will be.
That is a Selectiv Service Form not a postal service form and it is a crime to forge it and it is fraud to knowingly represent a forged form as authentice. So now you have experience as a postal inspector and federal investigator?
Would you care to make a wager with loser donating $100 to Free Republic as to the requirements in 1980 to register for the draft? I will if you will. I've already posted my answer and anyone who registered knows it is correct.
It all depends on a person's meaning of the word cancellation. Technically the better word would be postmark as there is no stamp or postal stationary under the mark. The words are usually used interchangeably. Thanks for helping me to use the correct terms, but why not point out the difference?
You find the law about ‘forging’ a Selective Service form ~ like somebody is going to do that ~ get serious. There are gazillions of them freely available in post offices, and if you complete the FSFA form they will send Selective Service your information (and lo and behold you are registered). They’ll send a followup telling you that. Try: http://www.fafsaonline.com/fafsa-form/eligibility-for-financial-aid-4.php
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