Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Windfall of cash could hit state treasury from global warming program
San Jose Mercury News ^ | 4/8/12 | Paul Rogers

Posted on 04/08/2012 7:48:38 AM PDT by SmithL

For the past 10 years, California has struggled with huge budget deficits and wrenching cuts. Suddenly, however, the state is poised to raise billions from an unusual new source: the proceeds from its landmark global warming law.

The windfall could come as soon as this fall, when state officials are set to begin auctioning off pollution credits to oil refineries, power plants and other major polluters as part of a new "cap-and-trade" system.

The amounts are potentially enormous: from $1 billion to $3 billion a year in 2012 and 2013, jumping to as high as $14 billion a year by 2015, according to the nonpartisan state Legislative Analyst's Office. By comparison, the state's current budget deficit is $9 billion.

But like thirsty castaways on an island surrounded by ocean water they can't drink, Gov. Jerry Brown and state legislators face strict constraints on how they can spend the money. More than 30 years of court rulings and ballot measures -- dating to Proposition 13 in 1978 -- limit its use, probably only to projects that reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

To add another hurdle, major business groups are preparing lawsuits, arguing that the state cannot collect the money at all.

Still, Brown and others in the Capitol are cautiously making plans. On Monday, the state's High-Speed Rail Authority slipped into a news release that the money would be used as "a backstop" that could save the struggling bullet-train project. And in a follow-up interview with this newspaper, Dan Richard, chairman of the rail authority, asserted that a large portion of the money could go to fund high-speed rail.

(Excerpt) Read more at mercurynews.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Government; Politics/Elections; US: California
KEYWORDS: ab32; capandtrade; extortion; globalwarminghoax; goldenstate
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-65 next last

1 posted on 04/08/2012 7:48:47 AM PDT by SmithL
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: SmithL

They’ll get less than the projections as more companies flee California.


2 posted on 04/08/2012 7:51:46 AM PDT by Richard from IL
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SmithL

All I want to know is how do I get in on this SCAM and how much money can I make?


3 posted on 04/08/2012 7:52:49 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SmithL

Consumers shafted again.

People need to get over this notion that actions have no cost.


4 posted on 04/08/2012 7:53:22 AM PDT by depressed in 06 (6 November, 2012, the day our embarrassment is sent back to Kenya.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SmithL
The windfall could come as soon as this fall, when state officials are set to begin auctioning off pollution credits to oil refineries, power plants and other major polluters as part of a new "cap-and-trade" system.

Emphasis on "could".

And even if it does, the idiots in Sacramento and the thousands of bureaucracies in this state will just spend 10 times more than whatever this brings in so we will have accomplished nothing except driving more businesses out of the state.

5 posted on 04/08/2012 7:53:27 AM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all -- Texas Eagle)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Texas Eagle

Is this groundhog day? I thought cap and trade was dead.


6 posted on 04/08/2012 7:54:23 AM PDT by Free America52 (The White guys are getting pissed off. We beat Hitler Hirohito and Krushchev. Obama will be easy.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: SmithL
Gov. Jerry Brown ... face(s) strict constraints on how they can spend the money... only to projects that reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

Such as the train to nowhere.

7 posted on 04/08/2012 7:54:38 AM PDT by Michael.SF. (When you hear hooves, think horses, not zebras.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SmithL
The windfall could come as soon as this fall, when state officials are set to begin auctioning off pollution credits to oil refineries, power plants and other major polluters as part of a new "cap-and-trade" system.

Are these progressives insane? Really?

They're acting like this is some windfall of $$$ raining down like manna from heaven. What they fail to grasp is that the money comes from someplace, in this case oil refineries. Now these refineries have that much less money in the till to upgrade equipment (jobs) , expand production (jobs and lower gas prices) and hire more people.

Maybe I'm missing something, but gov Moonbeam and the thieves in Sacramento are acting just like hungry castaways on an island with no food, who suddenly start gnawing on their foot and think they've been given an endless feast.

8 posted on 04/08/2012 7:55:55 AM PDT by YankeeReb
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SmithL

.

Funny that California consumers think some one else will pay this money.

Idiots have a powerful media and education system working to please them, smart people don’t.


9 posted on 04/08/2012 7:58:00 AM PDT by mrsmith (Dumb sluts: Lifeblood of the Media, Backbone of the Democrat Party!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Free America52

It is but Kalifornia wants to be first state to jump off the cliff.


10 posted on 04/08/2012 7:58:11 AM PDT by meatloaf (Support House Bill 1380 to eliminate oil slavery.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: SmithL

“Carbon Credits” of the Global Warming religion are the same as “Indulgence Papers” of the Catholic Church during the middle ages... The goal is to scam the stupid and take their money telling them that you have been saved and in the meanwhile the priests of the Global Warming religion are getting filthy rich...Global warming is the biggest hoax in history of mankind...


11 posted on 04/08/2012 8:02:22 AM PDT by jveritas (God bless our brave troops)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SmithL

Another extra ambitious plan by California to drive businesses from that state.

For the companies and consumers left behind, from where do you suppose these companies will get the cash to pay for the pollution credits?


12 posted on 04/08/2012 8:03:39 AM PDT by upchuck (Need is not an acceptable lifestyle choice; dependent is not a career. ~ Dr. Tim Nerenz)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SmithL
But like thirsty castaways on an island surrounded by ocean water they can't drink, Gov. Jerry Brown and state legislators face strict constraints on how they can spend the money.

Bwaaa ha ha ha haaaaaaa!!!

As if Gov. Moonbeam and his Commie Pinko friends give a damn about laws and rules and all that crap.

Oh, San Jose Murky News, you crack me up.

13 posted on 04/08/2012 8:05:40 AM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all -- Texas Eagle)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: YankeeReb

You would think they would look at the epic fail of cap and trade in Europe and realize they are living in Wonderland. California already has tough emission laws. There is no ‘low hanging fruit’ left for the gov fleece. Those who can move will, others will just leave.


14 posted on 04/08/2012 8:07:03 AM PDT by resistance (abandon all hope and rational thought, become a democrat)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: YankeeReb

“Maybe I’m missing something, but gov Moonbeam and the thieves in Sacramento are acting just like hungry castaways on an island with no food, who suddenly start gnawing on their foot and think they’ve been given an endless feast.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Well said, but I’ve always preferred the poignant image of an old toothless dog, chewing on a dry bone until its gums bleed, then savoring the delicious treat it has in its mouth.


15 posted on 04/08/2012 8:08:08 AM PDT by dagogo redux (A whiff of primitive spirits in the air, harbingers of an impending descent into the feral.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: SmithL

Among others, The power companies should just shut down and turn off the lights. Something tells me that there will be a lot loss jobs in California in a few years.


16 posted on 04/08/2012 8:08:20 AM PDT by Revel
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SmithL

According to Tribune. BLAME IT ON BUSH!!!!

Higher gas prices cause less public anger this time
Several factors are behind the relative complacency now compared with the price surge of 2008, analysts say.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/la-fi-gas-outrage-20120407,0,816255.story


17 posted on 04/08/2012 8:12:09 AM PDT by KeyLargo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SmithL
Suddenly, however, the state is poised to raise billions from an unusual new source

..the tax payers of the US....anyone else think this is a payoff from the Odungo administration?...notice the word "could" get paid. This sounds so hinky

18 posted on 04/08/2012 8:12:42 AM PDT by Doogle (((USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated)))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SmithL
But like thirsty castaways on an island surrounded by ocean water they can't drink, Gov. Jerry Brown and state legislators face strict constraints on how they can spend the money.

As if "strict constraints" ever stopped them, ever.

19 posted on 04/08/2012 8:12:42 AM PDT by denydenydeny (Admiration of absolute government is proportionate to the contempt one has for others.-Tocqueville)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SmithL

$1-3 billion in new “taxes” on the consumers still paying their own power bills. These additional costs will be passed on to the consumers. They might as well just call it what it is - another tax increase.


20 posted on 04/08/2012 8:14:45 AM PDT by Ingtar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Ingtar

Oh - that’s right. They’re calling it fees, so in Romney’s world it is not really a tax increase.


21 posted on 04/08/2012 8:15:43 AM PDT by Ingtar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Texas Eagle
The windfall could come as soon as this fall, when state officials are set to begin auctioning off pollution credits to oil refineries, power plants and other major polluters as part of a new "cap-and-trade" system.

Wouldn't they just love to know they'll owe no royalties to Fannie Mae? A certain FReeper (me) filed a provisional patent application describing "natural process assets that transform the state of mobile commons such as air and water" more than eighteen months before Bartels' application date.

22 posted on 04/08/2012 8:16:58 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (GunWalker: Arming "a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as well funded")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Ingtar
$1-3 billion in new “taxes” on the consumers still paying their own power bills. These additional costs will be passed on to the consumers. They might as well just call it what it is - another an illegal tax increase.

There, fixed it.

23 posted on 04/08/2012 8:18:44 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (GunWalker: Arming "a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as well funded")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: SmithL

These leeches also told us the lottery would save education and balance the budget, and tobacco taxes would save health care and balance the budget.

Nothing has changed and they continue to spend 20-30% more then they take in in revenue.

I don’t blame the politicians as much as the morons in this state who keep electing them.


24 posted on 04/08/2012 8:25:33 AM PDT by BigBobber
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: depressed in 06

Exactly. As if all this $$ just appears from nowhere, like manna from Heaven. The consumer will pay the bill. Employers will pay the bill, which means fewer jobs and less tax revenue (when they decide to leave). Idiots all.


25 posted on 04/08/2012 8:25:49 AM PDT by rbg81
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Ingtar

**$1-3 billion in new “taxes” on the consumers still paying their own power bills. These additional costs will be passed on to the consumers. They might as well just call it what it is - another tax increase.***

Liberals don’t get it. Corporations and big business don’t pay taxes, it is the consumer that pays all of it. All costs are passed on in the final price.

And these new taxes will go where all the other taxes have gone, down a RAT hole.


26 posted on 04/08/2012 8:26:53 AM PDT by wrench
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: SmithL

Thanks for posting the article.

“The windfall could come as soon as this fall, when state officials are set to begin auctioning off pollution credits to oil refineries, power plants and other major polluters as part of a new “cap-and-trade” system. “

And WHERE do the oil refineries, power plants and other major polluters get the money to pay for those ‘pollution credits’?


27 posted on 04/08/2012 8:31:45 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: meatloaf
It is but Kalifornia wants to be first state to jump off the cliff.

I hear they have a lot of cliffs.

28 posted on 04/08/2012 8:33:46 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Carry_Okie
Wow. I clicked on the link.

You'll have to dumb this down for me just a bit.

Actually, a lot.

29 posted on 04/08/2012 8:33:46 AM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all -- Texas Eagle)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: BigBobber
These leeches also told us the lottery would save education and balance the budget, and tobacco taxes would save health care and balance the budget.

Those same leeches told us that if we hid underneath a WOOD DESK it would protect us from a nuclear fireball.

30 posted on 04/08/2012 8:43:09 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: SmithL

Windfall of cash?

Sounds more like a Ponzi scheme.


31 posted on 04/08/2012 8:44:05 AM PDT by Huskrrrr
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jveritas
Global warming is the biggest hoax in history of mankind...

Well, with the exception of Obama qualifying for President.

32 posted on 04/08/2012 8:46:05 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Richard from IL

My wife and I have good paying jobs in Silcon Valley, but we can’t wait to get out of this insane state. Not only will companies flee, people will too when their energy bills soar.


33 posted on 04/08/2012 8:46:54 AM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: SmithL
My bet...the companies will fold up their businesses and move to more favorable business climates.

Ah, them Kalifornians are too smart by half.

34 posted on 04/08/2012 8:48:42 AM PDT by harpu ( "...it's better to be hated for who you are than loved for someone you're not!")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Michael.SF.
train to nowhere

GOOGLE SAYS:

About 3,160,000 results (0.46 seconds)

and in related news:

High Speed Rail Authority approves what critics call 'train to nowhere'

35 posted on 04/08/2012 8:51:07 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: SmithL
Have they thought of charging individuals for the CO2 they exhale?

That would bring in trillions.

Couldn't charge Eric Holder's people, though. That would be racist.

36 posted on 04/08/2012 8:59:08 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Over half of U.S. murders are of black people, and 90% of them are committed by other black people.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: YankeeReb

I like the quote in the Mecury News, that states:’the funds will somehow be restrained to enviromental projects’ great lies if anyone accually believe the frauds in Sacremento; to think Arnold pass this offensive legislation(we should have known that if you marry a Kennedy you will always be liberal no matter what party affiliation). That prick not only fathered a bastard kid, got his murdering son’s pal sentence slashed in half, but put into motion, years of lawsuits, and counter lawsuits, in a time we cannot even afford to give free cell service to legislators. Progressives are anything but! That piece of garbage should be shipped back to Austria before he does any further damage——God, Califorians are so effing stupid, they voted for Brown again, what do you expect.


37 posted on 04/08/2012 8:59:12 AM PDT by Joshua Marcus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: BigBobber
I don’t blame the politicians as much as the morons in this state who keep electing them.

Bingo. California is getting exactly what it deserves. I just hope the rest of the country doesn't get stuck bailing it out.

38 posted on 04/08/2012 9:02:17 AM PDT by Reddon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Texas Eagle

Cap and trade. You can still pollute but will have to pay for the ability.


39 posted on 04/08/2012 9:02:50 AM PDT by EQAndyBuzz (Solyent Pink is Sheeple!!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Richard from IL
They’ll get less than the projections as more companies flee California.

Yes, but they'll spend twice what they project.

40 posted on 04/08/2012 9:04:49 AM PDT by CarmichaelPatriot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Texas Eagle; theBuckwheat; fire and forget; Jim Robinson
The State is planning on charging people for a service they do not really perform (the natural means by which atmospheric carbon is adsorbed). They exert no effort to manage those "services" because they're "Natural" (a bogus idea in the first place). They have no means of verification if those "services" are actually performed to contract. They have no plan to cover contractual failure. My system has all those features.

This is not a wacky idea in the sense that land management services toward environmental ends do cost money are are therefore (in theory) "worth" compensation. For example, how I manage my land does effect how much runoff there is and therefore can mitigate floods to a degree while storing water for late season release or human groundwater use. It might not be much in the aggregate sense, but automated transaction processing could make it worth the overhead by the time all such contracts were combined. Such a market would then optimize each property for its appropriate combination of uses.

There is a problem however: How do you measure (and more importantly VERIFY) what is or is not actually performed and how did it work? My patent covers that. Bartels does not.

Because I foresaw the potential for an enormous and corrupt market in bogus "services" (complete with university-determined price fixing), I filed for patent to preclude such a powerful monopoly. Because it was sitting in the USPTO for eight long years and I had no money to do much more than keep it going, the thugs of this world didn't know of my application while they got the fast track. Once I fired my lawyer (on his recommendation) I went pro-se, wrote my own claims, and gained that patent.

I hate like hell sitting on this thing because it gets weaker without me putting it into motion, but at least it could be cited as prior art, thus invalidating the claim for royalties under Bartels.

A FReeper throwing sand in those gears would be news, n'est ce pas?

41 posted on 04/08/2012 9:12:49 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (GunWalker: Arming "a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as well funded")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: SmithL

The article presupposes that any one is going to abide by crap and trade. The money has already been spent and California is is far in debt that 3 billion wouldn’t put a dent in it.


42 posted on 04/08/2012 9:17:07 AM PDT by Nifster
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Richard from IL

For those companies who have finally realized that they have no hope of continuing running a decent business in California:

There are 7 states that have NO personal income tax. Some don’t tax corporations, either.

Properties are less expensive in many of those states. Property taxes are less, also. I have 5.58 acres with house, garage, well, septic & my property taxes last year were $1200. Properties can be bought at the bottom or the top of the price ranges.

Talented & qualified persons you have now would have an opportunity to go with you and improve their usable income, also.

Here in N Nevada, the reacreational activities are abundant. Summer/winter & in between.

Look at the Tahoe Reno Industrial Park just east of Reno, along Interstate 80. Also- look in the Carson Valley at the aitport complex.

If your business needs access to major transportation, or wants to build a newer facility, see what they offer on their website.

I have absolutely no personal connection with Lance Gilman, the developer, nor with any company that is there already.

I just am a former resident of California who has known for years that California is sinking into a morass of it’s own making.

I left & I don’t miss it.


43 posted on 04/08/2012 9:28:28 AM PDT by ridesthemiles
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: SmithL

The alternative to being scammed by cap and trade is to shutdown. Watch the power plants go away. No taxes from them or from businesses who can’t function without electricity. Windfall? No. Windstorm with lots of damage.


44 posted on 04/08/2012 9:29:46 AM PDT by Myrddin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SmithL

magic thinking - on a par with cargo cults among Pacific islanders.


45 posted on 04/08/2012 9:36:10 AM PDT by vbmoneyspender
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SmithL

It seems to me that the net effect will be to force power generation and manufacturing out of CA.

The grid will have to be improved to accommodate the change. Remember the brown-outs?

Then Californians will pay rates for electricity that is imported from other states.

Perhaps CA will then increase taxes on imported energy to create the next “windfall.”


46 posted on 04/08/2012 9:40:55 AM PDT by MV=PY (The Magic Question: Who's paying for it?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SmithL

This is actually funny, in a sickening sort of way.

Democrats always project that they will get huge increases in revenues by raising taxes. And it *never* works. Never, ever. It is the curse of Arthur Laffer.

And corporate taxes are the worst, because Democrats are just unable to grasp the idea that all those “mountains of free money” that are corporate profits, DO NOT go to bizarre “Scrooge McDuck” types, who use it to fill swimming pools with gold coins, buy chicken egg-sized diamonds, and smoke cigars rolled in one million dollar bills.

But because of the mindless greed and hate of Democrats, corporations *do* spend far more money than they want to on ambitious young tax attorneys and accountants, who are then tasked with a major, ongoing project: Tax avoidance (note: “avoid”==legal; “evade”==illegal).

And when the Democrats projected tax revenues of “millions and billions and trillions” of dollars results instead in a handful of subway tokens and some used chewing gum, the Democrats loudly complain and whine that the “evil” corporations are “stealing” money from the government, and should be forced to give more money. That is, even higher taxes.

Some people are really slow on the uptake.

However, because of their persistence, some corporation do eventually cough up some bread, which instantly translates to inflation, as they pass 105% of the costs on to consumers. And while the Democrats have no problem with screwing consumers, in past, even in California, consumers had other ideas.

Yet this time, push may have come to shove. This is because California has been oppressing industry for years, to the point where California is borderline for any profit margin at all.


47 posted on 04/08/2012 9:47:20 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy ("It is already like a government job," he said, "but with goats." -- Iranian goat smuggler)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SmithL

Cap’n Trade IS NOT about “global warming”, “climate change” or “savin da planit”. Cap’n Trade is about politicians stealing other people’s money to get themselves reelected by promising the voters more “free stuff”.


48 posted on 04/08/2012 9:48:24 AM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (The libs don't want to save da planit. If they did, they'd boycott BIG oil and petroleum products.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SmithL

Wow. 100% of the comments at the mercury news site would fit in right here at FR!


49 posted on 04/08/2012 10:15:31 AM PDT by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SmithL

““The windfall could come as soon as this fall...”

I thought windfalls were bad. The lefties are always screaming about the evils windfall profits. Where are they now?


50 posted on 04/08/2012 10:17:03 AM PDT by Henry Hnyellar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-65 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson