Posted on 06/13/2012 6:05:21 PM PDT by Grig
This may be the post that gets me zotted, and if so, so be it, but it would be a nice sign of respect for free speech, and just plain old maturity if that doesn’t happen. I won’t lose sleep either way though.
All through the Clinton years FR played a key role in helping me really come to appreciate the wisdom of the founding fathers as Clinton violated their principles in so many ways. I found here a large community of wise, informed posters from a diverse background that added depth and clarity to the news of the day. It was here on FR that I found out about the WTC attack. Being Canadian, the second amendment always seemed kind of silly to me, but through FR I learned how wrong that view was and now wish my country had such a right for it’s citizens.
That was then, now more and more it has felt like FR has dwindled into an insular, nearly feral, group of political and religious thought police whose mission is to ferret out anybody who doesn’t fit their orthodoxy and get rid of them, while propagandizing against anything the disagree with. At times it feels more energy is spent attacking those who should be seen as allies rather than the true enemies. I used to spend a fair bit of time here each day, now perhaps a quick look once every few weeks because of this change in climate. I know many have left because of it, many have already posted their concerns about it, and their wise observations and suggestions have fallen on deaf ears.
I do feel I have a small measure of responsibility for the change (but no guilt). When FR started to fail to live up to it’s own rules about not bashing religions (when it came to my religion) we Mormon posters decided that instead of being party to the creation of long threads filled with contention that made it hard for the moderators see the difference in our behavior and theirs, we decided instead to simply post articles putting forward our position and leave the critics to show their true colors. (see http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2013341/posts). Not only did the anti-Mormon posters oblige us and demonstrate the level of hate and bigotry in their hearts, but so did the anti-Momons within the leadership of FR. And thus began the decent of FR from a vibrant ad-hoc conservative think tank into an echo chamber of yes men with a loud group of religious bigots leading the way. It is sad to see it come to this, and I hope that the day comes when sanity returns. Something that needs to happen for that day to come is for the majority of people around here to face this reality: If you are not supporting Mitt Romney, you are playing into Obama’s hands. Any hopes of a brokered convention or third party conservative super-candidate are nothing but delusions fueled by a denial of reality. It comes down to either Mitt or Obama, and if you are not supporting Mitt you are helping Obama. Deal with it.
And don’t try to hide behind the idea that Mitt losing will be good in the long term for conservatism. That is putting your partisanship above your patriotism. Obama has done massive damage to the USA, and if you give him another 4 years you may not have a USA left at the end of his term. What good will this theoretical transformation of the GOP then? Truth is that if Mitt loses, no matter how conservative or liberal his campaign and policies are, the media will blame it on him being too right-wing and drive the GOP to the left as much as they can. Also, the good of the country should come first if you want to call yourself a patriot, and having Mitt in the White House will be much better for the USA than having Obama there.
While Mitt is not perfect (nobody is) I find many of the attacks on him so over the top, so full of exaggeration and fear mongering that ignores contrary evidence or any sense of proportion that I can’t help but suspect they hyperbole is just a mask for darker motives. The fact that in many cases these attacks come from those who also display great hostility towards Mormonism says it all. Deny it all you want, it is easy to see. For a satirical look at it, check this video I made: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG68yz-mMgE
I am going to make some predictions I would like to make, and I hope this thread stays around so that in years to come you can all look back and see how it turned out:
- every conservative you respect will vote for Mitt, all of them (perhaps a couple excepts, but not many) will even endorse him and perhaps campaign with him
- Mitt will become the next POTUS in a landslide victory,
- President Romney will do very well on the economy and on foreign affairs/national security
- President Romney will conduct himself with honor and integrity both in office and in his personal life
- He will be a better president than either Bush was
- You will hear conservative pundits call him this generation’s Ronald Reagan, or Ronald Reagan’s 3rd term or something along those lines
- President Romney will be re-elected in another big victory
- His Vice President will become POTUS after his second term
- If there is an assassination attempt on him, it will either be by the Chineese, or by some religiously motivated nutjob (Islamic or Evangelical)
And for those of you anti-Mormons out there, I have some prediction for you too. And these apply even if Romney is not elected as POTUS:
- Your grandchildren will call Mormons Christians, and look at Mormonism as the third branch of Christianity alongside Catholicism and Protestantism
- All the attacks against Romney that stem from the anti-Mormon garbage you have bought into will result in the attacker either apologizing, or in their loss of credibility. The more anti-Mormon attacks are made in the mainstream media, the worse the attackers will look.
- Your grandchildren will likewise look at such attacks as being as bigoted and wrong, even when they come from you.
- Some of your grandchildren or great-grandchildren will become Mormons, and after you are dead they will have temple ordinances performed for you, and you will be glad at the time that they do.
I dare you to post your own predictions of what a Romney presidency will result in.
I dare FR to leave this thread open and available for comments and to not delete a single comment from it.
I dare FR to start respecting freedom of religion by not playing favorites towards one religious group as is currently done by disallowing Mormon caucus threads, and if that is too big a challenge for you, the do away with the Religion Forum altogether.
I dare you all to give Mormons and Mormonism the respect it deserves to have as the 4th largest denomination in the USA, stalwart defender of traditional values, glowing example of Christian charity at home and around the world, the most conservative people of all religious groups, and staunch defenders of the principles of the constitution and values that built the country. No matter how much you disagree with us on religious matters, we are and should be treated as valuable conservative allies. Until FR does that, all they do is shoot themselves in the foot.
You mean the “white horse prophecy”, fake.....hahahah
Denial, it’s been denounced, JS never said it - that’s what lds say to “outsiders”.
My considerably large lds family all beleive that Romney is the fulfillment of the WHP.
Before you ask, when they talk to me they tell me everything because I am viewed as a “primitive”.
(Well, that's just rich.
Listen, I've appreciated Mormon zeal...and Grig's empassioned appeal I guess could be commended somehow (still trying to figure out where)...But what tends to happen with such zeal is a lack of objectivity...
So I've put this Grig lopsidedness into chart format to note the sheer hypocrisy exercised here by Grig...(This shows Mormon elitism -- what is 'perfectly acceptable' for Lds, Inc & grassroots Mormons to do under $BILLIONS in budgetary expenditures -- becomes highly suspect when any loose-knit Evangelical group engages Mormonism)
Grig Spewing Away @ Evangelicals |
Grig's Latest Question Reveals Lopsided Approach to Dealing w/Those of Other Faiths + (Grig's own Q turned back on him) |
| Grig's Vanity accusatory rant: "Not only did the anti-Mormon posters oblige us and demonstrate the level of hate and bigotry in their hearts, but so did the anti-Momons within the leadership of FR. And thus began the decent of FR from a vibrant ad-hoc conservative think tank into an echo chamber of yes men with a loud group of religious bigots leading the way." | "Why do you care (or pretend to care) so much about what Mormons think of your creeds? Why is our approval so important to you? It is strange." (Grig, Post #196) Tell us, Grig, why isn't it a fair turnabout question then to ask: Why do you care (or pretend to care) about what the 'leadership of FR' does? What do you care (or pretend to care) about what a handful of FR posters post about Mormonism? Why are Mormon assumptions about Christian creeds supposedly unassailable, yet you can assail FR leadership as well as Evangelicals (as would-be assassins, 'haters' and 'bigots?') |
| "There has been some very inflammatory rhetoric from some corners of the evangelical world about having a Mormon POTUS..." (Grig, Post #105) | "Why do you care (or pretend to care) so much about what Mormons think of your creeds? Why is our approval so important to you? It is strange." (Grig, Post #196) Tell us, Grig, why isn't it a fair turnabout question then to ask: Why do you care (or pretend to care) about what 'rhetoric' that 'some corners of the evangelical world' have about a Mormon POTUS? What do you care (or pretend to care) about what a handful of FR posters -- or other Evangelicals in distinct venues -- say about Mormonism? Why are Mormon assumptions about Christian creeds supposedly unassailable, yet you can assail "the Evangelical world" (as would-be assassins and 'inflammatory') Why do you apparently deem it NOT as 'inflammatory' for Mormons to label 100% of Christian creeds as an abomination? |
| "The intense level of vitriol spewed by some Evangelicals toward Mormonism..." (Grig, Post #165) | "Why do you care (or pretend to care) so much about what Mormons think of your creeds? Why is our approval so important to you? It is strange." (Grig, Post #196) Tell us, Grig, why isn't it a fair turnabout question then to ask: Why do you care (or pretend to care) about how intense Evangelicals comment about Mormonism? Why are Mormon assumptions about Christian creeds supposedly unassailable, yet you can assail Evangelicals (as would-be assassins and 'vitriolic'?) Why do you apparently deem it NOT as 'vitriolic' for Mormons to label 100% of Christian creeds as an abomination? |
There ya have it: Grig's open dual standards -- for the world to see...
AWWWww, out of thousands of FReepers only "several" agreed with you on "FR devolving into an anti-Mormon love-fest, hurting FR in the process," and only garnering interest of a measley 200 replies to your whine, NOW you're gonna run away and hide.
LOL...don't let the door hit ya.
BTW, believing that the many ABO posters on FR are pro-mormonism because they want Obama gone is about as intelligent as believing that Joseph Smith is a "true prophet of god".
Romney is seen as the lesser evil to most ABO FReepers.
It started out that SLC lds were hired by Hughes because he thought they were honest.
It turned out they striped him of much of his wealth, kept him a virtual prisoner, starving him, and denial of medical attention.
When Hughes died SLC lds laid claim to his fortune, challenging Hughes will in court.
next of all....CATHOLICS are routinely bashed on FR ....its not just Mormons...
and lastly, some of the Mormons here on FR are over the top at times...defending every Mormon who ever walked the earth...
I call the behavoir clannish.....almost like when one Mormon states something a call goes out for all FR Mormons to post on the thread....that is how it appears...
again...I support and will vote for Romney, maybe even put his sign that he personally sent me on my door....
you're going have to learn to buck up on FR....people piss me off all the time and I'm sure they get pissed at me....but this is what goes on in forums....
Oh get over yourself.
You get on here post a whiny thread on how much you hate Christians and then bitc# they fight back.
You get on here a bitc# about FR and wonder why people don’t challenge you.
Good grief, you are playing the mormonism persecution card well, now go back to your women’s society meeting and tell everyone about it.
Ah...that's your excuse for accusing Evangelical Americans as "assassins and nutjobs"...."?
I really don't think that your defense of the mormon cult will have an impact on Canadians give the ugly history of the polygamist Joseph Smith-inspired child-bride colonies in Canada.
Your whine is about "poor little mormons" not being able to proselytize without rebuttal on FR, nothing more.
What was the last FR thread you began that was a description of mormon doctrine?
More irrational appeals to emotion. See, I don't play those games. Claiming that others are being intellectually dishonest, while you yourself are engaged in the same, doesn't do much for your credibility.
"Well, if you are trying to rebuke somebody out of love and all they perceive is hatred then you are not doing a very good job, are you?"
A disappointing, but expected reply. I see that you are still trying to drop the blame at others' feet.
Funny thing, mormons will tell gentiles, to read and pray about the BoM, but when you yourselves are challenged by non-mormons, it's "hatred" to do so? Just how does this work in your world Grig?
How is it that I'm still responsible for your inability to process the information without it being perceived as "hatred"? Cognitive dissonance.
The problem with mormons such as yourself, is that you want it both ways. You want to be able to tell yourselves that you are the only correct church, send 50k+ missionaries out telling others the same and then say that any who refute, rebuke or reject what you believe are guilty of "hatred".
Stop the pity party already, your false prophet and subsequent false prophets did all they could to degrade Christians and Christianity. This "persecution" complex mormons have built up to defend/deflect criticism is pathetic.
Read the words of your own prophets who challenged people to challenge mormonism, to "bring it".
You flatter yourself...egocentric and narcissistic, just like another pretender.
"If you want to exaggerate your grievance by falsely saying we hold the rest of Christianity as 100% wrong when we see a lot of common ground"...there IS no "common ground" because mormonism preaches multiple gods while Christians know there is only one true GOD, and mormonism preaches that "God and Jesus were once men" who had to work their way up. The very nature of GOD is basic to Christian faith. Claiming your god to have been a common mortal is not.
These mormon beliefs are anti-Christian. Deal with it.
And now that you are done you can leave. Go back to your antifreeper cave and collect your hero’s reward.
Bye.
Hoisted on his own petard.
God’s hand did not write the dictionary...
I would tend to stick with his definitions of what a Christian is, not some professor in an office many years ago...
I think it was deliberate on Grig’s part...reminds me of the MittBots in ‘08 who dared JR.
Thank you, JR.
Strangely Jim, it must be a sign of honor to be zotted by you.
Mormons have a persecution complex. Perhaps getting zotted -
especially by you, as opposed to an “ordinary” moderator -
let’s them boast of extra worthiness due to the magnitude
of the zot. It appears they try to get in your face in order
to collect boast-worthy persecution accolades.
She alerted that site before she posted with a thread that claimed it would probably be her last post, LOL. Now they can all hoot and holler and high-five each other. So childish.
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