Posted on 06/13/2012 6:05:21 PM PDT by Grig
This may be the post that gets me zotted, and if so, so be it, but it would be a nice sign of respect for free speech, and just plain old maturity if that doesn’t happen. I won’t lose sleep either way though.
All through the Clinton years FR played a key role in helping me really come to appreciate the wisdom of the founding fathers as Clinton violated their principles in so many ways. I found here a large community of wise, informed posters from a diverse background that added depth and clarity to the news of the day. It was here on FR that I found out about the WTC attack. Being Canadian, the second amendment always seemed kind of silly to me, but through FR I learned how wrong that view was and now wish my country had such a right for it’s citizens.
That was then, now more and more it has felt like FR has dwindled into an insular, nearly feral, group of political and religious thought police whose mission is to ferret out anybody who doesn’t fit their orthodoxy and get rid of them, while propagandizing against anything the disagree with. At times it feels more energy is spent attacking those who should be seen as allies rather than the true enemies. I used to spend a fair bit of time here each day, now perhaps a quick look once every few weeks because of this change in climate. I know many have left because of it, many have already posted their concerns about it, and their wise observations and suggestions have fallen on deaf ears.
I do feel I have a small measure of responsibility for the change (but no guilt). When FR started to fail to live up to it’s own rules about not bashing religions (when it came to my religion) we Mormon posters decided that instead of being party to the creation of long threads filled with contention that made it hard for the moderators see the difference in our behavior and theirs, we decided instead to simply post articles putting forward our position and leave the critics to show their true colors. (see http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2013341/posts). Not only did the anti-Mormon posters oblige us and demonstrate the level of hate and bigotry in their hearts, but so did the anti-Momons within the leadership of FR. And thus began the decent of FR from a vibrant ad-hoc conservative think tank into an echo chamber of yes men with a loud group of religious bigots leading the way. It is sad to see it come to this, and I hope that the day comes when sanity returns. Something that needs to happen for that day to come is for the majority of people around here to face this reality: If you are not supporting Mitt Romney, you are playing into Obama’s hands. Any hopes of a brokered convention or third party conservative super-candidate are nothing but delusions fueled by a denial of reality. It comes down to either Mitt or Obama, and if you are not supporting Mitt you are helping Obama. Deal with it.
And don’t try to hide behind the idea that Mitt losing will be good in the long term for conservatism. That is putting your partisanship above your patriotism. Obama has done massive damage to the USA, and if you give him another 4 years you may not have a USA left at the end of his term. What good will this theoretical transformation of the GOP then? Truth is that if Mitt loses, no matter how conservative or liberal his campaign and policies are, the media will blame it on him being too right-wing and drive the GOP to the left as much as they can. Also, the good of the country should come first if you want to call yourself a patriot, and having Mitt in the White House will be much better for the USA than having Obama there.
While Mitt is not perfect (nobody is) I find many of the attacks on him so over the top, so full of exaggeration and fear mongering that ignores contrary evidence or any sense of proportion that I can’t help but suspect they hyperbole is just a mask for darker motives. The fact that in many cases these attacks come from those who also display great hostility towards Mormonism says it all. Deny it all you want, it is easy to see. For a satirical look at it, check this video I made: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG68yz-mMgE
I am going to make some predictions I would like to make, and I hope this thread stays around so that in years to come you can all look back and see how it turned out:
- every conservative you respect will vote for Mitt, all of them (perhaps a couple excepts, but not many) will even endorse him and perhaps campaign with him
- Mitt will become the next POTUS in a landslide victory,
- President Romney will do very well on the economy and on foreign affairs/national security
- President Romney will conduct himself with honor and integrity both in office and in his personal life
- He will be a better president than either Bush was
- You will hear conservative pundits call him this generation’s Ronald Reagan, or Ronald Reagan’s 3rd term or something along those lines
- President Romney will be re-elected in another big victory
- His Vice President will become POTUS after his second term
- If there is an assassination attempt on him, it will either be by the Chineese, or by some religiously motivated nutjob (Islamic or Evangelical)
And for those of you anti-Mormons out there, I have some prediction for you too. And these apply even if Romney is not elected as POTUS:
- Your grandchildren will call Mormons Christians, and look at Mormonism as the third branch of Christianity alongside Catholicism and Protestantism
- All the attacks against Romney that stem from the anti-Mormon garbage you have bought into will result in the attacker either apologizing, or in their loss of credibility. The more anti-Mormon attacks are made in the mainstream media, the worse the attackers will look.
- Your grandchildren will likewise look at such attacks as being as bigoted and wrong, even when they come from you.
- Some of your grandchildren or great-grandchildren will become Mormons, and after you are dead they will have temple ordinances performed for you, and you will be glad at the time that they do.
I dare you to post your own predictions of what a Romney presidency will result in.
I dare FR to leave this thread open and available for comments and to not delete a single comment from it.
I dare FR to start respecting freedom of religion by not playing favorites towards one religious group as is currently done by disallowing Mormon caucus threads, and if that is too big a challenge for you, the do away with the Religion Forum altogether.
I dare you all to give Mormons and Mormonism the respect it deserves to have as the 4th largest denomination in the USA, stalwart defender of traditional values, glowing example of Christian charity at home and around the world, the most conservative people of all religious groups, and staunch defenders of the principles of the constitution and values that built the country. No matter how much you disagree with us on religious matters, we are and should be treated as valuable conservative allies. Until FR does that, all they do is shoot themselves in the foot.
There’s the look and feel of more than one.
Infant Baptism is not just a Catholic tradition. Anglicans, Orthodox, and many Protestant churches do it. Catholics hold several types of Baptism as part of the sacrament. What is referred to as infant Baptism (Initiation) would be recognized by belief as a dedication ceremony in most Baptist of fundamentalist churches.
It is different than the Catholic Adult Baptism, ‘Baptism by Desire’ which is given to those who can only freely choose or who, ‘through no fault of there own’ can’t freely make the choice before they die (given usually as part of last rights for those who are unable to reach the age of accountability or other reason (mental capacity) can’t freely choose). Unlike some denominations, Catholics believe that one can only be Baptized once ‘by Desire’ and they recognize the Baptism in another Christian denomination as the same.
Also recognized is the Baptism by Blood which is a recognition of those who were martyred for the faith before they can receive Baptism by Desire.
I care not how anyone worships, what they worship, what path they say is the true path or even if they worship anything at all.
What matters is do they want to use government force to make me believe what they believe? Do they want to use government force to limit or ban consensual transactions between consenting adults?
Do they want to use government force for any other reason to defend the US citizens from attacks or to prevent US citizens from harming one another or prosecute those that have harmed others?
Jumping the Shark Placemarker
Yes, the level of political discourse has sadly suffered here for some time.
I am a long-time student of the Holy Bible and the attitudes of many so-called Christians here are primitive and Pharisee-like. This is to be expected among organized religious sects, each assuming its own primacy and private hold on the ‘truth’.
Big deal.
Not.
Great posts!
That was then, now more and more it has felt like FR has dwindled into an insular, nearly feral, group of political and religious thought police whose mission is to ferret out anybody who doesn’t fit their orthodoxy and get rid of them, while propagandizing against anything the disagree with. At times it feels more energy is spent attacking those who should be seen as allies rather than the true enemies.
You have only been here a week. By a majority of the members here Arpaio is likely the most respected person in government around here...I suggest you keep your underlying negative comments about him to yourself if you want to stay.
I come from good Baptist stock on my mother’s side. Growing up, family was also the only practicing Catholic family in a valley where most people had a higher opinion of Jack Chick than the Pope.
I deliberately put the adjective “traditional” in front of Protestant because some caveats are certainly in order, but doing more than noting that would divert the thrust of the thread.
I’d love to see the Bible passage that notes that “Baptism according to the Bible is immersion by those old enough to make a conscious decision to repent of their sins and believe on jesus Christ.”, and then I’d like to see you square it with Acts 16:33, where Paul and Silas baptize their jailer “with all his family.” At the same time, I need to go clean up the kitchen, so I don’t have time for extended debate.
I don’t spend a lot of time on FR anymore, but I can tell you for an absolute certainty that the personal attacks here today are nothing compared to the flame wars during the krinton era. That was truly the age of Titans. I shuddered to read the nearly nuclear shrieking rants back then. The new freedom of the net and the absence if tone in posts led to nothing short of cyber murder in many cases.
Today’s whining weenies need to take their vitamins and they usually go about boasting about some silly educational or vocational merit to bolster their intellectual global supremacy and preening, idiotic claims to know the mind of God.
Think about it and just get over it. If you don’t like people pushing their orthodoxy, get up and get something from the fridge or go weed the garden.
Sheesh.
He survived but he attends a feel good modern independent Protestant church of some kind ~ but the service keeps him awake and interested.
That's how it's done in the real world folks. Buddhist to Baptist with a Catholic lay baptism.
Wait a minute, that's exactly what I was thinking about YOUR post.
I'm sure Mitt will win. And our future will be:
Mitt quote: ...gay couples raising kids. That's the American way...
I blame it all on you.
Thanks.
Slick Willard ? No sale.
Good posts. People for Romney will never find anything wrong with him. God help us.
Speaking of “dare,” I daresay that had Mitt Romney been as conservative as most Mormons, there would be far less acrimony now. But nooooo, he’s been largely indistinguishable from Harry Reid on most issues of the day. Had you gained as fine an appreciation for our founding principles over the course of your being a FReeper, I also daresay that you’d be able to overcome mere tribalism to recognize the weakness of the candidate in this regard. No one ever saw me going to the mat for Mike Huckabee, despite apparent religious common ground. He’s an advocate of big government. There we parted ways. That you apparently are unwilling or unable to do the same says much about your priorities, which would appear to be rather oddly grounded in group identity for a putative constitutional conservative.
Thank you for your thoughtful and substantive contribution to the discussion.
You lie.
- President Romney will do very well on the economy and on foreign affairs/national security
- President Romney will conduct himself with honor and integrity both in office and in his personal life
- He will be a better president than either Bush was
These are not such sweeping claims, are they? Do you really think it impossible that Romney will accomplish these goals? I don't.
There you go again making a personal attack.
Always happy to contribute, sugar lips.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.