When They Come For Your Guns, You Will Turn Them Over

The Daily Reckoning ^ | 8-13-2012 | Jim Karger

[blam]

When They Come For Your Guns, You Will Turn Them Over

August 13, 2012
By Jim Karger

“When they come for my gun, they will have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands,” is a common refrain I often hear from the Neo-Cons when there is a threat, credible or otherwise, that the US government is going to take their firearms.

And, when I hear this crazy talk, I agree with them openly. “You are right. They will pry your gun from your cold dead hands,” which I often follow with the question, “And where will that leave you except face down in a pool of your own blood [in] the middle of the street, just another dead fool resisting the State?”

This is not a question they are comfortable with, if only because the intent of their saber-rattling was to imply they would fight to keep their weapons, and win.

Nice fantasy. It’s not happening.

If the federal government decides to disarm the public, and when the increasingly-militarized rolls down your street after a not-so-subtle request that you kindly turn over your firearms and ammunition “for the common good,” it will be nothing less than suicide by cop to do anything other than what you are told.

The militarization of US police forces is ongoing and escalating. Many cities and towns now own tanks, armed personnel carriers, even attack helicopters, and almost all are outfitted with military weapons not available to the general public.

And, it is not just your hometown cops who are getting new boy-toys. The military itself is buying up weaponry not just for use in the current or next scheduled war, but to deal with the likes of you, citizens who don’t seem to understand that the Bill of Rights has been overruled, and that specifically includes, but is not limited to, the right to protest and engage in civil disobedience.

Also ignored (as if it didn’t even exist) is the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 which generally bars the military from law enforcement activities within the United States.

According to Public Intelligence:

“…for the last two years, the President’s Budget Submissions for the Department of Defense have included purchases of a significant amount of combat equipment, including armored vehicles, helicopters and even artillery, under an obscure section of the FY2008 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) for the purposes of ‘homeland defense missions, domestic emergency responses, and providing military support to civil authorities.’ Items purchased under the section include combat vehicles, tanks, helicopters, artillery, mortar systems, missiles, small arms and communications equipment. Justifications for the budget items indicate that many of the purchases are part of routine resupply and maintenance, yet in each case the procurement is cited as being ‘necessary for use by the active and reserve components of the Armed Forces for homeland defense missions, domestic emergency responses, and providing military support to civil authorities’ under section 1815 of the FY 2008 NDAA.”

And, they are not just arming cops and weekend warriors for domestic purposes. Active duty Marines are now being trained for law enforcement operations all over the world (of which the US remains a part) specifically to deal with civil uprisings, and the US government knows that civil uprisings are coming to a town near you just as soon as the fantasy of a healing economy is shattered, the US dollar fails, and unemployment goes to 30%+ in real numbers.

And, to you tough-talking Neo-Cons with your AR-15 rifles and a few thousand rounds of ammo, here is the reality: they will take your guns, and no, all your Second Amendment bluster aside, you are not going to do anything about it. You are not going to take on a platoon of Marines with state-of-the-art automatic weapons and the best body armor you cannot buy protected by armed personnel carriers and attack helicopters unless you choose to die that day — for nothing. You will either be in the country or out, and if you are in, you will stay in and you will comply.

That is your choice… for the moment.

[PeterPrinciple]

That regulated militia would happen very quickly and i think you’ll be surprised by how well equipped it is.

---

I would hope you are right but this happened very SLOWLY in our revolution. It could have gone either way.

I look at the history of Germany, England, Soviet Union, China. They will come for us individually and threaten us, our wealth, and family. The key word is INDIVIDUALLY.

It is only when we have nothing left to lose that most will fight. And even then, many won’t have a clear understanding of what to fight for. I have wondered what motivated some of our founders, some it would appear considered their lively hood and wealth lost, some were driven by their faith and understanding of God.

Again, I have stood up for what is right and I have stood alone................................. that is human nature, but there are exemptions. But is is important that we understand human nature and history. Most people are sheep. Study the 30’s in Germany. What would you and I have done? There are a lot of individuals and their choices revealed to us in history.

Human nature shows us we will not group up until we have to. We like our independence. Our founders learned AFTER THE BATTLE that a well regulated militia was necessary, but doing this counters human nature.

How does the old story go? When they finally came for me, there was no one left..........

Lets be realists, not pessimists or optimists. It will be a long, hard battle.

[Dead Corpse]

While they take time to collect those arm bands, we take that time to collect our resources and ourselves.

And we may collect a few heads along the way...

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2009/10/mathematics-of-liberty-one-hundred.html

A lot of us former .mil types kept practicing once we were no longer Active duty. I was a 5th award Expert rifle and 2nd pistol. I've since built my own rifles that are much more accurate. Some of us are in 3-gun competition, some hunt, some collect dust. Every one of us remembers...

[papertyger]

Nevertheless, people here are seriously underestimating the opposition.

What, in your opinion, would constitute a rational estimation of the opposition?

[sargon]

If the federal government decides to disarm the public, and when the increasingly-militarized [police force] rolls down your street after a not-so-subtle request that you kindly turn over your firearms and ammunition “for the common good,” it will be nothing less than suicide by cop to do anything other than what you are told.

Utter nonsense. There will not be enough "cops" to do all the confiscating, and those who resist will not simply be taken down one by one. They will have to kill large groups of resistors.

Regardless of the level of militarization of the police forces, the author is totally naive if he thinks such operations against the citizens will be either easy or successful. He's dreaming.

If they try it, they will see exactly how fierce the heart of a patriot is...

[Durus]

Also, back in those days, the citizens were armed and organized, and just waiting for a signal. Even if you could still send the same signals, there are no Minutemen on the other end waiting to take up arms with you.

At the inception of the revolutionary war we were just a bunch of guys with guns. We became organized due to need. These days we are much better armed than our forefathers. We outnumber the aggressors in this little theory play by roughly 250 to 1. We know where they live, who their families are, where their children go to school, who they are "seeing" on the side, where they buy their food, where they go to counseling. We are their barbers and their butchers, their plumbers, their IT staff, their accountants, we are nameless and we are legion. They cannot possible "round us all up", they cannot possibly collect even a large percentage of arms in circulation and there is no effective method of stopping us from making more.

The only way we could possibly lose is to not fight and while that is a possibility it's not at this time a very likely one.

[Lady Lucky]

My estimation of the resistance (ie, the American citizens) is based on many factors. Among them, the response to Roe v. Wade; to Kelo; to Waco; to the TSA. Among other factors: the people continue to pay protection money to the govt so it won’t incarcerate and impoverish them for not paying; the people continue to enable the govt financially, when refusal to do so would bring the govt to its knees within weeks. These are not the same caliber of Americans who tracked blood in the wilderness during the Revolution.
I wish it were otherwise. Perhaps you, ctd2, are otherwise. I cannot know that, I can only hope so.

PS: Re Art of War...you let your opponent make the first move when you are ready for it. By far, most are NOT ready.
Not even getting ready. (Basic questions are not, how much ammo have I got and how much food? Basic questions are, when the S appears to HTF, how do I know it isn’t an isolated incident? do I go to work that day? and do the kids go to school that day?)
Moreover, Art of War had a few suggestions about timing offense rather than letting the opponent decide when to start surprising you.

[Lady Lucky]

You really need to quit posting to me, CT. You’re making less sense each time, now you’re projecting as well as name-calling. I don’t sit here all day and I especially avoid wasting time with irrational posters. Over and out.

[papertyger]

I look at the history of Germany, England, Soviet Union, China. They will come for us individually and threaten us, our wealth, and family. The key word is INDIVIDUALLY.

If our people were like their peoples, our country would already be like their countries.

We are also not stupid. We know any authoritarian would like nothing better than to face down individual targets with overwhelming force.

If you call yourself a conservative, why is it you subscribe to the assumptions of the liberal when evaluating our people?

[zeugma]

The problem is, nobody will ever hear about those armed patriots dying for our freedoms. If we ever hear about them at all, we’ll hear they were “domestic terrorists” who were plotting to overthrow the government or commit atrocities.

You have to be willing to die labeled as a 'terrorist' or you shouldn't even be playing the game.

I've had a vision of how I was going to die since I was about 9 years old.  I'm (hold on while I do the math....) 47 now. I recently bought the rifle. Didn't realize it until later.

[Lady Lucky]

I charge .05/word, more when it’s both lengthy and obvious. :)

[papertyger]

My estimation of the resistance (ie, the American citizens) is based on many factors. Among them, the response to Roe v. Wade; to Kelo; to Waco; to the TSA.

Do you think any of those things rises to the standard already set by the Declaration of Independence?

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

I do not. And I don't believe any rational observer would agree with you.

There are no advocates of the Second Amendment that do not understand it is the tripwire signaling the onset of intolerable abuses....

[Envisioning]

Very interesting thread. A door to door confiscation of weapons is not going to happen, not without significant causualties.

As stated earlier, Waco is a really good example of how a 'small' amount of resistance can bring a seemingly unstoppable force to a complete halt.

Remember the "insurgency" in Iraq? Multiply that by, oh, even just a million or so. Somebody hasn't been paying attention to the amount of firearms and ammunition purchased in the last 3 years.

Think people are just going to hand it over. I don't think so.....

[Robert Teesdale]

Yes, from Unintended Consequences, hence the quotation marks. Here's more of it... the prologue from that book is worth reading for every statist.

Today in America, honest, successful, talented, productive, motivated people are once again being stripped of their freedom and dignity and having their noses rubbed in it. The conflict has been building for overhalf a century, and once again warning flags are frantically waving while the instigators rush headlongtowards the abyss, and their doom.

[papertyger]

I charge .05/word, more when it’s both lengthy and obvious. :)

If it were that obvious, it would not have to be lengthy.

[Lady Lucky]

In my opinion, the American colonists revolted against far less onerous offenses than our govt commits against us today.

If you consider Roe v Wade, obamacare, TSA, income taxes, etc. to be “light and transient causes” that do not “rise to the standard set by the Declaration, I am aghast, speechless.

[Lady Lucky]

If it were that obvious, it would not have to be lengthy.

To the contrary, because it should be obvious, I cannot possibly know when to STOP laying out a case to you.

[archy]

And, when I hear this crazy talk, I agree with them openly. “You are right. They will pry your gun from your cold dead hands,” which I often follow with the question, “And where will that leave you except face down in a pool of your own blood [in] the middle of the street, just another dead fool resisting the State?”

This is not a question they are comfortable with, if only because the intent of their saber-rattling was to imply they would fight to keep their weapons, and win.

Nice fantasy. It’s not happening.

Tell it to Tom Wales, shot dead on the basement floor of his own home, just another dead fool resisting the People.

[upcountryhorseman]

Time to bring out the mantra of freedom loving people:
If you have a knife, you can get a rifle; if you have a rifle, you can get a machine gun; If you have a machine gun, you can get an RPG; If you have an RPG, you can get a tank; etc.

[papertyger]

Very interesting thread. A door to door confiscation of weapons is not going to happen, not without significant causualties.

It should also be noted there is a "new" influence in the debate. "Women," both literal and philosophical, have always prized security over liberty. There is no such thing as "acceptable loss" when those losses are the possession of women. As such, any action, plan, or doctrine that does not provide at least a theoretical immunity from loss from the status quo is going to meet significant opposition from that corner.

[archy]

What Good Can a Handgun Do Against an Army.....? End The War on Freedom ^ | June 18, 2003 | Bill St. Clair

Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 6:48:31 PM by 2ndDivisionVet

[excerpt]

A friend of mine owns an instructive piece of history. It is a small, crude pistol, made out of sheet-metal stampings by the U.S. during World War II. While it fits in the palm of your hand and is a slowly-operated, single-shot arm, it's powerful .45 caliber projectile will kill a man with brutal efficiency. With a short, smooth-bore barrel it can reliably kill only at point blank ranges, so its use requires the will (brave or foolhardy) to get in close before firing. It is less a soldier's weapon than an assassin's tool. The U.S. manufactured them by the million during the war, not for our own forces but rather to be air-dropped behind German lines to resistance units in occupied Europe. Crude and slow (the fired case had to be knocked out of the breech by means of a little wooden dowel, a fresh round procured from the storage area in the grip and then manually reloaded and cocked) and so wildly inaccurate it couldn't hit the broad side of a French barn at 50 meters, to the Resistance man or woman who had no firearm it still looked pretty darn good. The theory and practice of it was this: First, you approach a German sentry with your little pistol hidden in your coat pocket and, with Academy-award sincerity, ask him for a light for your cigarette (or the time the train leaves for Paris, or if he wants to buy some non-army-issue food or a perhaps half-hour with your "sister"). When he smiles and casts a nervous glance down the street to see where his Sergeant is at, you blow his brains out with your first and only shot, then take his rifle and ammunition. Your next few minutes are occupied with "getting out of Dodge," for such critters generally go around in packs. After that (assuming you evade your late benefactor's friends) you keep the rifle and hand your little pistol to a fellow Resistance fighter so they can go get their own rifle.

Or maybe you then use your rifle to get a submachine gun from the Sergeant when he comes running. Perhaps you get very lucky and pickup a light machine gun, two boxes of ammunition and a haversack of hand grenades. With two of the grenades and the expenditure of a half-a-box of ammunition at a hasty roadblock the next night, you and your friends get a truck full of arms and ammunition.