Posted on 08/22/2012 3:20:19 PM PDT by shhrubbery!
First, I'm a woman. (Seems to be an important qualification if one is to be allowed to have an opinion on "womens' bodies.")
I'm used to being attacked by the harridans of the Left, who claim that if you're a pro-life, then you're NOT A WOMAN.
But I'm not used to hearing conservatives knee-jerk to the idea that something is "idiotic" just because it's politically incorrect ... according to those same rabid harridans of the Left.
I think, like Akin did, that a woman's endocrine system CAN sometimes "shut down" the process of conception, or implantation, as a result of traumatic stress suffered by the woman.
It so happens there are respected physicians who believe this is possible too: Dr. John C. WIlkie, MD, OB/GYN. And there is some research that tends to back this up (see references at bottom of this page.
We may never have a 100% dispositive study that proves that pregnancy as a result of rape is rare. Real numbers are hard to come by. And sadly, any researcher who attempts an objective study is going to be excoriated like Mark Regnerus (who studied homosexual parenting) or Jay Belsky (who studied the effects of putting children in day care).
But many women know, intuitively, that what Akin said is not "imbecilic." Many women have experience with their endocrine systems going awry, due to stress. I myself have carried four pregnancies to term, but lost one, probably due to stress that caused an endocrine malfunction.
** "Ain't I a woman" is a quote from Sojourner Truth, a strong Christian black woman. She wasn't going to stand for her opinion being shut down because she was (a) a woman and (b) voicing ideas that weren't popular in some circles. And neither am I.
He hasn’t rebutted a single thing, just more “well technically...blah blah.” Not a single factual statement to rebut Akin’s idiocy and general weirdness. The Flat Earth Society of Akin supporters keeps trying earnestly, not noticing that you’re in the very small minority that still is supporting this nut.
can you express something factual or substantive?
Great point. If abortion is wrong, it’s always wrong. If murder is wrong it’s always wrong. But...if one kills another in defense then it’s not murder, if one kills a non-human (e.g. calf) it’s not murder. So in the case of a pregnancy brought about by rape, is abortion OK because it’s a defense of life and limb, or because the pregnancy is not human? I think it’s rarely defense of life and limb, but if early enough in the pregnancy many will argue the fetus is not a living human so in that case abortion is not wrong/Murder. The reverse of this is also true...once the fetus is considered a “living human” (however that’s accomplished) aborting it becomes murder, rape or not.
The defense of life and limb argument could also apply when the life of the mother is threatened by the pregnancy to the point that she determines she needs to defend her life - it’s her state of mind that determines the threat, not someone else’s. No different from George Zimmerman defending his life with deadly force.
The reality is abortion of some form is here to stay, like it or not. I for one do not want to see all conservative/libertarian ideas lost because of a few unrealistic individuals who pull the entire conservative cause down a rat hole.
That's good! Majority opinion is very important. lol
First of all, what he said was pure unadulterated bunk.
Secondly, what he said casts doubt on the legitimacy of the supposedly “rare” cases where a woman’s body doesn’t “shut that down”.
It was absurd and creepy and wrong.
The Flat Earth Legitimate Rape Society of Akin supporters
Does that argument hold any water?
The defense of life and limb argument could also apply when the life of the mother is threatened by the pregnancy to the point that she determines she needs to defend her life - it’s her state of mind that determines the threat, not someone else’s.
According to long established legal opinion that would be a medical determination not a personal emotional one.
<”I have a question why, besides pregnancy does a woman miss her period?”””>>>
A more important question considering what we are discussing would be is....... what would cause a woman to have a period before the normal 28 days?
The answer is “stress”!
GOP keeps "piling on" and Akin keeps fighting back.
Akin wins big due to popular backlash at "outsiders" telling people in Missouri what to do.
Nice play whomever.
Tell it to the troll that claimed the GOP platform forbids aborting in the case of rape, incest and mother’s life.
That’s what set off my troll detector.
I am a Republican woman and I agree with what Akin and this poster said. Akin said it badly but I agree that stress can cause a woman’s body to react in unexpected ways.
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Hoping you will not be around much longer is now censorship? LOL- Lighten up Francis.
I said in your brief 2 months on this site that there were "lots and lots of name calling and "I'm smarter than you". If you desire a "well reasoned" answer to why I hope your stay is short, we can take a look at the way you treat your fellow Freepers:
"you’re in the very small minority-are you for real-Do you even understand-you have 10 seconds to counter that with something that's easily understandable-Keep grasping for straws though, it is entertaining.- Please stop making everything a conspiracy.- Not sure if you’re paying attention-Whose side are you on anyways? You sound like one of those suicidal one-issue voters-I’m not usually one to go for conspiracy theories but I have a growing suspicion that-Do you live in a bubble-Don’t bother, he’s as thick as a brick wall, just like Akin, logic does not apply.- you’re reading something without understanding what you’re reading.- You sound like the right-wing version of Peggy, the Obama voter who thought she was going to have her mortgage and car paid for-You’re absolutely insane if you believe that-You’ve clearly hit your head-studies that you don’t even comprehend-HOLY crap, calling you dumb was being kind.- stop trying to push material that you yourself can’t understand, you obviously don’t comprehend what the article states otherwise you would understand that it is irrelevant to this conversation.- work on your reading comprehension bub, and stop trying to debate subjects that you have no knowledge of.- Another guy who doesn’t comprehend what the article states.- Good God you are just as dumb as Akin.- Do you even understand what this is telling you? I love it when people post articles beyond their own comprehension.- the point you were trying to make is meaningless, you should really read your own source material-totally irrelevant to what the adults are discussing, please try and work on your reading comprehension.- I think both you and her have a poor understanding of science in general.- how do things work in your world?- If you still can’t see that, well then, I feel sorry for you.- Do you people never learn?- you my dear are pounding the table awfully loud and making quite a spectacle of yourself.- I honestly don’t even think you know what you’re arguing here.- you exhibit those authoritarian tendencies oh so well.- doesn’t speak too highly of your mental capacity and overall judgment.- people like you are absolutely delusional. You’re way too insulated, assuming that everyone thinks just the way you do-I’m not a Kool-Aid drinking homer like you that can’t see the forest through the trees-Your comment is exactly why conservatives are stereotyped as backwards neanderthals.- Okay, let me explain this to you real slowly so you can understand this.- Seeing previously unimagined levels of ignorance from you-you sound just as ignorant as he does.- The point flew right over your head.- either you don’t understand the question or don’t understand what your own source-Keep sipping your Kool-Aid-Your logic is lousy.- This is one of the most ridiculous comments I’ve yet to hear on here, are you for real? Seriously?"
"Its all about standards, if you don’t have any yourself, then its easy to point at others. I guess I just have higher expectations than you do."
"I’m someone who works in the medical field.- My degree is in biology-Having worked in sales, I can tell you that its really not possible to overestimate the stupidity of a considerable amount of people out there."
"I’ve met some absolutely brilliant people who had no more than a high-school diploma. On the other hand some of the biggest, most helpless fools I’ve known were extremely well educated."
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At least your last sentence I agree with…
Actually, half of all fertilized ova do not implant to cause a pregnancy. Stress can decrease the number that implant. Of the implanted blastocysts, 50% to 75% miscarry before the woman knows she is pregnant. Stress can increase that number. So, yes, it *is* true that rape decreases the number of clinically diagnosed pregnancies. Furthermore, rape increases the rate of miscarriage of diagnosed pregnancies. Upshot: Akin may not fully understand the scientific background and does not have the scientific fluency to clearly express what he was thinking, he *was* correct.
I was taught in high school back in the 1970s that women almost never get pregnant from rape, and I've seen that concept expressed several times since. Why is it now, when a conservative says it, all of a sudden the most ludicrous idea on earth? It shouldn't even be controversial.
(Of course, the question of whether the rare child conceived by rape deserves to die because of it is a different issue.)
Trying to inject some facts and science into this absurd non-story.
***********
(This one is a bit technical but the following section sums it up rather well.)
We should bear in mind that an acute-stress-induced surge of LH is shortly preceded by an elevation of serum progesterone from the adrenal glands. This fact suggests that such an elevation of serum progesterone may advance the secretory transformation of the endometrium resulting in embryo-endometrium asynchrony and consequently reduced chances of implantation and pregnancy if ovulation and fertilization took place.
http://www.rbej.com/content/8/1/53
“The most common causes of failure to ovulate are:
Stress, weight fluctuations, Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome (P.C.O.S.). Other causes may include disorders of the pituitary gland, thyroid gland and raised prolactin levels.”
http://cairoivf.com/treatments-ovulation_induction.html
“In conclusion, acute stress on the day of proestrus can affect female reproductive physiology. Moreover, the angiotensinergic system, through AT(1) receptors, participates in the effects of acute stress in the morning of proestrus.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17573075
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Animal breeding also is affected by stress. Zoos, in particular, have difficulty getting some animals to reproduce in captivity, Bentley said.
Based on animal experiments, researchers attribute much of this stress effect on sexual function to an increase in glucocorticoids - stress hormones - produced by the adrenal gland. In the brain, these glucocorticoids suppress the main reproductive hormone, GnRH, which in turn causes a shut-down of the release of the gonadotropins luteinizing hormone and follicle-stimulating hormone by the pituitary, and then a suppression of testosterone, estradiol and sexual behavior.
In 2000, however, a new reproductive hormone was discovered in birds and dubbed gonadotropin-inhibitory hormone (GnIH) because it had the opposite effect of GnRH - it inhibited release of gonadotropins, thereby suppressing reproduction.
“It’s very adaptive to not be wasting resources on reproduction during times of acute stress, to just shut down reproduction for 24 hours or so until the stress is gone,” said co-author Daniela Kaufer, a UC Berkeley assistant professor of integrative biology who looks at how stress affects molecular processes in the brain. “These functions go back in evolution a long way.”
. . ..
Kirby showed that acutely stressed rats showed increased RFRP levels for several hours, but that levels returned to normal by the next day. Chronically stressed rats, however, were left with longer-term elevations of RFRP levels in the dorsomedial hypothalamus area of the brain, and suppression of activity in the reproductive axis - the hypothalamus-pituitary-gonadal hormone cascade - that is associated with lowered sexual activity.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/154116.php
******
There certainly are instances of “illegitimate rape.” There are the women who cry rape the morning after, statutory rape as mentioned earlier, false rape claims like the Duke case, and other circumstances wherein the image of a violent, forced rape is not the truth of the matter. Perhaps “illegitimate” was the wrong word to use among people whose only definition of “illegitimate” is “fake” or “born outside of wedlock,” but the word can be used as a synonym for invalid or otherwise not generally accepted.
A more savvy politician would recognize that too many of our neighbors are painfully ignorant with pathetic English language skills but I was under the impression we wanted real people to run for office, people who haven’t been schooled in the fine art of politics. Seems I was wrong.
Oh well. I still think this Akin thing is going to fizzle out like the Fluck fiasco no matter which way it ends up.
Hey, I’d agree with that! (Not a Romney fan)
OK, you win. Romney's got to go!
You can’t claim he is right either.
Not much for a person vying for a seat in Congress to bet his career on.
His only defense is stupidity.
LOL, what timing. We both got around to replying to each other at 11:40:05 PM. So is that a good omen for Akin’s Senate career or a bad one?
Women almost never get pregnant from rape because the rapists doesn’t time the rape to coincide with her cycle.
Geez.
You mean legitimate rapists, of course?!
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