Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Vanity - An Attempt at a Concise Gun Control Argument
12/17/12 | dagogo redux

Posted on 12/17/2012 1:33:24 PM PST by dagogo redux

Historically, the world’s worst gun violence against fellow citizens has overwhelmingly occurred when the military and police forces of would be tyrants were not balanced by an adequately armed citizenry.


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: 2ndamendment; banglist; guncontrol; tyranny; vanity
I'm trying to formulate a concise statement that refutes the essence of the Left's gun control arguments in light of recent events.

Thoughts, re-wordings, slings and arrows are all welcome.

1 posted on 12/17/2012 1:33:33 PM PST by dagogo redux
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: dagogo redux

Click image to download poster in PDF format

Click image to download poster in PDF format

2 posted on 12/17/2012 1:34:25 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum ("The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the state." - Cornelius Tacitus, Roman Senator)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dagogo redux

As Rush said today, I will give up my firearms when you can absolutely guarantee I will never face an attacker for the rest of my life.

Until then, I will defend myself and my family until help can arrive.


3 posted on 12/17/2012 1:36:09 PM PST by Erik Latranyi (When religions have to beg the gov't for a waiver, we are already under socialism.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dagogo redux

Here’s your answer.

The constitution allows for gun ownership. The SC recently confirmed it. Until the constitution is amended, there is no argument required.

Let them argue that.


4 posted on 12/17/2012 1:37:29 PM PST by Norm Lenhart
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dagogo redux
Conneticut has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation, schools are “gun free zones”, if gun control laws worked, all those young souls would still be with us.
5 posted on 12/17/2012 1:38:05 PM PST by exnavy (Got ammo, Godspeed!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dagogo redux

Great Britain’s gun crime rate has doubled since it outlawed handguns after the Dunblane massacre.


6 posted on 12/17/2012 1:40:33 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum ("The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the state." - Cornelius Tacitus, Roman Senator)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dagogo redux
Gun Crime Soars in England Where Guns Are Banned
7 posted on 12/17/2012 1:42:06 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum ("The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the state." - Cornelius Tacitus, Roman Senator)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dagogo redux

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8RDWltHxRc

“Watch what happens when Guns are banned in Australia”


8 posted on 12/17/2012 1:42:21 PM PST by Bradís Gramma (Psalm 83)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dagogo redux

Tens of Millions of Americans own firearms, are law abiding citizens, and do not run around committing murder with those firearms.


9 posted on 12/17/2012 1:44:03 PM PST by Pox (Good Night. I expect more respect tomorrow.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dagogo redux

Self defense is my right, and our government has no right to ban the sale of a firearm that will provide that defense.


10 posted on 12/17/2012 1:45:35 PM PST by Pox (Good Night. I expect more respect tomorrow.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Norm Lenhart

I’m really, really worried about what Obama said.

“regardless of the politics...”

Read between the lines.

He was saying “No matter what, to hell with the Constitution and Congress, we’re gonna do something...”


11 posted on 12/17/2012 1:47:54 PM PST by djf (Conservative values help the poor. Liberal values help them STAY poor!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: dagogo redux

You want concise wording for gun control.....

Second Amendment

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Ratified on December 17, 1791


12 posted on 12/17/2012 1:49:21 PM PST by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dagogo redux

The American Revolution began when the British tried to disarm the Colonists. (In Massachusetts of all places!)

It would be fitting if the Revolution ended with the Colonists demanding to be disarmed.


13 posted on 12/17/2012 1:51:46 PM PST by Tzimisce (What do you do when every every branch of the government is corrupt and aligned against you?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dagogo redux


14 posted on 12/17/2012 1:52:44 PM PST by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dagogo redux
Try any of these:
15 posted on 12/17/2012 1:55:46 PM PST by Yosemitest (It's Simple ! Fight, ... or Die !)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dagogo redux

Government does not grant rights, it can only recognize rights given by God. We have a natural right to keep and bear arms for defense of our life and liberty and property.


16 posted on 12/17/2012 1:58:11 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Norm Lenhart

2A is the last guarantee of our residual freedoms and rights. It goes, so do the rest.

It’s not 2A the Left is after; it’s the whole ball game.


17 posted on 12/17/2012 1:58:17 PM PST by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: dagogo redux
I once debated the National Spokesman for the Brady Campaign live on my radio show.

He had no retort to my angle.

Only the 1st, 2nd and 4th Amendments contain the phrase "The right of the people".

I applied the logic of the gungrabber to the other amendments..."So you mean the 1st amendment only applies to Government approved journalism groups ?"...."So that would mean that only government employees are safe from unreasonable search and seizure ?"...

This method has no defendable ground.

When he went into the predictable "The founding fathers never foresaw assault weapons" I responded with "neither did they foresee internet pornography or surveilance cameras".

Stay away from the standard "militia" definitions, the word has been over demonized. Thank God for us that our founders used the phrase "The right of the People". Use it.

Also know that in the end, no debate won or lost will amount to a hill of beans. Sooner or later this will turn into a civil war.

18 posted on 12/17/2012 1:58:17 PM PST by SENTINEL (I lie, I cheat, I steal, I communize, I sacrifice unborn babies, I'm Harry Reid and I'm a mormon)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dagogo redux

Criminals prefer unarmed victims, especially when said criminals hold public office.


19 posted on 12/17/2012 1:59:43 PM PST by ZirconEncrustedTweezers (Some cultures are destined to remain stupid and we need to quit trying to uplift them.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Erik Latranyi

I will give up my guns when I’m dead.

They will go to my brother then.

Nothing else.


20 posted on 12/17/2012 2:00:05 PM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: dagogo redux
I would recommend sourcing “The Black Book on Communism” or something very close to that title. You can use documented suppression of the populace by the central government and then link that to the “gun control” laws of the various nations at those times.

Then you could run the same comparisons of various right leaning dictatorships in Latin America and come up with approximately the same results.

The two sides of the aisle should blunt most counter arguments.

Then toss in Lott's book as the cherry on top.

21 posted on 12/17/2012 2:00:54 PM PST by Nip (BOHEICA and TANSTAAFL - both seem very appropriate today.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: E. Pluribus Unum
Please allow me to mention the book that goes along with those excellent posters.


22 posted on 12/17/2012 2:01:04 PM PST by SENTINEL (I lie, I cheat, I steal, I communize, I sacrifice unborn babies, I'm Harry Reid and I'm a mormon)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Norm Lenhart
The constitution allows for gun ownership.

The Constitution enshrines a pre-existing right to gun ownership.

23 posted on 12/17/2012 2:03:59 PM PST by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: MileHi

Yes it does. I stand corrected.


24 posted on 12/17/2012 2:05:32 PM PST by Norm Lenhart
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: dagogo redux

(1) Man has an inherent right to self defense, either from lone threats or organized ones.

(2) Guns aren’t for hunting animals; they’re for hunting tyrants. The Founders were armed revolutionaries who rebelled against the superpower of their era. The Right to Bear Arms ain’t for hunting geese; it’s for hunting armed men who wish to subjugate you.

(3) Criminals, lunatics and governments have zero respect for targets that have no ability to resist. They never have, and they never will. Imagine what America would look like today if the native Americans had machine guns? It wouldn’t be America at all. Even here in peaceful, liberal California, we wiped out the native tribes so thoroughly we don’t even know what most of their names were, and then built prison camps for the Japanese on top of that land. Human nature is what it is, and will never change. The weak will always be prey for the strong. Always.

(4) The military doesn’t ‘protect your freedoms’. That’s a pleasant fiction. Individuals standing for their own rights protect their freedoms. Individuals that refuse to stand for their own rights cannot be kept free by the arms of others forever.

(5) All these ‘Western democracies and industrialized nations that don’t have private firearm ownership and work just fine’ were either Axis powers or conquered lands until we forced them to be otherwise, and we continue to occupy them with U.S. troops. Their freedom and social stability is exists at the behest of the U.S. Department of Defense. Once we pull out and Pax Americana ends, these nations will revert back to collectivism and tyranny.

(6) Why does anyone need an ‘assault rifle’? Because the government has them. In 1790, private citizens not only owned ‘military grade rifles’, but cannons and warships. Private citizens may not need rockets and nuclear weapons, but they do need individual weaponry on par with the government’s individual weaponry.

(7) But what about the children? They live in a world where guns will either cause the occasional shooting spree, or the occasional genocide. And so do you. There is no other option. Unarmed men are prey, who live in the shadow of their masters. At best, you can hope for kind ones, but masters never stay kind forever.

And that’s that.


25 posted on 12/17/2012 2:12:02 PM PST by Steel Wolf ("Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master." - Gaius Sallustius Crispus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dagogo redux

It’s in the Bill of Rights. If you want to ban gun ownership, change the constitution or go live somewhere else.


26 posted on 12/17/2012 2:12:22 PM PST by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: chris37

note: Senator Feinstein’s remarks from Sunday. She plans on submitting a bill part of which forbids you to transfer or sell any of your arms to anyone!
I read that as a Government Taking, which I always thought was unconstitutional.

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/takings.htm

Correct me if I’m wrong.


27 posted on 12/17/2012 2:21:41 PM PST by GOYAKLA (Waiting for the Golden Screw to be removed from Obama's navel!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Servant of the Cross

Your poster with the six faces is about the most effective summary I’ve seen yet. I’m afraid most of the rest of the arguments won’t hold much sway with the Left.

What I’m trying to say is along those lines, but less visually dramatic. I thing yours easily appeals to people, whether they can think critically or not (which most Lefties cannot).


28 posted on 12/17/2012 2:24:33 PM PST by dagogo redux (A whiff of primitive spirits in the air, harbingers of an impending descent into the feral.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Norm Lenhart
"there is no argument required."

In principle there is no argument required. However, if the argument is not made right now- whenever and wherever possible, the left will try to disarm this nation. And they will do it so they can have ultimate control over us.

Very few of our citizens understand that this is what their (leftists) ultimate goal is. Nor do they know what history says ,(as stated above), will happen when you let politicians disarm you.

This needs to change now. People need to wake up.

29 posted on 12/17/2012 2:24:49 PM PST by Pajamajan (Pray for our nation. Thank the Lord for everything you have. Don't wait. Do it today.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: GOYAKLA

To be perfectly honest, I do not give a **** about her illegal law, which flagrantly infringes upon the right of the people to bear arms.

Diane Feinstein is not my God, and my rights do not originate with her.


30 posted on 12/17/2012 2:34:04 PM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Pajamajan

To clarify my statement...

We waste time arguing with the emotionality of the left. It is a fact that the constitution has a second amendment. That amendment has a clear definition. It accomplishes nothing for us to do anything but repeat the wording of that amendment.

The left has a constitutional ‘remedy’. They can amend the constitution. It is up to us to give them no other option. And getting sidetracked on anything emotional they dig up is self defeating.

MAKE THEM ADDRESS THE CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUE. No more, no less.

And lets see them alienate half their own gun owning base as they try.

As for Obama, same thing. Let him exec order all he wants. Then let him attempt to enforce it through all the lawsuits that will immeadiately follow, drain his political capital and make half his gun owning supporters bail on him.

Same for the media. Let them keep ranting and get the NRA off it’s ass to address them on the constitutionality of it all.


31 posted on 12/17/2012 2:34:42 PM PST by Norm Lenhart
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: dagogo redux
In addition to what I posted above, I would add one thing. Not as an argument, but a tactic. Don't deny or downplay your gun ownership. If you've ever bought a single weapon and had a background check, you're in the system and always will be.

So, don't hide. Be loud and proud. "Yes, I own guns. Handguns. Assault rifles. Shotguns. What of it?"

Strip this 'boating accident' nonsense out of your vocabulary. This is the language of fear. Don't be afraid. Society is more support of gun rights now than at any time in the last 30 years. Take advantage of that. Make it known you aren't ashamed or afraid to admit you own weapons. You can't hide, and you shouldn't have to, so instead, help make firearms more socially acceptable.

32 posted on 12/17/2012 2:37:26 PM PST by Steel Wolf ("Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master." - Gaius Sallustius Crispus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: combat_boots

>> 2A is the last guarantee of our residual freedoms and rights. It goes, so do the rest.

Should “it go”, we’re under the tyrannical control of an enemy to the Constitution. Arguably, the 2nd Amendment will never go.


33 posted on 12/17/2012 2:39:22 PM PST by Gene Eric (Demoralization is a weapon of the enemy. Don't get it, don't spread it!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: djf
I’m really, really worried about what Obama said.

This miserable excuse of a human and is so consumed in being America's first dictator he will destroy our ability to protect ourselves. The biggest fear in America is the very government itself.

34 posted on 12/17/2012 2:53:05 PM PST by Logical me
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: dagogo redux

It’s a jungle out there... and the only thing that goes into the jungle unarmed is dinner.


35 posted on 12/17/2012 2:58:42 PM PST by Boogieman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dagogo redux
How is this for concise?

μολὼν λαβέ


36 posted on 12/17/2012 3:00:14 PM PST by wastoute (Government cannot redistribute wealth. Government can only redistribute poverty.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pajamajan

This was my original point, to attempt a concise argument that might get through to the Useful Idiots on the Left.

The True Believers will never be swayed, because they want tyranny.

Useful Idiots probably won’t want tyranny if they understand it, and may not want gun control if they understand the role gun control has repeatedly played in initiating tyranny. These people certainly aren’t going to be swayed by Constitutional arguments or Natural Law or any such cerebral stuff, but a clear articulation of history, on a gut level, may make a dent. Otherwise . . .


37 posted on 12/17/2012 3:05:50 PM PST by dagogo redux (A whiff of primitive spirits in the air, harbingers of an impending descent into the feral.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: dagogo redux

The American Left is the “domestic enemy” of the Constitution as written and amended, which is why they always want it “interpreted” by un-elected black robes with no authority to do so.


38 posted on 12/17/2012 3:10:32 PM PST by DTogo (High time to bring back The Sons of Liberty !!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Norm Lenhart; sickoflibs
The constitution allows for gun ownership. The SC recently confirmed it. Until the constitution is amended, there is no argument required.

Here's what we should do:

Every time there's a mass killing - conservatives should call for laws to require all citizens to attend a Church or Temple weekly. When liberals say it's unconstitutional, we'll tell them taking away our guns is unconstitutional too - and that doesn't stop them. Why should it stop us?

Let's do it.

Every crisis, every horror, every time children are gunned down... WE WILL USE THAT CRISIS top push an unconstitutional agenda.

Just like liberals do.

Anyone want to bet the suck ups at the New York Times will all of a sudden start caring about the Constitution?

39 posted on 12/17/2012 3:38:03 PM PST by GOPJ (Detroit should be renamed 'Michael Mooresville'...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: dagogo redux
Amendment II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

MOLON LAVE!

End of discussion.

40 posted on 12/17/2012 4:17:53 PM PST by TigersEye (Who is John Galt?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TigersEye

America’s private citizens should be restricted when it comes to the kind of guns they can own.

They should only be allowed to own the guns that the government’s standing army’s soldiers have access to.


41 posted on 12/17/2012 4:23:49 PM PST by MarDav
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: dagogo redux
1. We keep and bear arms with no restrictions. Eliminate gun free zones by eliminating all federal restrictions on keeping and bearing arms since they are unconstitutional.

2. Determine which weapons fall under well-regulated which means well-equipped and well-trained. Well-equipped means well-equipped to deter all enemies, foreign and domestic. Domestic enemies includes every type of criminal or lunatic who attacks our society including schools. Someone asked about fighter jets on another thread. But they probably can't name a domestic enemy that requires such firepower in the militia.

3. Finally make sure everyone is aware of their responsibility. The militia is every able-bodied man (now includes women). As mentioned they must be well trained and well equipped. Teachers will have to step up and get training. The Nancy Lanzas of the world will have to secure their weapons, but obviously a mass shooting like last week will be much more difficult once the teachers are trained to resist.

42 posted on 12/17/2012 4:30:04 PM PST by palmer (Obama = Carter + affirmative action)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MarDav
That doesn't work for me! ;^)
43 posted on 12/17/2012 4:31:19 PM PST by TigersEye (Who is John Galt?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: Steel Wolf

My license plate states (to the state) that I am a gun owner.


44 posted on 12/17/2012 4:35:15 PM PST by palmer (Obama = Carter + affirmative action)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: TigersEye

Classic! I’m going to shop Priceline right now...I KNOW that guy can get me the price I’m looking for.


45 posted on 12/17/2012 4:41:18 PM PST by MarDav
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: MarDav

He can hook you up with a real sweet Orion slave girl too if you don’t mind a green chick.


46 posted on 12/17/2012 4:49:09 PM PST by TigersEye (Who is John Galt?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: Norm Lenhart

The Constitution, or more correctly the Bill of Rights, allows nothing. You’re statement reeks of Fail.


47 posted on 12/17/2012 4:52:37 PM PST by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Lurker

Sorry. I was under the impression that the 2A was not “more or less correct” in being a part of the Constitution. Simply that, more correctly, it IS part of the Constitution.

Fail indeed.
As for the rest, see post 24


48 posted on 12/17/2012 5:04:12 PM PST by Norm Lenhart
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: Lurker

PS, when making a point, “You’re” probably better to use correct grammar when flaming someone.


49 posted on 12/17/2012 5:05:57 PM PST by Norm Lenhart
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: GOPJ
I think maybe the ‘gun free zone’ signs were too small.

If they were bigger, and had a big fine on them like handicapped parking signs did that would have stopped him,
Here its $180 fine to park there without the sticker. That would make him think twice.

50 posted on 12/17/2012 7:24:16 PM PST by sickoflibs (Dems know how to win. Rs know how to whine.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson