Posted on 01/19/2013 5:28:00 AM PST by upchuck
Having lost her appeal, 15 year-old student Andrea Hernandez is leaving John Jay High School after school officials denied her request to allow her to continue her "education uninterrupted" by permitting her to use her old (chipless) ID badge which "does not signify participation in a program which I believe conflicts with my religious beliefs."
In her handwritten letter, Hernandez writes: "I do not wish to wear the new badge, even without the RFID chip, because it signifies participation in the program."
Hernandez, who has been threatened with expulsion for refusing to wear a chipless RFID tracking badge, had her request for a preliminary injunction denied by the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals and the Western District of Texas. Rutherford Institute attorneys argue the school is violating her rights under Texas' Religious Freedom Act and the First and Fourteenth Amendments to the U.S. Constitution.
"The case will definitely move forward now, and hopefully, we will eventually find justice in the courts," John W. Whitehead, president of The Rutherford Institute says.
Hernandez had been hoping the school would compromise. "If they dig in their heels, however, she will have to change schools," Rutherford told "The Right Views."
There was a committee that determined what books were in the Bible. Revelation was a problem because it seemed important it had been submitted. But.......no one could agree on what it said or meant. It got grandfathered in
My husband is required to wear a picture ID.
I am a teacher - we teachers are required to wear picture ID’s at all times. However, the students are not required to do so.
My BIL wears a picture ID with RFID tracker - he works for a defense contractor in MO.
This type of requirement is pretty common in anything but a very small business.
By the way, government schooling is compulsory ( that means the back up support of police force) for all children for whom parents can not ransom them by way of homeschooling or private schooling. Government school taxes and cartel practices make the unavailability of those options unlikely. Its godless philosophy is also established by way of government threat of police action.
And that is my point. Of course if someone has a religious objection to wearing an ID badge, they could refuse to take the job and I’m fine with that. OTOH, since it is required at my place of work, we could refuse employment to someone who objected or terminate someone who later refused since the requirement is in our employment handbook, which all employees are required to read and sign at the time they are hired. Not all the employers I’ve worked for have been “large” BTW. One had under 50 employees but we were a tech company and handled sensitive HIPPA protected information. Wearing ID cards with door access programmed in was also a requirement of the building management as we shared a building with several other companies. My ID badge was needed for elevator access after normal business hours and the elevator would not operate or stop on floors other than those of my company based on the magnetic strip on my ID card.
And that is my point. Of course if someone has a religious objection to wearing an ID badge, they could refuse to take the job and I’m fine with that. OTOH, since it is required at my place of work, we could refuse employment to someone who objected or terminate someone who later refused since the requirement is in our employment handbook, which all employees are required to read and sign at the time they are hired. Not all the employers I’ve worked for have been “large” BTW. One had under 50 employees but we were a tech company and handled sensitive HIPPA protected information. Wearing ID cards with door access programmed in was also a requirement of the building management as we shared a building with several other companies. My ID badge was needed for elevator access after normal business hours and the elevator would not operate or stop on floors other than those of my company based on the magnetic strip on my ID card.
I agree with you. Option 3 makes sense. At the same time, there are millions of educated, smart and successful parent plus millions of non-parent tax payers who believe that modern high schools are like they were in the 1950s. As to being on the wrong forum, I replied to a thread someone else started. In my comments I haven’t screen yelled at anyone or been snarky to anyone. What I’ve tried to do is help folks under stand that there just may be valid, non-conspiratorial, good faith efforts being made by well intentioned people to make schools safer.
There are large economies of scale in huge schools, which is why government schools are built that way, however it's not a healthy environment for a developing child. High population density is strongly correlated with developing leftism. Government schools are manufacturing socialists. The odds of making the football team or being a cheerleader or valedictorian in a school of 3,000 are not good. About 2,000 of the students will give up competing. Why try when they've been taught they always lose? Throwing kids in the ocean to save money is permanently imprinting them with being losers. Schools for children should not be so large the teachers don't know everyone's name. Needing ID badges a clue something is very wrong.
Don’t know. There are so many wacky religions/cults anymore it’s impossible to track all of ‘em.
Am I to understand you correctly that you consider an employer who requires ID cards to be “abusive” or such work places “prison like”? Would you refuse to work for an employer that required ID cards or even RDIF cards? If so, on what basis? Do you consider ID cards with or without RDIF chips to really be the “mark of the beast”? If so, is this part of your home schooling curriculum? I’m not meaning this question to be any sort of criticism of you or an insult to you, so please do not take it as such, I’m just trying to understand where you are coming from on this topic, i.e. on ID cards.
By the way, government schooling is compulsory ( that means the back up support of police force) for all children for whom parents can not ransom them by way of homeschooling or private schooling. Government school taxes and cartel practices make the unavailability of those options unlikely. Its godless philosophy is also established by way of government threat of police action.
I’m not at all opposed to private schools nor am I opposed to home schooling and think that choice should be available. I’ve known some very bright and well educated people who have been home schooled just as I’ve known some very bright and well educated people who attended private AND public schools. My public schooling experienced was somewhat mixed but the education I received at my HS in the late 70’s, a magnet school, an all girls public HS BTW with very high standards including behavioral, was excellent and on par with many rather expensive and exclusive private schools at the time.
And I don’t agree with a lot of what goes on in many public schools now days either. But I also think that there was a time that America’s free public educational system was once of the best in the world and I’d like to see our public schools return to those once high standards. Why?
Not every family can afford private schools, nor do I believe that private schools should be supported by public funds. Why? Because then the private schools are beholding to complete government control and are by defacto, become “public” schools. Nor do I believe that home schooling is the answer for everyone. Why?
Home schooling is not practical for every family, especially in families where because of economic realities, both parents work or in single parent households. Also, to be very frank, homeschooling requires a very big commitment and a certain level of education by the parent who is overseeing the homeschooling and again, realistically and quite frankly, not all people are up to the task. Sure there are some excellent homeschooling text books and guides but if a parent isn’t themselves educated enough to follow them, then you are basically throwing your kid some books and asking them to educate themselves. That might work for some very bright and self motivated kids but is not realistic in many other cases.
There is also the question of educational standards. I understand that homeschooled kids have to take and pass standardized tests in order to receive a HS diploma or equivalent and I think that’s a good thing. As someone who works in HR and hires people who must have at least a HS diploma for many jobs, a note from “Mom” saying “Johnny had done real good like on his education, knows his maths and stuff – love, Johnny’s Mom” isn’t going to cut it. I think homeschooling is a great option for those like you who are fully committed and are up to the task and make use of curriculums developed by credentialed homeschooling resources but I don’t think that “do it yourself” homeschooling absent standardization of basic requirements is an acceptable alternative. I’m sure that you as a dedicated homeschooling mom would agree with that.
But getting back to the original gist of the thread, this was not about the quality of the education that Andrea Hernandez was receiving at her school, whether she’d get a superior education by being homeschooled; rather it was about the required use of ID badges, RFID badges in particular and whether or not it was some sort of violation of her 1st amendment rights. Since she was given the option of using the very same sort of ID card she voluntarily used before, absent the RFID chip, she choose not to wear it and I think the school was within their rights to tell her to seek her education elsewhere. Again, while she may have a religious objection to such ID cards, what I was trying to highlight is that she would face the same in many places of employment, that while she has a choice to refuse to work for such employers, she is also limiting herself to many opportunities and for some rather IMO, shaky grounds. While the RDIF chips are used to mark attendance and some may rightly believe that this has more to do with government funding based on attendance than it does safety, there is a safety component to such ID cards as it is also a way to ensure that kids who come to school and go to homeroom and have their attendance marked and present then leave the school grounds after homeroom as a truant or hide out in other places in the school where they are not supposed to be, perhaps doing things they ought not to be doing or engaging in when or even forcibly taken to against their will when they are supposed to be in class. If I were a parent, I wouldn’t necessarily have a problem with this. YMMV.
My position:
It is ABUSIVE to place one’s child in a school where she is in danger of being raped.
My comment had absolutely nothing to do with citizens **voluntarily** seeking work with an employer who uses identification tags.
And...There is a big difference between **willingly** seeking work with an employer and being under police threat to attend a prison-like school where one is likely to be RAPED!
If an adult would object to being under police threat to be FORCED into an institution where they are likely to be RAPED, why do we think this would be good for children? Huh?
Finally....There are some government schools in this nation that are, indeed, soooooo horrific that it would be better for the child to **never** attend. Illiteracy and innumeracy can be fixed. Dead and/or raped can't be.
Big difference!
It is amazing that the arguments used by government school defenders are the very points that argue for the complete shut down of this abusive and corrupt socialist entitlement of government schooling and moving toward complete privatization.
1) Chips? Geeze! . Is the government schooled girl supposed to wave the identification chipped card in front of the rapist like the victims in vampire films holding a wooden cross in the face of Dracula? ( Just wondering.)
2)1) Why would a parent put a child in a situation that is soooooo unsafe that they need chips to protect them from rapists, drug dealers, and gang members? Why would the government use police force to threaten children to attend such a place? What unbelievable idiocy! Does this make sense?
In a 3000 student high school 90%(2700)kids are normal. They like school, they do well, they aren’t perfect but they are good citizens. Then there are the 300 who make up the other 10%. They are job security for assistant principals and school cops. In that 10% you’ll find rapists, drug dealers, gangbangers, theifs, hookers and the criminally insane.
I wonder what the typical population number of a state or federal prison is? My guess? ...Hm?....Likely about 3,000. ( Just wondering)
There are posters on Free Republic who see profanity everywhere and will report you to the moderator even when the NON-profane acronym is fully defined for them in a complete and easily understood sentence.
Where was any of what I posted a “strawman”? And for those of you in Rio Linda, it is spelled “cannot”, not “can not”. If this, along with your numerous other misspelling and grammatical errors in your posts is an example of your acumen as a “teacher”, I have some serious doubts as to the quality of the education you are providing to your children. Sorry, just saying…
It is ABUSIVE to place one’s child in a school where she is in danger of being raped.
Where did I mention anything about being raped? I think you are referring to another poster who talked about that and not me. Talk about a “strawman”.
But while you are on the topic of rape or RAPE, answer me this; does homeschooling inoculate your daughter from the possibility of ever being raped? Will she never leave your house, never go out in public, will she never get a job outside your home? Does homeschooling alone forever protect her from such very real vileness in the very real world?
And...There is a big difference between **willingly** seeking work with an employer and being under police threat to attend a prison-like school where one is likely to be RAPED!
If an adult would object to being under police threat to be FORCED into an institution where they are likely to be RAPED, why do we think this would be good for children? Huh?
Finally....There are some government schools in this nation that are, indeed, soooooo horrific that it would be better for the child to **never** attend. Illiteracy and innumeracy can be fixed. Dead and/or raped can't be.
You are completely delusional and paranoid to an extreme if you think that every student in every public school across the entire nation is “likely” to be raped or killed. Does it happen in some schools, mostly inner city schools, yes, and that is completely unacceptable no matter where that happens, yes, but you seem to be against that very technology which would make such less likely to happen.
Big difference!
Yea. Right. Whatever. Again, my post was not a defense of public schools, was not a post claiming that ID cards with or without RFID chips would protect against rape, something you seem to have fixated on for some strange reason, nor was my post in opposition to private or homeschooling, something I said I supported. Go back and re-read my post again and get back to me when you are a little less hysterical and have obtained a better level of reading comprehension. My question BTW, wasn’t about safety or protection from rape per se, but whether the use if ID cards with or without RFID chips in schools or in the work place goes against your religious beliefs, if they all represent the “mark of the beast” in your opinion and your understanding of 1st amendment rights and whether nor not such ID cards have legitimate uses in schools and in the workplace per the examples I provided in my previous post.
The strawman:
My comment was in referrence to rape. It had nothing to do with identification chips.
My comment was in referrence to rape. It had nothing to do with identification chips.
The strawman:
And my comment was in referrence reference to identification chips. It had nothing to do with rape.
So your point about Revelation is....? What? That it is a vestigial book not to be considered as important in the same light that some Christian sects use when they don’t consider the Apocrypha as gospel?
The other view one must consider is that while the ‘committees” argued over Revelation’s “inclusion” into the biblical canon, in the rhetorical heat and in the midst of the sometimes personal invectives hurled at one another...somehow or other Revelation was found to be included in the final Canon...and in a much more firm doctrinal position than the apocryphal books ever were!
The Holy Spirit might have had something to do with that! God is not silent and wants men to find him! Would your dare ask God the question...”Is Revelation a true book of your Gospel?” Don’t insinuate to others that Revelation is not...pray to God and ask him your self!
Then why ping me?
Perhaps you are using me as a means to publish your views?
I used the word **some**. That you are saying, “all”, is a strawman of your creation and I can not defend your strawman.
There are **some** schools in this nation that are soooooooo horrific that it would be better for the child to NEVER attend. Illiteracy and innumeracy would actually better than attending. Illiteracy and innumeracy can be fixed. DEAD and RAPED can't be!
And....Seriously...If a school is sooooo big that the staff don't know who and where the students are, and chips are needed to track them, then maybe ( just maybe) that school is too big to be safe.
I’m so sorry to have offended you. I thought it was considered very bad form and outright rude not to ping the person on whose post I was replying. I was once roundly admonished here when I included a quote by another poster and inadvertently failed to ping them. I guess you play by other rules of your own making.
But I think I get it now. You are allowed to publish your own views and that is perfectly OK, but anyone posting anything in answer to you who is not 100% in lock step with your opinion is just using it as means to publish their own views. If you go back and read my original post BTW, it was not an admonishment of homeschooling, something I did not say I was against nor did it have anything to do with rape in schools. Again, you seem to be confusing me with another poster and have a serious reading comprehension problem and a problem dealing with anyone who disagrees with you, even in the slightest.
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