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Even If Your Child Is Gay...
Townhall.com ^ | March 19, 2013 | Dennis Prager

Posted on 03/19/2013 6:18:04 AM PDT by Kaslin

Last week, Republican Senator Rob Portman of Ohio announced that he had reversed his position on same-sex marriage. The reason was that his son had come out to him and his wife as gay.

This is not the first such instance. Periodically, we hear about Republican politicians whose child announces that he or she is gay, prompting the parent to change his mind about the man-woman definition of marriage.

As a parent, I understand these parents. We love our children, and we want them to love us.

Nevertheless I differ with their decisions to support the redefinition of marriage.

In order to explain why, let's analyze some of Senator Portman's words:

"I'm announcing today a change of heart ... "

These words are well chosen. Senator Portman's position is indeed "a change of heart." That's why he didn't say "change of mind." His change comes from his heart.

In this regard, Portman speaks for virtually every progressive/left/liberal position on virtually every subject. To understand leftism -- not that the senator has become a leftist, but he has taken the left-wing position on redefining marriage -- one must understand that above all else leftism is rooted in emotion, not reason. That is why left-wing social positions always refer to compassion and fairness -- for blacks, for illegal immigrants, for poorer people and, of course, for gays. Whether a progressive position will improve or harm society is not a progressive question. That is a conservative question. What matters to progressives is whether a position emanates from compassion.

Progressives do not seem to recognize that in life there is always tension between standards and compassion. Standards, by definition, cannot allow for compassion for every individual. If society were to show compassion to every individual, it would have no standards. Speeding laws are not waived for the unfortunate soul who has to catch an important flight. Orchestral standards are not waived for the musician who has devoted his or her life to studying an instrument, is a wonderful person and needs the job to support a family.

It is either right to maintain the man-woman definition of our most important social institution, or is it not. We cannot base our decision on compassion for gays, whether the gay is our child, our sibling, our friend or anyone else.

Yes, societies have changed qualifications for marriage regarding age and number, but no society before the 21st century ever considered redefining the fundamental nature of marriage by changing the sexes. That is why it is not honest to argue that same-sex marriage is just another redefinition. It is the most radical change to the definition of marriage in the history of civilization.

How then should people of compassion deal with this, or any other, issue? By asking whether we maintain standards or whether we change them because of compassion. Do we change universities' academic standards out of compassion for blacks and their history of persecution, or do we maintain college admission standards? Do we change military standards in order to enable women to enter fighting units or do we ask only what is the best policy to maintain military excellence?

The only answer that works -- and no answer is perfect in this imperfect world -- is to maintain standards in the macro and show compassion in the micro.

Every parent owes the same love and support to a gay child as to a straight child. In fact, all of us, parents or not, owe the same respect to gays as individuals as to heterosexual individuals. That does not mean, however, that marriage needs to be redefined. It does not mean that, all things being equal, it is not best for a child to have a male and female parent.

Compassion was the reason Senator Portman raised another issue: "My son," he said, "told us he was gay, and that it was not a choice."

This raises an obvious question. Prior to his son telling him that he did not choose to find men sexually attractive, did Senator Portman believe that gay men did choose to find men rather than women sexually attractive? Unlikely.

So why did he raise this? Because the "gays have no choice" issue tugs at people's hearts. Once again, compassion individual is supposed to trump all other considerations.

Finally, the senator also said:

"During my career in the House and the last couple of years in the Senate, I've taken a position against gay marriage rooted in part in my faith and my faith tradition." But he has been "rethinking my position, talking to my pastor and other religious leaders."

It would be interesting to find out what exactly his Christian pastor said to him. Did the pastor tell him that Christianity looks favorably on man-man marriage? Or that God made men and women essentially interchangeable? If so, why didn't this pastor tell this to the senator the whole time the senator opposed same-sex marriage?

A final note to parents of gays: Parents who believe in the man-woman definition of marriage do not owe it to their gay child to support the same-sex redefinition of marriage -- any more than gay children owe it to these parents to oppose same-sex marriage. Parents and children owe each other love and respect, not abandonment of convictions.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: gaymarriage; homosexualagenda; prager; progressives; robportman; samesexmarriage; sin; sodomhusseinobama; troll; zot
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To: Sacajaweau

The entire homosexual “debate” is lynchpinned on the born that way myth.

there is no gay gene.
there is no behavior gene.

behavior is a choice.
homosexuality is a fetish.
a fetish is a choice.

A fetish is not the same as skin color or physical dna gender.


51 posted on 03/19/2013 7:54:11 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: RoadGumby

Congrats, you’re on top of things today! Figuring out what people think is getting to be second nature to you, huh?


52 posted on 03/19/2013 7:54:53 AM PDT by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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To: All

cutting off the adult offspring is the correct answer.


53 posted on 03/19/2013 7:55:12 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: cuban leaf
This comes from her several years of dealing with these people and their personalities and lifestyles

Mrs WBill has a number of gay friends, leftover from college. It's easy for me to sit back and watch all of their trials and tribulations from the bleachers.

A fair number of them are decent guys who just happen to be gay - it's like being right-handed, or red-haired. It's just one facet of their lifestyle. However, I *have* noticed that they're very infantilized - things that you and I wouldn't give a second thought to, like smushing spiders or climbing under the house to fix a water leak, elicit an immediate "BLEAH!!! I could NEVER EVER do something like that!" reaction from them.

Strange, sez me, and undoubtedly a learned behavior.

As to the rest of the group, I've no doubt that homosexuality is a conscious choice. For lack of a better term, they are "Flaming Drama Queens", who engage in all (all!!) of the traditional gay stereotypes. This behavior is just one more attention-getter that satisfies their need, while maintaining their standing, socially. I've no doubt that if they could find something that was MORE attention-getting, while not harming their social status, they'd drop the whole "Flaming Gay Drag Queen" lifestyle like a hot rock.

As an aside, it's also interesting for me to watch the interactions in the group. Mrs WBill has pulled slowly away from all of them as she has gotten more and more conservative with age - marriage, responsibility, family will do that, I suppose. But the rest of the people in the group have shunned responsibility. The (non-gay, I assume) females are all single and employed in non-responsible positions (largely interacting with kids, which is concerning). Ditto that for the gay men.

Like I said, it's interesting to sit and watch the dynamic from afar. Would be a good long-term project for some psyche major, I'd think.

54 posted on 03/19/2013 7:57:00 AM PDT by wbill
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To: stuartcr

Indeed, I hope we are different.


55 posted on 03/19/2013 7:59:39 AM PDT by wbill
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To: goldstategop; Kaslin
"If compassion is the rule that trumps everything else in social policy both morality and the social order will dissolve."

I understand hat you're getting at, Goldstate, but I wouldn't put it quie that way.

I think it's more "If sentimentality is the rule..."

Real compassion meansa really caring for the other person's greatest good, his or her ultimate well-being. It is compassionate to understand that a person is yearning for acceptance and respect; it is not compassionate in the least to support and enable their sexual disorder, as if that were their greatest good. It is not compassionate to deepen another person's disorder.

The same "false compassion" is found in a welfare system which reduces your brother or sister to lifelong degraded dependency.

And toleration for alcohol and drug addition which cripples the addict's life-opportunities.

And misguided compassion for pedophiles which shields them from detection and thus enables them to keep on seeking their prey.

The problem here is not compassion. It's lack of insight into the other person's greatest good.

56 posted on 03/19/2013 7:59:44 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (May the Lord bless you and keep you. May He turn to you His countenance and give you peace.)
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To: stuartcr

I have only your words. Why do they seem to be so easily ‘misunderstood’ as you claim?

It does not matter how the homosexuals see it. The behavior is wrong. The activity is wrong. Homosexuality is not an identity, it is a behavior.

We are given these ‘needs’ you refer to. They are for procreation and couple-bonding, AND these needs are to be fulfilled within the bounds of marriage. And marriage is the institution God created that is the union of a (as in one or a single) man and a (Again, just one) woman.

Other desires, and their activities, are so far beyond wrong they were given a special word to describe them - abomination.

Seems simple and clear cut to me, regardless of how a homosexual or lesbian, or zoophile, or pedophile, or necrophile might perceive it.


57 posted on 03/19/2013 8:03:52 AM PDT by RoadGumby (This is not where I belong, Take this world and give me Jesus.)
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To: Sacajaweau

The correct word is homosexual. Gay is happy, joyful. We need to take the language back, and call the behavior what it is.


58 posted on 03/19/2013 8:06:06 AM PDT by lost in the snow (One PO'ed Scout Master and Proud of the HIGH moral ground)
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To: wbill

Would be a good long-term project for some psyche major, I’d think.


Hmmmm. I smell a federal grant. ;-)


59 posted on 03/19/2013 8:06:44 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: RoadGumby

I’m happy for you to have things appear so simple to you.


60 posted on 03/19/2013 8:08:53 AM PDT by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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To: cuban leaf
Hmmmm. Good idea. I *did* take a couple of Psyche courses in college. And I Feeeeeeeeeeeel like I'd do a good job at analysis.

Suppose that's enough, in the current environment?

61 posted on 03/19/2013 8:09:41 AM PDT by wbill
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To: Kaslin
After the Ball
62 posted on 03/19/2013 8:13:59 AM PDT by polymuser ("We have a right to debate and disagree with any administration!" (HRC))
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To: Kaslin

If your child is gay there is a good chance someone molested him, or her.


63 posted on 03/19/2013 8:14:46 AM PDT by AD from SpringBay (We deserve the government we allow.)
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To: Morpheus2009
they mistook my social awkwardness from trying to deal with Asperger’s Syndrome as something that was homosexual attraction

Bingo. Thanks to Asperger's I was called a "band fag" for years despite not being homosexual and not being in the band (or even able to play an instrument). Many people equate "different" with "gay". If I were in school now I'd be being actively encouraged by my teachers and peers to "come out". I wonder how many vulnerable kids who are merely socially awkward are being railroaded into the homosex lifestyle by the pro-gay environment in public schools?

64 posted on 03/19/2013 8:15:08 AM PDT by jboot (This isn't your father's America. Stay safe and keep your powder dry.)
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To: stuartcr

Feel free to explain all the ‘nuances’ that you understand. Feel free to explain how something that is wrong should be not only tolerated and accepted, but encouraged and expanded upon.


65 posted on 03/19/2013 8:15:16 AM PDT by RoadGumby (This is not where I belong, Take this world and give me Jesus.)
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To: Kaslin

You are not doing your child any good by not recognizing sin and by not guiding him to avoid the sin. You can still love your child without supporting his decision to turn his back on God.


66 posted on 03/19/2013 8:18:01 AM PDT by wolfman23601
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To: RoadGumby

Easy, some people don’t think some things are wrong, while others think those things are.


67 posted on 03/19/2013 8:19:36 AM PDT by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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To: Mercat

“Born that way” was never a good argument, in my view. Most of us, myself especially, were “born” selfish, self-centered and with the desire to benefit ourselves as fully as possible, with no regard for the “rights” of others. That’s why one of the words you hear from toddlers most is “mine.” As we grow older, we find out we are “born” to lie if it serves our immediate purpose, to steal if no one is looking, and to do all manner of things that give us pleasure. Do these tendencies make the behavior acceptable?

Of course not. We are taught not to take things from others, to tell the truth, to have good manners, etc. So some things we are “born” to do must not be done in order to fit into society.

Is being gay one of those things? THAT is a fair question; but to say that being gay is acceptable because one is “born that way” is a terribly weak argument.


68 posted on 03/19/2013 8:20:13 AM PDT by NCLaw441
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To: stuartcr

Most truths are simple.


69 posted on 03/19/2013 8:20:42 AM PDT by polymuser ("We have a right to debate and disagree with any administration!" (HRC))
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To: stuartcr

And your words and postings give away that you may be one that thinks those things are not wrong.


70 posted on 03/19/2013 8:21:48 AM PDT by RoadGumby (This is not where I belong, Take this world and give me Jesus.)
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To: AD from SpringBay

“If your child is gay there is a good chance someone molested him, or her.”

Yes, and notice how many politician kids turn out to be gay. These are kids whose parents have engagements almost every night and that are raised by hired help... and many wind up in bording school where the teachers live on campus. What kind of people do you think a teaching job on a remote bording school campus where you have to reside and give 24/7 access to the kids and pay about $40k per year will draw sometimes?


71 posted on 03/19/2013 8:22:40 AM PDT by wolfman23601
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To: jboot

You know, jboot, that’s the scary thought, how many kids MISTAKENLY come out as gay, when they’re probably just socially awkward or have Asperger’s Syndrome like you or I? It’s a frightening thought, and it sometimes worries me, although it might explain a number of things.


72 posted on 03/19/2013 8:24:52 AM PDT by Morpheus2009
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To: lost in the snow
The correct word is homosexual. Gay is happy, joyful. We need to take the language back, and call the behavior what it is.

Newspeak in action. Renaming it redefines it.

73 posted on 03/19/2013 8:25:10 AM PDT by polymuser ("We have a right to debate and disagree with any administration!" (HRC))
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To: polymuser

Yes, and there are many different truths that people believe in.

It depends on one’s reference.


74 posted on 03/19/2013 8:25:29 AM PDT by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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To: faucetman
Here is my theory and I'm sticking to it.

There are several factors going on when a young man is recruited / molested. First, this is usually a young person. The younger, the more traumatic and confusing. They are not emotionally or mentally or spiritually equipped to process being molested. It is a rape on every level.

Secondly, there are physical mechanics. There is a dense bundle of nerves atop the prostate and behind the water works. During repeated 'stimulation' of this area, many men will get an erection and even experience ejaculation. Strange but true. Don't take my word for it. Do some research on prison rape victims. There's not much they can do about it.

Third, because of said confusion (emotional / spiritual / physical rape) and because of the body's response - the rape victim still has to process what went on. In other words, the rape victim has to cope with answering the question, 'How could I have had an orgasm from that?!' This happens to some women during rape as well. This goes back to 8th grade social studies and the concept of cognitive dissonance (if they still teach that any more) - the individual has to convince himself that his 'decision' (even though it was a purely physical response) was a good one and valid.

Then there is the societal message that it's ok / born that way / alternative lifestyle / blah blah blah. And thus, a new recruit, via chickenhawk, is added to the stables.
75 posted on 03/19/2013 8:28:13 AM PDT by AD from SpringBay (We deserve the government we allow.)
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To: stuartcr

Incorrect. By definition, there can not exist ‘different’ truths.


76 posted on 03/19/2013 8:28:55 AM PDT by polymuser ("We have a right to debate and disagree with any administration!" (HRC))
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To: RoadGumby

While I wouldn’t do either of those things, I don’t think they are right or wrong. It’s just behavior that may or may not be accepted by others or by whatever society they happen to be a part of.

Everyone has things they believe are wrong, and things they believe are right. That’s just how God made us.


77 posted on 03/19/2013 8:31:38 AM PDT by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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To: Little Ray
Fags have us so snowed, it isn’t funny. They make up less than three percent of the population, but they practically own pop culture, and have people, even rational, reasonable people, thinking that they’re 20% of the population.

Remember though that the homosexual lobby includes a large number of garden-variety libturds. It's not just the gays themselves but the people they have snowed that fills their ranks.

78 posted on 03/19/2013 8:33:52 AM PDT by Sans-Culotte ( Pray for Obama- Psalm 109:8)
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To: Sacajaweau; SeekAndFind
Finally, the senator also said: “During my career in the House and also the last few years in the Senate, I’ve taken a position against gay marriage rooted in part in my faith and my faith tradition.” But he has been “rethinking my position, talking to my pastor and other religious leaders.”

Sorry you don’t change your faith or your values because your child takes a wrong path in life.

If your pastor tells you that it is ok to change your faith or your values to keep the love and respect of your child it is time to find a new pastor.

Dennis Prager is the wisest man on radio today.

79 posted on 03/19/2013 8:34:03 AM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: polymuser

I believe there can be...God can do anything, even create us as individuals with our own sense of right and wrong/truth and untruth.

I don’t believe there are any absolute moral truths.


80 posted on 03/19/2013 8:34:16 AM PDT by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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To: TexasFreeper2009
"We are not animals, we are men. We have a CHOICE to act on our impulses or not, we are not slaves to every urge we have.">

"..As Upton explains, "the Sodomite is violent against nature because he denies relatedness to the Other; his erotic energy is turned inward." This is indeed the key point. Man cannot engage in mere animal sexuality without sinking beneath even the animals, who are innocent in their animality. ..."

HERE: Sexual Secrets of the Normal

81 posted on 03/19/2013 8:37:13 AM PDT by Matchett-PI (You know how to stop abortion? Require that each one occur with a gun -Rush Limbaugh)
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To: stuartcr

IF you accept that God made us, then you also are obliged to heed His word.

Everyone does have things they think are right or wrong, THIS INCLUDES GOD, our Creator. He has been very forthcoming with what HE says is RIGHT and what HE says is wrong. Believing His word, makes it all very simple.

While you may not DO either of those things, accepting them as potentially ‘valid’ behaviors puts you in the group of enablers.


82 posted on 03/19/2013 8:38:31 AM PDT by RoadGumby (This is not where I belong, Take this world and give me Jesus.)
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To: Kaslin

Loving a homosexual son or daughter as one should, while simultaneously opposing homosexual “marriage” are not mutually exclusive, despite what the advocates claim. A lot of folks forget to add love to standing for what’s right, but the Christian walk is not easy. The far-reaching consequences of legally re-defining marriage in this sense will have profoundly negative consequences on our society. When Christians stand for truth but lack charity, or sacrifice the truth in the name of “love”, then we lose our position as a legitimate guiding force in society, as we’re seeing today. St. Paul in 1 Corinthians issues a stern warning that without love, the Christian has absolutely nothing. Part of love is standing firmly for the truth, but we can’t stand for the truth without love of God and love of our fellow man as image-bearers of God.


83 posted on 03/19/2013 8:39:12 AM PDT by Free and Armed
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To: RoadGumby

I believe His word differs with each of us.


84 posted on 03/19/2013 9:22:02 AM PDT by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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To: Sacajaweau

I think Portman is a WUSSY father.


85 posted on 03/19/2013 9:25:20 AM PDT by Ann Archy
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To: stuartcr

His word is absolute. God says some things are wrong and bad. He says others things are good and right. These do not change. They are not good for some and bad for others. They are immutable.

It is wrong for me to kill (murder). In fact, Jesus says even anger, that is not righteous, is a sin.

It is wrong for me to steal, even if I take those ‘gains’ and give them to the poor or to the church.

His word is absolute. He speaks plainly through it and it is easily understandable.


86 posted on 03/19/2013 9:26:02 AM PDT by RoadGumby (This is not where I belong, Take this world and give me Jesus.)
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To: circlecity
We are all born sinners.

We are all born "trailing clouds of glory."

Thank you God, and please, somehow, forgive all bigots.

87 posted on 03/19/2013 9:31:16 AM PDT by OldNavyVet
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To: RoadGumby

What do you use to determine the righteousness of anger?


88 posted on 03/19/2013 9:32:39 AM PDT by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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To: OldNavyVet

Bigotry against sin is a virtue.


89 posted on 03/19/2013 9:41:26 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: stuartcr

Woe to those who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter.
Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes
and clever in their own sight.

Isaiah 20-21


90 posted on 03/19/2013 9:41:46 AM PDT by polymuser ("We have a right to debate and disagree with any administration!" (HRC))
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To: Kaslin

Homosexuality serves no useful function in life,it’s a self interest idea.


91 posted on 03/19/2013 9:42:05 AM PDT by Vaduz
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To: stuartcr
Mr. Portman can have a change of heart but that doesn't somehow deem it to be a moral absolute for him or anyone else. From my personal experience, most conservatives who support unnatural relations either have a friend or relative who engages in the deviant behavior and they don't want to appear judgmental. My moral compass is the Word of God and He has plenty to say about their actions, both in the Old and New Testament. We are taught to love the sinner and hate the sin, whether they are an adulterer, liar, bigot, murderer, etc. No sin is any greater or lesser nor unforgivable.
92 posted on 03/19/2013 9:43:45 AM PDT by crusty old prospector
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To: stuartcr

Jesus showed that. It is anger against ‘wrong’, not persons. He showed that flipping tables and even using a batch of cords to drive ‘thieves’ from the Temple was acceptable.

But were I to become angry at you for your views, well, I’d have to probably engage in a little prayerful repentance.

So, when do you view homosexuality to be Ok or acceptable practice for a society, given that God calls it abomination?


93 posted on 03/19/2013 9:43:46 AM PDT by RoadGumby (This is not where I belong, Take this world and give me Jesus.)
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To: Morpheus2009

It scares me, too. During puberty I was confused, ostracized and lonely (and, of course, randy as h*ll). Had I been encouraged by authority figures to identify as homosexual, knowing that doing so would bring me affirmation, protection and sexual contact, well, I can’t say with certainty what I might have done. Thank God in those days no such “choice” existed.


94 posted on 03/19/2013 9:44:51 AM PDT by jboot (This isn't your father's America. Stay safe and keep your powder dry.)
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To: stuartcr
I agree, but I just don’t think a homosexual sees it like a heterosexual does.

I would agree with you -their perception is screwed up. In my opinion -the disorder is like a bad habit -the more one engages in it the more entrenched they become.

One can be attracted to another, enjoy spending time with another, and love another without having sex with them -it happens all the time...

95 posted on 03/19/2013 9:46:03 AM PDT by DBeers (†)
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To: crusty old prospector

My moral compass is the one God gave to me when He created me.


96 posted on 03/19/2013 9:46:17 AM PDT by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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To: Vaduz

Life is absolutely amazing in what it does to propagate itself, the mechanisms involved, the intricacies. How anything that blocks that overwhelming drive can be considered natural, or normal, is beyond reason.

But then, reason has nothing to do with it. It’s all about justification.


97 posted on 03/19/2013 9:48:22 AM PDT by polymuser ("We have a right to debate and disagree with any administration!" (HRC))
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To: RoadGumby

I let society determine that. I don’t view it as acceptable or unacceptable. I really don’t pay much attention to it except here on FR.


98 posted on 03/19/2013 9:51:00 AM PDT by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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To: DBeers

I agree


99 posted on 03/19/2013 9:51:47 AM PDT by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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To: stuartcr
Let me add as an afterthough RE: "One can be attracted to another, enjoy spending time with another, and love another without having sex with them -it happens all the time..."

How can any parent 'know' let alone accept and resign themselves to the 'fact' that their child is a homosexual UNLESS the child has engaged in homosexual sex?

Based upon all the 'news', all the homosexual school clubs, and the popular anti bullying of homosexuals campaigns it seems there are quite a few underage homosexual sex practitioners out there having sex... Either that or there are some confused kids being led astray into believing they are destined to be a homosexual even before they have actually been one by having disordered sex...

100 posted on 03/19/2013 9:55:32 AM PDT by DBeers (†)
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