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The Toomey-Manchin Proposal Will Allow Doctors to Block Your Right to Guns
Red State ^ | 4/10/2013 | Erick Erickson

Posted on 04/10/2013 11:40:05 AM PDT by rmlew

I just talked to someone familiar with the Toomey-Manchin proposal who raises a serious concern based on his understanding of the legislation.

Everyone on all sides agrees that we need better help for those with mental health problems who need treatment.

Unfortunately, the person I talked with is concerned that the Toomey-Manchin proposal could discourage people from getting help.

The proposal will allow a doctor to add a patient to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) without ever telling the patient he or she has been added.

There would be no due process requirement. Not all doctors will be able to do it with the same ease, but many will. Knowing a doctor could add him to a federal database as mentally ill without his knowledge could potentially dissuade a patient from going to the doctor in the first place to get help.

Worse, if the doctor does so and makes a mistake, the patient would have to actively work through the system to get himself removed — guilty before being proven innocent. In some states, should a doctor flag you as having mental illness without your knowledge, you may very well see the state come collect your previously purchased guns.

Activist mental health providers will probably be overly aggressive in adding people to the list. Give it five years in liberal areas and people who believe in the physical resurrection of Christ will probably get automatic entry onto the list.

Mental health is a serious issue and the Toomey-Manchin legislation could have negative consequences. Worse, it would still not stop a Columbine, a Newtown, or the daily massacres in Chicago.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; News/Current Events; US: Pennsylvania; US: West Virginia
KEYWORDS: banglist; guncontrol; gunrights; manchin; secondamendment; toomey
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To: rmlew

And am sure this has nothing to do with the BRAIN Initiative, the 100 million White House brain research program.

Nah course not. Just move along to your nearest insane asylum.


51 posted on 04/10/2013 1:05:17 PM PDT by A'elian' nation
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To: Kanzan

Obviously, we are going to just have to start lying to our doctors. Someone we used to be able to trust, in most cases. And probably another reason we will start losing doctors.


52 posted on 04/10/2013 1:08:34 PM PDT by cld51860 (Oderint dum metuant)
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To: JimSEA
Is there anyone who is fifty or older who hasn’t had trouble sleeping or who hasn’t had a period of anxiety or depression?? Better not say anything about it to your doctor.

Now that I have been off antidepressants for a couple years I make it a point to only go to the doctor when I am cheerful, so the past issues don't come up, or when I'm so sick the mood issues aren't relevant.

53 posted on 04/10/2013 1:12:01 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not NurtureĀ™)
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To: rmlew

Funny they didn’t mention this little item at the presser earlier today nor did they tell you that a private sale at a gunshow would require a background check. In fact Toomey stressed that this would not affect private sales what so ever. Liar liar pants on fire.


54 posted on 04/10/2013 1:15:57 PM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: Timber Rattler

Nobody has the real bill language yet - the link that you posted is NOT - NOT the actual bill language - just a summary statement...

Some PR statements (from link above - “Closes the gun show and other loopholes while exempting temporary transfers and transfers between family members.”) Note - it only says “transfers between family members” will be exempt.

But from Manchin’s website at:

http://www.manchin.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=71c2e977-5a10-412c-ad8b-a3339ae525f9

He claims:

“As under current law, transfers between family, friends, and neighbors do not require background checks. You can give or sell a gun to your brother, your neighbor, your coworker without a background check. You can post a gun for sale on the cork bulletin board at your church or your job without a background check.”

Manchin is claiming, in a vague and informal way, that all private transfers except those transfers made at guns shows will be exempted from the background check - but all of their other statements only exempt family ....

The precise wording will be extremely important. If Schumer is backing this, well then, it must be full of other attacks on our rights. I suspect this “compromise” is very bad indeed.


55 posted on 04/10/2013 1:16:44 PM PDT by florida-guy-001
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To: rmlew

Soooo....I suppose if you have a concealed carry permit, they will go back through your medical records AND if they find that xanax was presribed for you, you will lose that ccp and maybe your guns? I was prescribed xanax twice for flying but they won’t know that. I used one both times. I didn’t think it helped at all so I threw both of the prescriptions out but they won’t know that. WE are SCREWED with this legislation. I just can’t tell you how damn mad I am at Sen Toomey. That Blankety blank. I will do anything I can to help him get defeated in his next primary election. I just hope to God we can find someone decent to take his place!! Then there’s Joe Manchin who has been selling the coal miners in his state out for YEARS BUT they keep voting for the SOB! They might think about that now.


56 posted on 04/10/2013 1:17:05 PM PDT by Cricket24 (Sick of spineless Republicans!)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
The correct answer is, "I don't have a gun. Nobody saw my gun. You can't prove anything."

Don't forget about the unfortunate boating accident you had at the lake. I know Toomey's cousin when I worked at the auto parts store, wish I was still there now, I'd ask, "what's going on and we are not happy about it."
57 posted on 04/10/2013 1:18:03 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (Whitey, I miss you so much. Take care, pretty girl. (4-15-2001 - 10-12-2012))
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To: Cricket24

Even worse. If, in spite of the vaccine that’s only about 60% effective, you contract shingles and take lyrica for the associated pain you’re also SOL.


58 posted on 04/10/2013 1:20:15 PM PDT by Black Agnes
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To: florida-guy-001

Precise wording?

You’ll have to ask your attorney when you are arraigned in court, after we seize your weapons. Oh, too bad about yor dog.


59 posted on 04/10/2013 1:23:36 PM PDT by Covenantor ("Men are ruled...by liars who refuse them news, and by fools who cannot govern." Chesterton)
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To: rmlew
The faux conservatives aren't stupid - they are terrified.

They have their marching orders from the central banking elite to "Get those damn guns out of public hands!" before the implosion begins.

They've staved it off for a long time, but the pressure is getting intense.

They've been warned. They've been threatened.

They have to come up with some way to satisfy the bankers and pacify the folks back home...and they don't know how.

The McCains are willing and eager. The Pauls are not. The Toomeys are agonizing over what they have to lose.

60 posted on 04/10/2013 1:26:43 PM PDT by Mr. Jeeves (CTRL-GALT-DELETE)
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To: Cricket24
Soooo....I suppose if you have a concealed carry permit, they will go back through your medical records AND if they find that xanax was presribed for you, you will lose that ccp and maybe your guns? I was prescribed xanax twice for flying but they won’t know that. I used one both times. I didn’t think it helped at all so I threw both of the prescriptions out but they won’t know that. WE are SCREWED with this legislation. I just can’t tell you how damn mad I am at Sen Toomey. That Blankety blank. I will do anything I can to help him get defeated in his next primary election. I just hope to God we can find someone decent to take his place!! Then there’s Joe Manchin who has been selling the coal miners in his state out for YEARS BUT they keep voting for the SOB! They might think about that now.

West Virginia is like Murtha's district here in PA but on steroids. Murtha, like Manchin, sees his people as below him and useless idiots so he give them goodies with one had and hits them with the others. It is like the Stockholm or "Battered Wife" Syndrome, the people gets screwed but they still vote for the jagoff.

If Toomey does not wise up, we have what I call the "Charlie Brown/Lucy Syndrome" with the football. She says that she will not pull it away and even promises but she still does. When will Toomey and many others learn that? I'm wondering if he is paying Toomey off or he has something on him? I'm going conspiratorial here but other than that, how can I explain it?
61 posted on 04/10/2013 1:27:17 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (Whitey, I miss you so much. Take care, pretty girl. (4-15-2001 - 10-12-2012))
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To: FReepers; Patriots; FRiends





Please Help FR Complete THIS FReepathon THIS Month!

Contribute Today, no matter the amount.

62 posted on 04/10/2013 1:28:08 PM PDT by onyx
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To: dforest
No use voting anymore. People always said this is where they would draw the line. Yeah right. Just kicking the can down the road. The fight is over.

I don't think it is but like you, it seems like voting does not work either. The only other thing I could suggest is if someone is charged with a crime under these new laws, if you are selected for a jury (or try to be selected) when the jury vote comes, vote to acquit. Use jury nullification if you can convince the others to see your way or if not, at least cause a mistrial.

We have four boxes:

Soap Box: well, they got the media for the most part. With the exception of AM talk radio (and some FM) and the internet, sans Facebook, we lost that one.

Ballot Box: Too many low info and welfare sheeple out there along with some fraud. We lost there.

Jury Box: We can't count on the Supremes anymore but jury nullification is all we have left. Our last hope before????

Cartridge Box: God, I hope not, but we are being forced into a corner here. As we all know, if you corner an animal, be it a tiger or even a day old baby chick, well, nothing to lose, everything to gain, they'll come out fighting.
63 posted on 04/10/2013 1:39:30 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (Whitey, I miss you so much. Take care, pretty girl. (4-15-2001 - 10-12-2012))
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To: rmlew
I guess I'll have to let my doctor know
the consequences of being a Quisling.
64 posted on 04/10/2013 2:04:10 PM PDT by TigersEye (The irresponsible should not be leading the responsible.)
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To: TigersEye

To be a loyal opposition to this is to collaborate, for what we face is a non-violent revolution. It must be met with a determined but non-violent counter-revolution. Our battlefields are the hearts and minds of our fellow citizens, the halls of governance, the institutions of education, finance, and industry and the media.

A president elected with a majority of less than 6% has no mandate to shred the Constitution, to enslave and indoctrinate our children under the rubric of mandatory community service, to declare what when and how political opinions may be discussed, to nationalize healthcare or the automobile industry, or to elect a new voting demographic. Our duty is to say no to Vichy Republicans and the collaborationist loyal opposition. Our duty is to the vanguard of a peaceful counterrevolution.
http://nycright.blogspot.com/2008_11_01_archive.html


65 posted on 04/10/2013 3:12:33 PM PDT by rmlew ("Mosques are our barracks, minarets our bayonets, domes our helmets, the believers our soldiers.")
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To: rmlew
...Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, ...

When elected officials and bureaucracies act outside the law they are simply lawbreakers. When the majority of the people vote in favor of total lawlessness in the highest offices they are withdrawing their consent to be governed by a constitutional government. (however slim the majority) By what legitimate basis does the United States of America, as a Constitutional republic, still exist?

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

'The People' no longer support that. They voted in support of lawlessness from the highest office on down. They voted against the rule of law. By referendum we now have a banana republic. The USAINO.

66 posted on 04/10/2013 3:31:27 PM PDT by TigersEye (The irresponsible should not be leading the responsible.)
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To: rmlew

“Our duty is to the vanguard of a peaceful counterrevolution”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

THEY are the counterrevolution, WE are original Revolutionaries of America 1776 !


67 posted on 04/10/2013 3:31:37 PM PDT by AlexisHeavyMetal1981 (x)
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To: rmlew

This way, the politicians can say they are not going to take away gu ns.

They’re going to have your doctor state the claim and law ‘enforce ment’ confiscate.

This is triangulation.

“I’m not gonna ki l l ya. Vinnie, kil l him.”


68 posted on 04/10/2013 3:43:49 PM PDT by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto!)
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To: AlexisHeavyMetal1981

Yes, we ceased to be revolutionaries when the Brits accepted defeat and we formed our own government. Since then we have simply been patriots who support the rule of law of our own system of governance.


69 posted on 04/10/2013 3:52:56 PM PDT by TigersEye (The irresponsible should not be leading the responsible.)
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To: rmlew
Email or call Toomey NOW. I just emailed him.

My gut feeling is he is dead meat in PA. It just proves what happens when you start hanging out with Chuck Schumer. Toomey would be much better off if he didn't talk to anyone and just voted against every bill in the Senate. We don't need any new laws. We don't need any more spending. We don't need any more taxes. We don't need any more regulations.

Maybe I am a simple man, but wouldn't it be great if Republicans just shut up and they only vote for bills that spend, regular and control less?

70 posted on 04/10/2013 5:21:21 PM PDT by ConservativeInPA (Molon Labe - Shall not be questioned)
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To: ConjunctionJunction

Oh yeah! And scary looking as well!


71 posted on 04/10/2013 5:38:17 PM PDT by cyn (Benghazi.)
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To: alstewartfan

That would be scary.

Most Americans haven’t lived under tyranny and don’t appreciate the freedoms that we all take for granted. They eagerly give away our freedoms for false security.


72 posted on 04/10/2013 5:56:54 PM PDT by dhs12345
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To: ConjunctionJunction

Haha, yeah — black, and scary!


73 posted on 04/10/2013 6:04:52 PM PDT by cyn (Benghazi.)
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To: neverdem

I’ve contacted my Senators (Manchin and Rockefeller — ugh!!) to voice my opposition.


74 posted on 04/11/2013 5:18:53 AM PDT by white trash redneck (Just one of B. Hussein Obama's "typical white people")
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To: Black Agnes

Someone needs to ask this asshat Toomey that question.


75 posted on 04/11/2013 6:02:32 AM PDT by paul544
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