Posted on 07/29/2013 7:07:04 AM PDT by IbJensen
Pope Francis on Monday said “who am I to judge?” gay people as he discussed one of the most divisive issues affecting the Catholic Church.
Pope Francis, who gave a press conference on his flight back from Brazil, said he had stayed away from the gay marriage debate on his trip because he wanted to stay positive.
“I have yet to find anyone who has a business card that says he is gay,” the pontiff said at a press conference in which he addressed the reports of a "gay lobby" within the Vatican.
“They say they exist. If someone is gay, who searches for the Lord and has goodwill, who am I to judge?” he added. "The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this very well. It says they should not be marginalized because of this (orientation) but that they must be integrated into society."
Francis added that he thought lobbies of any kind -- including political ones -- were bad.
"The problem is not having this orientation. We must be brothers. The problem is lobbying by this orientation, or lobbies of greedy people, political lobbies, Masonic lobbies, so many lobbies. This is the worse problem," he said.
The press conference, which lasted for an hour and 20 minutes, was held during the flight back from his week-long trip to Brazil.
The official position of the Catholic Church on the issue is that while homosexual desires or attractions are not in themselves sinful, the physical acts are.
All priests take a vow of celibacy when they become members of the clergy.
The pontiff went to Brazil on his first visit overseas since he was elected in March.
The Pope said he had stayed away from the issue of gay marriage and also abortion on his week-long trip to Brazil because he wanted to stay positive.
Francis discussed a range of issues during the press conference, admitting that the church had not done enough to develop “the theology of women in the church.”
He said that the church had spoken on the issue of women priests and expressed itself clearly on the issue of abortion, but he added that important female biblical figures had been overlooked.
"Mary is more important than the apostles," he said. "One must think about women in the church. We have not done enough theology on this."
History's first Latin American pope said he was "pretty tired" but with a happy heart after his first overseas trip.
He said he was amazed at the number of people who turned out to see him in Brazil, especially the three million who jammed Copacabana Beach for Sunday's Mass.
He added that he was unconcerned by the tumultuous start to the trip that included the discovery of a bomb at a shrine he visited and the mob scene that took place when his driver inadvertently made wrong turn.
"There's always the danger of a crazy person, but there is also the Lord," he said. "This being close is good for everyone."
“Worship of God isn’t supposed to enable you to forget about God; it’s supposed to enable you to more nearly and dearly embrace God.”
Exactly! Excellent summation. That is one major purpose of prayer. To draw close to God and fellowship with Him. We pray in Jesus’ name..... Amen:)
which puts a somewhat different complexion on the matter.
I havent got the faintest idea what you are talking about.
And... it also grows one’s “spiritual muscle.” Power-steering prayer, assuming that’s a valid thing to do, doesn’t give either the “road feel” or the “driving skill” that manual prayer does. And is there supposed to be a heaven in which everybody’s hailing Mary for everything? She’s going to be one busy waitress if so. We are in a kind of embryonic stage now, preparing for being in heaven.
I could even see a context within which a “Mary aided” prayer (again assuming that it is valid) could be useful within the context of Christianity; same as we might ask our pastor or our church’s congregation or some well respected prayer warrior to help us pray for some mercy, some provision that will enable someone we love to glorify God more. But we’d be nuts to be calling the prayer people all the time and putting little passion into our own personal beseeching of the Lord. The fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much... said way before there ever was such a thing as saint-prayers.
Actually, you do
Protrestants, and i say that because there is no other religion that makes a deal out of Mary and the way Catholics revere her, interpret the way Catholics do things if you want to say that we worship her just give the evidence. Catholic Church teaching is precise in language, it’s why latin is its language. It canot be changed.
We revere Mary, we ask for her powerful intercession the same way the same as uou ask people to pray for you we have apicture an image the same way you have pictures of loved ones in your home dead or alive
We do not consider her divine she is was human, without sin as God did that for her to bear His perfect Son.
But we do mot worship her. For you to say you dont need the word is just protestant misinterpretation And yes we do need to see evidence in word. It is.no the truth worship is not used for a reason
The Church is truth it does not operate in insunuation. If the Churrch wated us to worship her it would state so. But it does mot. We dont
It’s not MY catechism it’s that of the church.
Anyone who has an argumment with it can take it up with the clergy
I domt argue with people who tink they know more about history and the bible than did the popes their advisors, the docturs of the Church, jesus, tradition, the episcopacy, theologians and divine inspiration
I dont read ramblings. Protestants seem to argue non stop anout minutae stating often non factual things anout the Church on which they are informed by the uninformed
But we are going to gonkn hre for days in the free republic tradition of stating falsehoods about the church with your denial of any any evidence
I predict you’ll all start getting pretty feisty and not so nice. Lots of CAPS but in the end there will never be a stitch of proof for your assertions. Somehow, though, your hatred and lies will be well tolerate
But the Church does not state that one cannot achieve salvation unless someone is catholic
You have captured the deep-seated arrogance of Rome. It seems that Catholicism has sought to enhance the pride of men/women in contradistinction to the Gospel, which condemns it. The result is what we see today...a self-righteous, self-aggrandizing, man-made "religion".
But, I am curious about your follow-up comment. Can you elaborate on the comment about the "application of the pauline epistles as the testament to explain the catholic supersession of the old testament."?
Great point. Seems to be some connection to a Woman John writes about. Throw some details out for us.
No one said they did. I said that the churches stemming from the Reformation pray only to the Trinity, not to Mary or to other saints.
No one said she was. I said that adherents of the Reformed churches do not pray to her or other intercessors, but only to the Trinity.
stanne: loving and respecting Mary but stopping short of venerating her is neither hatred nor demonic. It is self-hatred on the part of Catholics who feel persecuted or outraged by other Christians because we differ on the fine points. That war should have ended centuries ago. Both branches of the church, and also the Orthodox branch, have strong points and weak points; and there are many who earnestly seek Christ outside of any organized church, in view that there is widespread corruption and infiltration by communists, socialists, feminists and homosexualists in all churches at this time in history. How else will God know who keeps faith and runs the race to the end?
All Christians and Jews now have a barbarically violent, worldwide common enemy and need to be charitable towards one another. We should all be pursuing purity, forgiveness, grace and mercy in Christ in our hearts; and they are not easily found.
Lost me in the first nonsensical sentence. And i NEVER listen to theology from non referenced nor non credetialed sources
Not ever
We don’t worship Mary. The source for that is all of catholic teaching that means bible, catechism and tradition
The burden of proof is on the accuser
They can state where in any of these three sources they find it it one single sentence or leave it alone
Period
THEREFORE, He didn't say "who am I to judge?" with regard to homosexual behavior. He avoids, in fact, saying he doesn't judge by answering a question with a question. HOWEVER, he implies that his nonjudgmentalism is to the person with same-sex attraction who is earnestly seeking Christ, NOT to just any gay person regardless of their mindset. Nor is he exempting gay behavior from judgment, which he goes on to say that the Catechism has clearly explained is disordered behavior.
Indeed.
More even than the persons of the Trinity? Think again.
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