Posted on 09/16/2014 10:32:38 AM PDT by MNDude
Oh, believe me... I understand and empathize with what your friend has suffered! I’m pointing out that, despite his fully-understandable motives, he’s made a serious mistake... and he’s abandoning the Shepherd because His servants have dropped the ball (sometimes on your friend).
For myself, I’m as weak and sinful man as any I’ve met... but I have a hunger for the *truth*—not just what makes me feel “good” or “blessed” or even “welcome”... but TRUTH (with a capital “T”). I want to know what (or, rather, Who) true, and to follow it (or, rather, Him). Good fellowship is a very bad substitute for truth and salvation, I’ve found... though *so* very many people seem to abandon the Church because of “fellowship” issues (i.e. people being jerks, mean, unwelcoming, apathetic, and basically every type of sinner since the beginning of man).
I understand (in the sense that I can “trace cause to effect”) how people who suffer at the hands of others can want to abandon ship... and definitely, if a worship community is abusive, find another! But we have an urgent need for teaching others (especially the younger generations) that God and His creatures are two completely different things! God is faithful, even when there is no faithfulness left in our home town.
Sorry... rant out of my system, now! :)
We both know he has made a mistake.
I just ask that you join me in praying for him to see the truth.
Already on it, FRiend! :)
Hm, good point.
Thank you for sharing this; it bears some thinking on, I think.
Good questions, and the reason I think churches here in America would do well to intensively study [and apply] James: it's all about practically living out Christianity.
Oh, I readily admit that I am prone to mistake, and not particularly a great (or even good) communicator.
Being admonished will NOT feel good to these people (or to anyone else); we can’t simply see someone get his nose out of joint (or imagine it) and somehow “induce” that the original commenter was being unkind, uncivil, unloving, in violation of James, etc. That’s why some other FReepers (and I, frankly) were starting to wonder whether you were confusing “love, gentleness, and kindless” (which are Godly and Biblical) with “being nice” (which is not).
Being admonished doesn't feel good; especially if it steps on the ego.
Like I've said upthread: I was not addressing the author's failings/misconceptions/faulty-reasons, but rather what I perceived as wholesale dismissal of ALL the points the author did bring up due to their use of the LGBQ term. (A term I loathe, btw.) I've had a lot of encounters with authoritarians of various sorts and this is one common method to shut someone down: jump on any imperfection [or technicality] and use that to dismiss everything else; probably to the point where I am oversensitive to it. (Another fun technique authoritarians use to shut you down is to dismiss you if you show emotion [because you're not rational], and to dismiss you if you dispassionately/logically make your case [because it's obviously not important enough for you to be emotionally invested].)
No, that’s true: you didn’t explicitly call a retreat, or ask for explicit “Gospel-lite”... but you *did* say that those who called the author out for his “gay-friendly”, selfishness-laden article were running afoul of the Letter of St. James, and you *did* assume that the FReepers who were calling out the obvious selfishness-laden and politically-liberal-laden article had no interest in “calling back these sinners”... and I don’t see how you could assume that reasonably.
You are right, it was more unreasonable than reasonable on my part; for that I do apologize.
I read and re-read their posts, and they said nothing except criticisms of the ARGUMENT and the (rather obvious) ATTITUDE and WORLDVIEW BEHIND the argument. One commenter said that such people were heading for hell, unless they repent (and what reasonable person could argue with that?).
I don't disagree that people are running headlong into hell; but shouldn't this deeply sadden us?
Meant to ping you on #106.
I'll pray for him too.
'faith without works is dead'...
That is a misperception. What I posted is: 'In his [sic] second to last sentence ["groups that Christians have traditionally ostracized – LGBTQ persons, unwed parents"] he tips his hand - we're leaving church because it speaks against sin. [...] His use of the P.C. term "LGBTQ" makes clear to me that by "ostracized" he means "identified their sins as sins."' It was more than the use of a term, and more than that group of sinners, at issue.
I was nodding along with you as I read your post, thinking it was cool that someone else was seeing and saying the same things.
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