Posted on 12/15/2014 3:05:39 PM PST by naturalman1975
THE manager of the Lindt cafe who was fatally shot in the Martin Place siege is being praised as a hero, responsible for allowing others trapped in the cafe to escape.
Tori Johnson, 34, was wrestling a gun from gunman Man Haron Monis when he was killed.
It is understood the cafe manager decided to take action when the hostage-taker begun to doze off after the siege had been ongoing for 17 hours.
He lunged at the gunman’s weapon, enabling others to flee.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.com.au ...
That’s a wonderful system.
I'm not sure what America should do - Australia's honours system evolved out of the fact we are a Monarchy, and for us, it's appropriate. A Republic might make different decisions for perfectly valid reasons. But I do note that you do have some elements of a civil honors system already - the Presidential Medal of Freedom and the Presidential Citizens Medal.
I think our system is appropriate because it provides very clear, very real formal recognition of both heroism and other forms of service by civilians. I think America could probably find such a tradition worth having.
Immigration, domestic or urban violence, you're not going to prevent any of it........
Stop fooling yourself, evil exists; that's just the way it is, has been and always will be.....
Heroic.
One can only wish he’d had a concealed .38.
You may be young and strong now, but you will probably get old. Do you want to be helpless too?
A lone Muslim gunman, in an ordinary cafe in a major city with the cops fully deployed and able to do a take out on him, and instead two killed with at least one other bullet wound, and you think that is a success?
It appears to be disaster.
Recanting their faith wouldn’t matter. They say whatever they have to - taqqiya, or something like that.
As far as I’m concerned, no qurans should be allowed, as it is clearly hateful and instruction to kill. No mosques should be allowed, as they teach the quran.
It’s just best that muslims stay in muslim countries. They hate western values, and hate the Judeo Christian foundation of our nations. The west has nothing to offer islam.
I don’t think the Monday-morning quarterbacking is helpful. This will be fully investigated by police, by the Coroner’s Court, and by others. If mistakes were made, they will be identified. If lessons can be learned. But experts will make their determination after examining all the facts.
Sometimes a perfect outcome is not possible. From what I can see so far reported here, I can’t see any reason to assume that something went wrong, that something was done wrong. But it’s not impossible - and if so, that will come out in time.
instead of being allowed to defend themselves, honest Aussies are being accused of contemplating reprisals against 'peaceful' Muslims. Sad.
Yes,it does exist.But this *particular* evil has its roots in countries about 8,000 miles and 5 time zones from New South Wales.And the banners he was displaying weren't exactly from the Book of Common Prayer either.
No, which is part of the reason, I do own guns, exercising the rights I still do have legally, almost to their limits.
But the right to self defence has never been threatened in Australia, because it has a level of protection under Common Law that the right to bear arms did not. Conflating the two is not helpful because it is just as likely to lead to attacks on the former, as it is to lead to relaxation of the latter. They are separate and should be treated separately in our legal system.
I work to try and fix the second problem - and I’d rather be spending my time and efforts on that, than find myself having to spend time and effort defending the fundamental right of self defence which is not currently under threat, but could be if the far-left decide they should be treated as the same thing.
And the common laws, as related to the UK are the basis for the United States laws. The Ten Commandments were the basis for the UK common laws, and that is why it is so ironic, that now those Commandments in the USA are being banned, yet we kept the laws,some.
The laws of Hammurabi 10,000 BC, where it was ‘an eye for an eye’ preceded the Old Testament....and although included as penalties in some cases in the Bible, they have their foundation in the barbaric societies of earlier tribes. The Sharia that we see operating in the evil Islam societies.
Introduction to Criminal Justice is the study of not only case law in the US, but the history of our foundation of laws. The Constitution including the Bill of Rights....now being destroyed by barbarian Marxists.
THANK YOU for the follow up on Lindt.
Your comments and POSTS have kept us informed, SALUTE!
I’m not Monday morning quarterbacking, I am pointing out that the cops let two hostages get killed and at least a third wounded.
That equals failure.
It isn’t like this was one of those complicated, well manned, well planned terrorist operations inside of a grounded airliner on the runway, or something complicated, a cafe is not difficult at all to do whatever you want to do in regards to surveillance and taking out the gunman, or assaulting or whatever you want to do.
If the SAS was handling this and had found the conditions so overwhelming that they couldn’t save all of the hostages, then we would all be scratching our heads.
That’s an Aussie!!!
Do I need to repeat myself? Evil exists, always has and always will...It don't matter where.
The thing about the United States is that after you achieved independence, some of the great men who lead your nation at that time, decided that they needed to restate some of the principles of Common Law, and incorporated them into the Bill of Rights.
And in restating them, they went further than the Common Law did on a couple of issues, including on the right to bear arms.
The implementation of that law in England, and subsequently in Britain, and then in the Empire, was more limited by the text of the Bill of Rights of 1689:
That the subjects which are Protestants may have arms for their defence suitable to their conditions and as allowed by law;
The religion bit is irrelevant now - but those last five words make a lot of difference. It allows laws to be made that restrict the right to bear arms without violating the Common Law.
That equals failure.
I don't agree with you, and you obviously don't agree with me. It's pretty pointless to continue the discussion.
But I think assuming mistakes were made because somebody died is one of the most problematic things people do when it comes to military or police operations.
Sometimes you can't get the perfect result.
I'm not saying there weren't mistakes made - I am saying I don't think you or I can judge that from the limited information we have available to us. It will be investigated by people who have access to everything.
I answered that in post 53.
This looked like about as simple a hostage situation as it gets, yet it resulted in failure with multiple dead.
"It isn’t like this was one of those complicated, well manned, well planned terrorist operations inside of a grounded airliner on the runway, or something complicated, a cafe is not difficult at all to do whatever you want to do in regards to surveillance and taking out the gunman, or assaulting or whatever you want to do.
If the SAS was handling this and had found the conditions so overwhelming that they couldn’t save all of the hostages, then we would all be scratching our heads."
I've emphasised two very important words there.
Did you see the chemical warfare trucks?
Did you see the two camera feeds that the police asked not to be shown to the public while they allowed the feeds we saw to be public?
We didn't see everything. We didn't come close.
You can't base much at all on what it "looked like" with the limited information that is out there in public.
(Note - I'm not claiming I have access to anything else or anything because at this point I don't - just pointing out that we saw very little of what was going on).
We keep on saying it over, and over, and over again just to remind us of that fact but, unless our critters in congress get involved, nothing will be done to stifle their growth.
Apparently we are satisfied living with evil.
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