There is no geographical cure, there is however procedural reform which gives us some chance. Reform ought to at least be tried before we break up the country.
Give Article Va chance.
Posted on 03/24/2015 3:37:05 AM PDT by Bill Russell
Be careful what’cha ask for. As conservatives seeking to amend the constitution, the too (socialist/communist) can muster enough support to throw in a few surprises as well.
In some ways, an article V convention could end up not being as fruitful as we'd expect or hoped.
There is no geographical cure, there is however procedural reform which gives us some chance. Reform ought to at least be tried before we break up the country.
Give Article Va chance.
Why would socialists leave their paradise? What gives with you Nathan, is your logic circuit failing? The dirty little secret is that the socialists would LOVE for Texas(some other red states too) to leave so they could easily finish their “work”.
There are 99 houses in 50 state legislatures. Any leftist amendment would require only 13 of these legislative bodies from 99 to defeat ratification. In other words, three quarters of the state legislatures must ratify or 38 states. If 13 legislatures fail to ratify, the amendment is defeated. Since ratification by legislatures requires both houses to consent, only 13/99 are required. That is very close to 13%.
After the last election Republicans control 69 houses of the 99 state legislative houses. Republicans control 31 of the 50 state legislatures. To stop any unwise or imprudent amendment would require only 13 of these 69 Statehouse (from different states) or about 19%, fewer than one in five.
The problem will not be to stop left-wing amendments but to pass prudent conservative amendments which restore the Constitution by invoking the Constitution.
If the Congress of the United States elects to have the ratification procedures conducted by conventions rather than legislatures, the method of selecting the delegates to those conventions would be chosen by the legislatures. If only 13 legislative bodies out of 99 object to the method chosen by the other body because it is considered to favor a leftist amendment, there is no ratification forthcoming from that state.
By either procedure the odds of a liberal amendment getting past so many conservative legislative bodies in so many states is both arithmetically and practically remote.
Finally, this is only the last line of defense, there are innumerable steps along the way which make a "runaway convention" virtually impossible and render the need for the states to fail to ratify very likely superfluous.
The history of Loudoun County tells us why. So does the history of New Jersey, so does the history of Miami-Dade and Palm Beach Florida. The left goes to unspoiled places so they can despoil them.
I agree. Cruz is our last chance. If he does not win the primary, I’m in.
You see Nathan what you are not considering is that the seceding state(s) will write a BRAND NEW Constitution that literally outlaws socialism, to do otherwise would be in contradiction of the secession.
If Texas declares independence, I’m moving there
And, Article V seems to be catching the eyes of many right now. I think it should be given a chance.
Seems like half the Freepers would take up arms against Texas and the other half moving there.
If secession comes I don’t see it partitioning the country in two. I think three countries, maybe four, is far more likely. And if secession be our fate then I’d far rather see my state of Missouri join with the rest of the plains and Rocky Mountain states and go our own way. Texas and the South can go their own way. And the rest of the U.S. can do whatever they want.
California's done...so are Vermont and New York.Georgia isn't,nor is Nebraska.
I think the South=MidWest would have a very strong old NATO type relationship.
Which you can more readily obtain at far less cost by reforming through Article V.
Let us assume that you can get voters somewhere to do away with Social Security and the rest of the welfare state thus creating a free-market paradise, presumably this new political entity will be so attractive that everybody will want to go there and when they do they will bring their values with them.
In the 1920s, Miami, Fort Lauderdale and Palm Beach were free-market areas but those who came to exploit the freedom soon turned them into what we have today just as they have done in northern Virginia. They will do the same despite your new Constitution because that is the nature of the eternal YING and Yang of political societies. One group always attempts to use government to enrich themselves at the cost of another. So geographical separation at best can provide only a temporary solution, but I have to concede the same is true of any Article V reform.
We gain freedom for a time and hand the defense of it to the next generation.
Ref “Secession is a futile dream which could become a nightmare......
If succession succeeds it marks the beginning of a host of problems as each remnant is weaker and more vulnerable but if Article V produces real reform it marks the dawn of a better day.”
It is a course fraught with danger. But it appears highly unlikely that continuing down the current path is any safer. Which is why it is imperative for the county civil structures under the protection of the sheriffs and their appointed posses with full respect to the law and order.
Ref: “Article V is less of a long shot is much to be preferred.”
I would argue the opposite as Hamilton did in (in referring to an additional convention to add the protections included in the Bill of Rights to the Constitution before ratification). As I pointed out in the book:
“There is a current movement to produce Amendments to the Constitution through a Constitutional Convention requested by the legislatures of two thirds of the states. However, this process, which has never been successfully used, is subject to many of the same pitfalls, short cuts, lawsuits, and backroom deals which any other legislative move is subjected to. In Federalist Paper No. 85, Alexander Hamilton noted “the utter improbability of assembling a new convention under circumstances in any degree so favorable to a happy issue as those in which the late convention met, deliberated, and concluded.” While Hamilton stated this in discussing the argument of whether states should hold another convention to address changes before the original ratification of the Constitution, his observation continues to ring true with regard to a Convention of States.
One only need to look at the current status of the call. Although 34 state legislatures have standing calls for a convention as of April 2014 , the Speaker of the house has yet to determine if this is sufficient to meet the Constitutional mandate for the Congress to convene a convention. Even if the Speaker calls a convention, there are groups such as Occupy Wall Street’s Wolf Pack which will attempt to high-jack the movements to preserve states’ rights through a balanced budget amendment with riders and amendments to limit the freedom of political speech for corporations.”
For later reading and contemplation....
No Nathan there needs to be a population exchange/redistribution. There are socialists in this country, a lot of them. They need their own country and we need ours. A socialist and free person cannot cohabitate.
Bill, thank you for your service to our country.
Thank you for this treatise.
I did not grow up in a balkanized America, but more and more it seems I am living in one today.
We need to rediscover what made us great—God, family, freedom.
My fear with secession is that the liberal section will be picked off by our enemies, and the good part will then be encircled and possibly eliminated.
You have a done a lot of thinking here, and I don’t dismiss it out of hand.
We are reaching a fracture point in America, and to me, it is absolutely deliberate. The elite who think they will benefit will be the first that are eliminated when the real power appears. But that task of America’s destruction will be already have been done.
I don’t know what the answer is.
I pray we have one more chance to keep the flame of freedom from being extinguished.
If we fail, we may have no choice but to follow what you have described for self preservation, even just for a portion of our country.
Ref: “Let God do it. When He gets ready, all of the guns, military equipment, men and women who would crush your rebellion will themselves be swept away. The hand is now writing on the wall, but they can not see it.”
Roger that! The best laid plans of mice and men....Like Abraham Lincoln said when asked if he thought God was on his side, he replied “I hope that I am on God’s side.”
Im not unwilling to give it try. In fact I encourage the states to do it asap.
not because I think it will work. but because I think that once people see the inevitable and absolute dysfunction of the process because of the socialists and their sympathizers in the GOPe... AND see that absolute disaster it becomes... They will have exhausted their paths of rationalization. Folks will be more open to the idea of divorcing the segment of the population that will NOT be free.
Also, I am unafraid of there being a successful con con as well.. Why would the tyrants who have been ignoring the constitution all these years suddenly NOT ignore it after? Why would the folks that crave slavery to the state soo bad NOT vote for those folks again? Why would the media NOT continue its propaganda efforts for the socialists?
By all means... Lets exhaust every possible route you want to take. But lets do it quickly. I want to live to see the day we are free.
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