Posted on 03/30/2016 5:56:43 AM PDT by rktman
Ah. Look at post #22, I clearly said it was my opinion.
Besides, I do run the Nut-Job Conspiracy Theory ping list! Even I take half of what I say with a grain (or sometimes even a block) of salt.
It wasn't from the FBI's viewpoint wasted effort. They couldn't use the data in court unless they could 'splain where they got it. Without Apple cooperating (or a plausible alternate legal source) the data was utterly useless to them.
Besides, it's not like the money had to come out of their pockets!
I'm just glad you helped me clarify what I meant for other readers.
Have a good evening...
Do you buy that they would take Apple to court publically, and then drop it, because they didn’t realize how much faster someone else could do what they were trying to force Apple to do against its will?
I don’t think I buy that. But I could be wrong.
WHat’s funny is now Apple is “demanding” that the FBI show them how it was done...LOL
Yeah, isn’t that just a hoot!!!
So Apple refused to assist the FBI in a terror investigation, but now that the FBI has apparently unlocked the Apple phone (and may even be able to access other iPhones and possibly other Apple devices), Apple “demands” that the FBI tell them how it was done. F’n HIPOCRITES! FU APPLE!
I don't buy your position that they would need to know any particular timeline. There was no particular hurry to open the iphone at this late date—two and a half months since the attack—and the data retrieved from Verizon showed there was little likelihood there was anything probative on it, anyway. Even FBI Director Comey testified to that probability to Congress. The FBI had to attest to the Court that they had exhausted all reasonable other alternatives before demanding an All Writs Act order. . . which they did. But it's now obvious that they did not. They signed a contract with Cellebrite four days AFTER they seized the iPhone. What's with that? Some reports indicate that the FBI has now signed a long-term contract with Cellebrite totaling $15 million just before unlocking the iPhone.
There is no "miracle" required, just a lot of companies rising to the challenge laid down to unlock an older tech iPhone. And sufficient time.
The Magistrate Judge in New York ruled the FBI, who got a All Writs Act order force Apple to do the same thing for an iPhone there, had no legal grounds for their order, and vacated the order he himself had issued, on both constitutional grounds—the order impermissibly put the Court in the position of legislating law that the Congress had already addressed, something the All Writs Act CANNOT address!—and the fact that it was an illegal order violating the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act of 1994 (CALEA), which specifically prohibited the action the which the FBI and its in-house legal counsel wanted the Court to order Apple to do and had written in their Order! The court cannot order the commission of a crime.
In other words, Synthesist, It is not a legal order. They were NOT legally asking. They were trying to use the court to do something illegal under Federal Law.
“I don’t buy your position that they would need to know any particular timeline.”
Well, it seem like they would have some sort of vague idea of how long it would take to grind Apple down in court, right? Years, months, days, or whatever, right?
Why do it unless you had no idea this other company could actually get it done faster? So you are saying they didn’t realize it was possible to do so fast or what?
Look, I am no expert in this case. I like that Apple fought this. I just think the how it played out in public doesn’t seem to make sense.
Freegards
No, again it is FEDERAL LAW that Apple is demanding be enforced. The law says they are required to turn over any knowledge they have of the vulnerability and exploit to the publisher of the software/hardware so it can be closed. It has even more teeth than CALEA has.
I really find amusing all these so called conservatives who prefer the rule of men over the rule of LAW. If the law means they only apply it when it is convenient for what they want, then they are no better than the Liberals they claim to oppose.
“...Ah. Look at post #22, I clearly said it was my opinion... “
But you never stated that your “opinion” was based on a wild assed “Nut-Job Conspiracy Theory” (without ANY evidence)!!! But honestly, thanks for admitting that you engage in conspiracy theories. As you may have guessed by now, I do not.
The iphone being hacked just talked me out of buying an iPhone. Bad day for apple. Guess I’ll wait for for the Note 6.
No grinding down. According to every legal scholar who looked at it, Apple's legal position was far better than the FBI/DOJ's. The FBI was trying to use the All Writs Act in a novel fashion in a way it had never been used before, against all previous precedents and rulings, was requiring more than an unreasonable burden, and was actually being applied on a subject that Congress had taken action, prohibiting the requesting party from doing what it was seeking to do. Finally, it required the Courts to LEGISLATE a change in an existing law passed by Congress, the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act of 1994 (CALEA), to allow this order to Apple to be applied.
One Federal Court in New York had already vacated just such an order. . . on those legal grounds.
Your comment is now moot. The FBI has withdrawn their request for the court order. Apple has apparently lost the war with their incredibly stupid PR stunt. They could have voluntarily assisted the FBI with this terror investigation and maintained control over access to their devices, but it appears that the FBI no longer needs them...
And you'll buy an Android phone that has no encryption at all? Or a Samsung phone that kept its passcodes in an unencrypted plain text library where anyone could find them? Right.
Your claim that it was "an incredibly stupid PR stunt" has no basis in fact. None what so ever. Apple position has far more support in LAW than does the FBI's. You are grasping at straws in your delusions. Apple's purpose was to protect the privacy and security of over 800 million iOS device users . . . many of whom are corporations who rely on that security and privacy for company secrets and even more are GOVERNMENTS including ours who PRESSURED Apple into increasing its security so that our government agencies could rely on the security and invulnerability of iOS devices in their departments. To make a version of iOS with a back door in it would VIOLATE THOSE CONTRACTS, both literal and implied.
You are an idiot if you think otherwise and think this was just a PR stunt, going up against the foremost law enforcement agency in the world, and the UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, and thumbing their nose at the Federal Courts if Apple did not have a strong LEGAL case and argument. Apple WON in a New York Federal Court, having an exactly similar Federal Court order vacated. This is NOT a PR Stunt. This is about protecting YOUR civil rights.
Swordmaker: “...To make a version of iOS with a back door in it would VIOLATE THOSE CONTRACTS, both literal and implied... “
As far as I know, Apple was NEVER ordered to provide a “back door” into their devices. Do you have proof of your claim?
Swordmaker: “ ...Apple’s purpose was to protect the privacy and security of over 800 million iOS device users . . . many of whom are corporations who rely on that security and privacy for company secrets and even more are GOVERNMENTS including ours who PRESSURED Apple into increasing its security so that our government agencies could rely on the security and invulnerability of iOS devices in their departments... “
I totally agree that Apple SHOULD have protected their devices data security for their clients, which is why I am REALLY POed that they refused to assist the FBI in a terrorist investigation. I think you missed my point that Apple should have voluntarily assisted the FBI, thereby maintaining control of access to their devices. If so, the FBI probably would not have wasted time and effort going to a third party. Now it appears that Apple’s stupid refusal has resulted in a possible total lose of control... The FBI may actually now be able to unlock any iPhone of the model the terrorist used, and maybe even other models and other Apple devices.
Swordmaker: “ ...You are an idiot... “
The TRUE sign of when someone can’t offer a winning argument is to descend into the gutter with personal attacks. Not welcomed and absolutely unnecessary, Swordmaker...
Absolutely. The court order required Apple to write software that provided such a Backdoor. That version of iOS, which was characterized as either "FBiOS" or GovtOS would be, by definition, a version that had a Backdoor around the protections built into the normal iOS. According to the specifics of the court order, once Apple has created this new version, Apple was directed to hand it to the FBI. The language is quite clear. Such a version would be installable on any iOS device. Apple pointed out that it was not possible to limit to just a single device; that it would be simple to modify any limit for other other device by changing the limiter.
You PO at Apple is misapplied. Apple was assisting the FBI within the law from almost the beginning and had been for months. It only stopped when the FBI started illegally demanding a violation of the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA) of 1994, overstepping their authority and power, demanding from Apple something that Apple deemed too dangerous to create: a Backdoor version of iOS to break into the iPhone. Something that Apple deemed to be better to never to create because once it is created, it cannot be kept contained.
Were it to be used to effectuate any arrests, which result in a criminal indictment, then under the law the means of getting into the iPhone must be made completely available to any defense team under discovery for their forensic IT people to tear apart, looking for ways it could have been used to plant evidence. Not once has such a secret means survived as a secret through such a discovery process, even under seal. Too many eyes see it, and too many copies are made.
To even be used in court, it has to be certified by an independent forensic IT lab for such use. More eyes, more copies. No, it could not and would not remain secure and would escape into the wild. The ONLY way to prevent such an eventuality in the encryption field, which is binary, either it is secure or it's not, is to NOT make the back door in the first place!
I accused you of being an idiot for repeating an old, long shot down ridiculous claim that doesn't hold up to even cursory examination even on your own logic, that Apple was "pulling a PR stunt", which is an idiotic idea in its own right. Apple did not instigate this, the FBI did. Apple has won a Federal case in court on this. One does not do that with a "PR stunt" and expend millions of dollars or tweak the nose of organizations that can seize your assets for a "PR Stunt" or haul your officers off to jail for a "PR Stunt!" So use your head, Synthesist for something more than a hat rack and look deeper into the issues, Learn a little more about it than the idiotic opinion you spouted that has no basis in fact or law. Then you might not earn that sobriquet. I did not call you that yet, I said "if" you continue to you are an idiot. . . So, look deeper beyond the idiotic superficial claim you repeated so many times.
” ...Apple’s purpose was to protect the privacy and security of over 800 million iOS device users . . . many of whom are corporations who rely on that security and privacy for company secrets and even more are GOVERNMENTS including ours who PRESSURED Apple into increasing its security so that our government agencies could rely on the security and invulnerability of iOS devices in their departments... “
With regards to US government data communications using the private sector for encryption:
I proudly served my country by voluntarily joining the USAF. My service in military data communications required that I must be qualified for a Top Secret security clearance. I passed muster and was granted that clearance. I can assure you that the USAF, and probably no other military branch, or maybe even any branch of US government at the time relied on the private sector for data encryption... we had our own highly sophisticated crypto devices under total government control...
So, I really doubt that the US government now relies on the likes of Apple Inc. for secure data comms :)
So what evidence was discovered on the phone?
Because degenerate Apple dudes ensconced in that lala land known as Cupertino California know back doors as in back door men and I don't mean with women
Swordmaker, you are sadly trying to continue to fight a little battle along with Apple that has apparently ALREADY been LOST!!! If it is true that the FBI can unlock this terrorist’s phone even without Apple’s help, Apple has LOST their little battle on the little hill that they climbed onto. THE FBI HAS WON THE WAR AGAINST APPLE!!!
If the report is true that the FBI has now unlocked the terrorist iPhone even without Apple’s help, and now has access to the encrypted data, all of Apple’s supposedly noble resistance has totally backfired and blown up in their face.
Just my opinion, It was an incredibly small hill that Apple died on...
You are so missing the point...
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