Posted on 07/20/2016 7:57:38 AM PDT by fishtank
Neandertal-Human Hybrids: Old earth apologetics gone real bad
by Fred Butler
Published: 19 July 2016 (GMT+10)
Recently on Twitter, I had a back and forth with a Reasons to Believe apologist. Our exchange began after I tweeted the following comment in response to another apologetic tweet, “Let’s talk about Hugh Ross & his pre-Adamic man theory. You apologetic folks ignore its problems.”
The next day, the Reasons to Believe apologist tweeted to me the following response, “Brother at RTB we do not believe in PreAdamic humans. Adam was the 1st human & specially created.”
Now in fairness, he is absolutely correct. I had mis-tweeted, as it were. Technically, Ross, and RTB apologists, argue that there were soulless hominids that pre-dated the creation of Adam. Those hominids were a lot like modern man, but they lacked the image of God that Adam and all his descendants have. They were animals, much like a higher functioning version of the great apes.
None the less, I responded by asking him the following question, “Are Neanderthals human beings, then?”
A little bit of background is in order to explain my question.
(Excerpt) Read more at creation.com ...
There are a few alternative modern theological proposals, and mixes could be possible too.
Any human giant that lived after Noah would have to be a physical descendant of Noah. But what else influenced this giant, is something we don’t have enough detail to pin down. More and more I am finding the demonic to be a credible factor in human history. Where that operates, we will find wickedness that seems beyond reason.
Modern scientists assume their models to be accurate accounts of the real world.
I say not so fast.
“We can suppose this for sake of theory, but the “guidance” needed would have had to be excruciatingly particular.”
Why? Either evolution is a viable means to account for the current diversity of life we see on Earth or it isn’t. If it isn’t, then why should we accept it as a viable theory at all? If it is, why would the process need painstaking guidance when it is supposed to be a blind and unthinking process that simply works? It seems to me either the guidance, or the theory of evolution, would have to be superfluous, since they are both claiming to do the same job.
“The bigger the creature, the easier it is for a given genetic move to toss it into the ash heap of history...”
I think that’s a bit simplistic, after all, size has evolutionary advantages as well as disadvantages, and according to natural selection, all advantages/disadvantages are relative to the changing environment. One very big advantage that never seems to change, though, is that the bigger you are, the fewer creatures there are who would even attempt to eat you. I wouldn’t underestimate the magnitude of such an advantage when it comes to the survival of a species.
That quote!—about the missing transitional fossils.
What is the rank-and-file FR evolutionist response to this observation?
“respect the fact that viruses and some bacteria can copy what we call markers too”
That’s true, but I don’t think there’s ever been an example of a virus copying over the amount of genes we’re talking about here. Most studies are reporting for the applicable human populations, they can trace 1-4% of the genome to Neanderthals. There are 20-25,000 coding genes in the human genome, so we are talking between 200 and and 1000 genes. Cases where viruses transfer genes generally involve a single gene or perhaps a handful of genes transferring. One scientist suggested that a mere 100 genes in the human genome were the result of these types of transfers (from all sources, over our entire history), and most scientists rejected that interpretation. So I don’t think we have to speculate very much to imagine what they would think of 200-1000 genes transferring horizontally to us from a single species.
“as well as the thesis that this is simply a riff that the Lord worked into similar species for similar purposes”
That’s more plausible, but it doesn’t account for why the similarities are more prevalent in areas where Neanderthals and humans coexisted. If we apply Occams’ razor, taking into account that key fact, the simplest answer is interbreeding.
The vast majority of people who disagree with, or simply ignore, the idiotic babblings of religious fruitcakes are not atheists. Thet simply prefer to use the language and reasoning that puts them among the sentient functioning humans of the population.
The absence of reasoning and the use of nonsensical babbling to con and manipulate people puts the leftists and the religious fruitcakes precisely in the same corner, away from the reasoning, functioning humans of the population.
God gave us brains to use. Religious fruitcakes deny this fact.
There are many transitional fossils. http://www.transitionalfossils.com/
Well then why do prominent evolutionists admit that they aren't there?
Or is that simply dismissed out-of-hand by fanboys?
So, which narrative were you talking about? First one, second one, or both? Which one indicates “religious fruitcakes” to you? Which part of Genesis is “idiotic babblings”? And are there any other parts of the Bible that you consider “idiotic babblings”?
Seriously ... need to look no further than who my sister dates/marries
I think I am in Love!
While I agree with you that the antediluvian world things naturally grew larger, I have do disagree with the interpretation you have of that text. This argument/debate has been going on for a couple of generations. I am just a layperson and boast no credentials of clergy or pastoral leadership, however, I did a pretty exhaustive study on this subject.
Not to get into a exhaustive scripture slung exchange here but I just want to try to emphasize to you that the b'nai elohim reference (found in Gen 6:1) is also found in Job (the oldest book in the Bible) which also translates to sons of God. Now, these sons of God took human wives (daughters of men) all that they chose and had offspring called "nephilim". My position is why mention that if it wasn't something out of the ordinary? or was the writer trying to explain how these angel/human hybrids got here?
The short of it, is these sons of God (also known as the watchers) transgressed against God by doing this. In the apocryphal book of Enoch, they are actually named. They did this to pollute the blood line of Man and therefore thwart the plan of God to deliver his Son thru seed of Man as God said in Gen 3:15. Now, if you wonder where the Giants came from before that look a Gen 3:15 real close, which seed is the seed of Man and the seed of the serpent?. These particular b'nai Elohim are also called the Fallen Angels, although throughout the Old Testament they are called different names, check the book of Jude and they have been judged and sentenced.
Now Gen 4:1 finds Eve saying with help from the Lord I have brought forth a man. What else might she have expected? She was beguiled by the Serpent (tricked) and somehow childbirth became painful and she would only seek out her husband from there on out? What, she could only eat out of his garden?....I suppose you could stay with your G rated opinion about biting into the fruit (apple) on the tree of knowledge of good and evil. When the bible talks about fruits and seed it usually means offspring and works.
The Nephilim were the offspring of fallen b'nai Elohim. They were Human Hybrids, just like before when Eve was beguiled. They were just part of the plan to thwart God's plan for Man's redemption through Christ Jesus. Look in the beginning Chapter of Matthew, I'll bet you find a genealogy list from Adam to Joseph through the House of David. This is no accident.
Sorry for the long post, this is a very deep type of conversation and one where you need to make sure you are rightly dividing scripture unto truth. This is the short version as I have come to understand it. If you are a brother in Christ please do not let this offend you, let it perhaps challenge you to study for yourself as I have done.
FRegards
I’ve read up on it. I’ve also talked to Jewish Rabbis, as it is a Jewish book that was written for a Jewish reader. One of the big issues in Scripture is the schism between God’s people and the world of men. This schism started with Cain and Abel and would continue to the end. As Christ said that the world would be as though it was in the days of Noah just before the end, what is the one thing that is happening now that hasn’t happened before?
It’s not as though evil is new nor the terrible acts that are new, because it was even more violent back in history. The one thing that is of recent development is the attempt to try and create a system where there is no difference between God’s people and the world of men. Chrislam, as well as recent statements from the Pope stating that Muslims should marry the non -Muslim population are new statements as man’s attempt to bring peace in the world.
That is what is new and probably a sign of the end. That is what I believe, based on my own study and talking with Rabbi’s, as to whom the Nephilim were. They are the result of that joining and blending of God’s people and the world of men.
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