TWA Flight 800 - Witness Fred Meyer reportedly says "I suspect that Bill Donaldson was murdered."

Yahoo TWA 800 Forum ^ | Jun 12, 2002 | Richard Savage

[Asmodeus]

Yahoo TWA 800 forum
Message #8272
From:Richard Savage
Date:  Wed Jun 12, 2002  5:17 am
Subject:  Fritz

Here's something I got from Major Meyer.

 

Rick; I'm not "sick" of this  stuff, but I do have two children to raise alone and don't have the time some folks have. I encourage all to keep the fires burning. The most serious consequence of this tragedy is how effectively our government deceived the people. We must expose them. !) I have not conducted an investigation; I have been privy to others conducting investigations whom I shall not name since I suspect that Bill Donaldson was murdered.  Lisa Perry  is the best witness of all I have interviewed. However , she fears for her safety and is being urged by her husband and family members to " keep a low profile".  She gave us the details of her observations in Oct. '96; long before careful investigation confirmed everything that she said. The time frames must always be discounted because, it seems , adrenalin changes one's internal clock. The three persons in my A/C all concurred 2 days later that we thought the entire sequence took about 10 seconds.  I won't give any info to anyone about her since I don't know you, and believe she is in real danger. At least two persons key to this inquirey have died mysteriously.  Mike Wire has been willing to come forward before. I shall ask him if he wants to communicate with you. However I will explain to him that I do not know your background and cannot vouch for you. .FCM

[Asmodeus]

Donaldson Brothers TWA800 Website
Cmdr. Donaldson Hospitalized
Dear Friends of Bill,

This will be a difficult letter to write, but it must be done.

Some of you may know that Bill was scheduled for back surgery to rectify some lower back problems such as weakness in his legs. More recently he began to experience weakness in his left arm and a couple of weeks ago he began to loose some vision in his left eye.

On Monday, January 22nd, Bill's wife took him to the emergency room at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington where an initial CAT scan showed a brain tumor. Over the next few days many other tests were done and on Thursday he had a detailed MRI which showed that there was not one, but two tumors. The largest of the tumors was located in an area which was accessible, but close to the brain stem. The other, much smaller tumor is in an area of the brain that is not operable. On Friday morning, January 26th, the neuro surgeons at Walter Reed performed a 6 hour operation and removed as much as they could of the larger tumor. The part touching the brain stem could not be removed. Bill spent Saturday and Sunday in the Intensive Care Unit and was transferred on Monday to the general Neurosurgery ward where is recuperating. He is alert and cracking jokes about the permanent part in his thinning hair. His progress over the last two days has been excellent. He has regained some of the use of his left arm and left leg and began walking today. If he continues to improve he may be transferred to a rehabilitation center nearer to his home in Southern Maryland early next week or possibly as early as the end of this week.

His long term prognosis is still uncertain. The doctors will not speculate until they see the results of the biopsy but their initial reaction was not very encouraging. They plan both radiation and chemotherapy, but we don't know when that will start or how effective it will be.

In the meantime, he is surrounded by his family and friends but could use a couple of extra prayers.

Some of you have been asking about his surgery thinking it was the long planned back operation. I was reluctant to say anything until he could advise me how he wanted to handle this. For that I apologize. This morning I asked him what he wanted me to tell people and his reaction was typical: " Just tell them the truth!", "Its a fact, we can't change that.".."Just tell it like it is". It's too bad that our government doesn't have the same faith in people's ability to handle the truth as Bill Donaldson.

Bob Donaldson

Donaldson Brothers TWA800 Website
Updates on Cmdr. Donaldson's Condition

Associated Retired Aviation Professionals
Post Office Box 90, Clements, Maryland 20624 USA

---

Dear Friends of Bill,

Bill passed away yesterday afternoon.
The following obituary will appear in the local papers in St. Mary's County, MD, Virginia Beach, VA and Kingsville, TX.  Thanks for all of your prayers and support.

Bob

CDR William S. Donaldson, III, USN (Ret)
William S. Donaldson, 56, a retired Navy Attack Pilot, a nationally recognized aircraft crash investigator and local member of the Planning and Zoning Commission, died of a brain tumor August 22 at the Charlotte Hall Veterans Home in St. Mary’s County Maryland.

Bill Donaldson was an All-State football player at the Rancocos Valley Regional High School in New Jersey where he won a Football Scholarship to the University of Maryland and has since been inducted into the RVRHS Hall of Fame. He joined the Navy and entered flight school in 1965 and in 1968 he flew more than 70 Strike missions over North Vietnam and Laos in an A-4 Skyhawk off the aircraft carrier Intrepid.  In later years he was the Air Traffic Control Officer on the carrier Forrestal and flew an A-6 Intruder off the carrier Eisenhower.  In the mid 1980’s he was assigned to NATO in Naples Italy as a Nuclear Weapons Targeting Officer.  Over his career he held assignments as Safety Officer and had extensive training in aircraft crash investigation and investigated numerous crashes, including one that was accidentally shot down by a missile.  Bill was awarded the Defense Meritorious Service Medal; the Air Medal, 7th Award; Navy Commendation Medal (with Combat “V”) and numerous other medals and awards.

Bill retired from the Navy in 1991 and moved back to his family home on St. Clements Bay where he took up farming and was appointed to the St. Mary’s County Planning and Zoning Commission.  In 1997, after reading an editorial by the Chairman of the NTSB about the tragic crash of TWA Flight 800, Bill had a letter to the editor published in the Wall Street Journal that began a 4 year effort to bring to light the true cause of the crash.  Over that time he was interviewed on several hundred radio programs and appeared on several national TV broadcasts as an expert aircraft crash investigator and vocal critic of the NTSB and FBI investigation.  He founded the Associated Retired Aviation Professionals (ARAP) and started a website, twa800.com, to document the many discrepancies in the “official” version of the crash and to the end remained committed to proving that the aircraft was shot down.  He was not alone in this crusade as there are hundreds of other aviation professionals who will carry on the fight.

Bill is survived by his wife Joyce, one son, Michael of Houston TX, a daughter, Teresa of Avenue, Maryland, three grandchildren, Christopher, Hailey and Hana, one brother, Robert who lives in Falls Church, Virginia, and two nieces Jennifer & Jessica.

The family will receive friends at Brinsfield Funeral Home Sunday evening from 6-8 pm.  The funeral service will be held at Christ Church, Chaptico Maryland, 10 am, Monday, August 27th.  In lieu of flowers, donations may be made to the 7th District Rescue Squad, Avenue, Maryland, 20609.

Home - Last Updated: 

 © 2000 William S. Donaldson III.  All rights reserved

[Freedom of Speech Wins]

Didn't know him, but sad to hear this hear about Donaldson passing.

What would indicate murder? Obit says he died of a brain tumor.

[VRWC_minion]

Meyer was one of two people in the helicopter just off shore where TWA was hit. He believed he saw a missle strike the plane.

[VRWC_minion]

Are you really Elmer Barr ? I recall reading your stuff on one of the new sites about 4 years ago and my impression is that you were a one trick pony who couldn't see the flaws in your logic about the sequence of events. I recall folks who were far more knowledgeable that the typical FReeper easily pulling apart your calculations. What disturbed me most was the complete lack of acknowledging any weakness on your arguments part but instead a mantra like restatement of your original premise. When confronted by posters like that I assume they have an agenda and become distrustfull of their analysis.

[ThreeYearLurker]

Before this thread gets pulled, let me post this My-T-Fine tidbit...

Fred Meyer

Ralphs

Let us know where you'll be shopping so we may find sales at the Fred Meyer nearest you. Don't know the zip code? Find it with our ZipFinder

All Contents Copyright 2001 The Kroger Co. All Rights Reserved.

|

[eno_]

Yes, he is Elmer Barr. Same style. Was Elmer banned?

[Illbay]

Oh, that proves EVERYTHING, doesn't it.

This guy was "surprised how well the government fooled everyone."

For my part, I'm continually amused at how these conspiracy buffs continue fooling THEMSELVES in the face of incontrovertible evidence that they're full of sh*t.

[Asmodeus]

TWA Flight 800 - Witness Fred Meyer

[Cicero]

I don't know anything about him, but Asmodeus is the guy who keeps jumping on all the TWA 800 threads and saying that there were no missiles and the government was blameless. Presumably the purpose of this posting is to suggest that Richard Savage and Fred Meyer had some theory that Bill Donaldson was murdered, but that he actually died of a brain tumor, so the story was false.

I don't know what that has to do with the price of eggs. In any tragedy like this there will be far-out theories as well as good evidence. Frankly I had never heard of this murder theory before, and if it isn't true it makes no difference to the other overwhelming evidence that TWA800 was shot down by a missile or missiles.

[VRWC_minion]

Frankly I had never heard of this murder theory before, and if it isn't true it makes no difference to the other overwhelming evidence that TWA800 was shot down by a missile or missiles.

I never heard it either but I am not surprised Meyer would be paranoid.

[VRWC_minion]

I'm continually amused at how these conspiracy buffs

I am the furthest thing from a conspiracy buff but I do know that the investigation of TWA800 was not normal and the questions raised that conclusively rule out missles or bombs is not there and further the implied cause is nonsense.

My first interest came about when I was flying a TWA flight and two pilots were seated behind me and they began talking about the disaster among themselves. Both believed it was a missle. That was enough for me to at least keep an open mind and to this day I don't feel we have satisfactory answers.

[VRWC_minion]

Was Elmer banned?

I never followed him on FR but if its the same person he would need to change his name just to get people to read his mantra.

[Tymesup]

Here are some threads with eb44:

FLIGHT 800: COMDR. DONALDSON'S GRAPHICS & COMMENTS ON RADAR REPORTS DRAMATIZE TIMELINE CONFLICTS

TWA 800: COMDR. DONALDSON'S GRAPHICS & COMMENTS ON RADAR REPORTS DRAMATIZE TIMELINE CONFLICTS/PART 2

This one starts with eb44 on 12/10/99 and continues with Asmodeus on 12/15/01
Boeing Lawyers Still Saying Missile May Have Downed TWA Flight 800

[Fish out of Water]

*Index Bump

[Illbay]

At least yours is a "reasonable doubt." What I'm talking about are the folks who have this whole thing woven into a complex network of people, motives, cover-ups, etc.

Personally, I don't believe there's anything there. Personally, I don't believe it is POSSIBLE to cover up something this huge and this "expensive." It just flies in the face of all logic. Insurance payouts, airlines going bankrupt, and not to mention all the congressmen who'd just LOVE to catch the current administration doing something like this.

Nope, sorry, just won't wash. It works in pulp fiction, but not in real life.

[Mustang]

Agree 100% with your above #11 post.

As a fellow retired Naval Officer and Viet Nam Vet, I salute Commander Donaldson and his family for his, and their, service. My prayers for them will remain.

Re: the above mentioned "murdered"...is nonsense.

But, what he and many of us knew, and know,..TWA 800 was stung by Stingers off the southern beaches of Long Island. As to the spin that US Navy ships were conducting a "missle exercise" in that area is total Clintoon CYA and BS. The navy does not have a MisEx op-area anywhere close to NYC flight patterns.

Once again, the truth will come out, maybe, just maybe, our grandchildren will be told what the truth is.

Best FReegards...Mustang sends.

[backhoe]

to this day I don't feel we have satisfactory answers.

Same here.

[Asmodeus]

MEYER: "Lisa Perry is the best witness of all I have interviewed. However , she fears for her safety and is being urged by her husband and family members to "keep a low profile". She gave us the details of her observations in Oct. '96; long before careful investigation confirmed everything that she said."

LSoft Flight 800 Forum
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 From: Bardonia
Subject: Eyewitness Report
New addition to Eyewitness Reports. See "On a Clear Day You Can See Forever" at http://members.aol.com/bardonia.

Lisa Perry - Dan's Papers, Long Island, May 15, 1998
I saw the missile. I was facing eastward, toward the Hamptons, the ocean on my right, the deck of the house on my left. The deck is about 22 feet about the beach. On a clear day, as you look straight down the beach along the line of the shore, you can see the parking lot at Smith's Point Beach, 12 miles away. There was a plane in the sky ... out from the left, from the North, something was moving North to South over the dunes ... from the direction of the Great South Bay. The object came over the dunes of Fire Island. It was shiny, like a new dime; it looked like a plane without wings. It had no windows... It was as if there was a flame at the back of it, like a Bunsen burner .... It was like a silver bullet ... It was moving much faster than the plane. The silver object took a left turn, and went up to the plane. The plane stopped for an instant, as something would when it had suffered an impact, not just an explosion. Then it began to fracture - as if you had slammed a frozen candy bar down onto a table. You could see the spaces in between the parts of the plane. Then a moment later there was another explosion and the plane broke jaggedly in the sky. It was sideways to the way it had been ... there is smoke, fire .. the plane starts to fall apart in the sky ... the nose is continuing to go forward: the left wing is gliding off in its own direction, drifting in an arc gracefully down; the right wing and passenger window are doing the same in their direction out to the right; and the tail with its fireball leaps up and then promptly into the water below. The sounds were hugh BOOM! - then another BOOM! There was a hugh rumbling rolling in the sky... I told the FBI the nose of the plane had come off; and I told them this before the Navy pulled it out of the water. (Mrs Perry was interviewed by the FBI )- The two agents were very supportive; I was very comfortable with them .. I got the impression that they themselves thought a missile had hit the plane. After the (NTSB) hearings I spoke with one of the agents, who told me the FBI had concluded I was too far from the accident to see what I had seen. (Speaking of the CIA video) It wasn't like that at all. They said most people turned to the sound and then saw something. I was already looking at the event, before any explosion.

Having asked for a copy of her testimony to the FBI she was told to file a FOI request.

I knew what I was seeing was a plane breaking apart with people in it. It still haunts me how it continued to be in the air not quite flying but not exploded apart. I'm heartbroken for the families of all those people who were on that plane.

__________

THE "Missile Witnesses" Myth FBI Chief Metallurgist Blows Whistle On Kallstrom's Wild Goose Chase

[Swordmaker]

Do not bother to reply to any of Asmodeus' posts. He puts them up so he can waste FR bandwidth with his pet theory.

Regarless of how carefully you refute his errors, misconceptions, and outright lies, he will ignore you and paste a multi-colored pastiche of obfuscation and dare anyone to prove negatives. NOTHING will get past his preconceived opinion of what happened. In his world ALL of the witnesses did not see what they reported they DID see... irregardless that unrelated accounts trangulate to the same places.

Ignore him.

[Asmodeus]

Witness Fred "Fritz" Meyer reportedly says "I suspect that Bill Donaldson was murdered." SOME COMMENTS FROM ELSEWHERE

Yahoo TWA 800 forum
From: John Fiorentino
Date: June 13, 2002
Well, we've certainly deep ended it now haven't we? Cmdr. Donaldson was murdered? Yes, we have now entered the Twilight Zone of conspiracy. we have our first subject to add to the "mysterious deaths" list. The Kennedy assassination has one, and now so do we. What we really have here is an abomination. A giant mass of absurd speculation and rumor mongering. Add an ounce or two of specious interpretation of evidence, then a dash of intrigue, shake briskly, now turn the whole damn thing 30 degrees counter-clockwise and wallah!

Is it any wonder people avoid this subject like the plague? What a pile of doodoo. My condolences go out to Bob Donaldson who is forced to endure this trash. If you butt cracks want to smoke some dope and BS, that's your business. This garbage has no place in this investigation. The choice is yours, an honest search for the truth or a trip down Alice's rabbit hole.

____________________

Yahoo TWA 800 forum
From: ACE1HIIGH
Date: June 12, 2002
Subject: Re: [twa800] Fritz

In a message dated 6/12/2002 6:31:23 PM Central Daylight Time, rsavage@nycap.rr.com writes:

Can you fill us in on what's happening with the Sanders.

No problem, Rick: Talked to him about three weeks ago, and as I stated, am going down sometime around the last of June.

Liz is currently doing contract corporate flight attendant work, and is quite busy. She's been off probation for about a year, now.

Jim is recuperating from a serious medical problem, working on his latest book, (tentatively to be released in September) and bouncing back and forth between New York and Florida as needed in the ongoing civil case against the feds.

I intend to ask him if Donaldson's death appears to him to possibly be under circumstances other than what has been reported.

In all honesty, Fritz spooked the h*** out of me.

I ran Elmer's current sorry attempt to discredit the eyewitnesses by demeaning his (Meyer's) description of the events of 7/17/96 by him. Elmer is using a snip from the NTSB witness group thusly on Free Republic:

If he's so unflappable and KNOWS that he saw a missile shoot down TWA 800, how do you explain his following statement while being interviewed by an NTSB Witness Group?

I saw a streak of light in the sky. I have no idea what it was. And my reaction when I saw it was, what the hell is that?

Fritz reply, "TYPO, I saw a streak of light in the sky. I HAD no idea what it was. Hell"

Yeah, Fritz. Me too.

____________________

The Donaldson brothers' TWA 800 forum

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On Missileconspiracywackos June 13 2002 at 12:57 PM		stan"); // -->   (Login thatstan) from IP address 216.128.134.128
From: "stan clark" <stan@could.com> [Save Address] [Block Sender] To: twa800@yahoogroups.com Cc: Subject: [twa800] On Missileconspiracywackos and X>2 Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 11:23:19 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Fiorentino" Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 06:31:35 -0400 j: Well, we've certainly deep ended it now haven't we? s: No. That was my initial reaction too, BTW, John. j: Cmdr. Donaldson was murdered?..............Yes, we have now entered the Twilight Zone of conspiracy.........we have our first subject to add to the "mysterious deaths" list. The Kennedy assassination has one, and now so do we. s: Worse than that, John. Meyer said the number of mysterious deaths, X, was not one but two. You forgot Jeremy Crocker. I am convinced the feds bumped him off. The feds were in a frenzy during that time period. I think it was triggered by the ATC tape. The election. And Meyer's defection as their TV 'spokesman.' Damn you, Dick Russell! <g> That's when I instantly decided to 'retire' from Dahlgren Division of NAVSEA, BTW. What luck! What relief. I'm still afraid to go on any military base. s: X>2, Fred. I need a good lawyer. j: What we really have here is an abomination. A giant mass of absurd speculation and rumor mongering. Add an ounce or two of specious interpretation of evidence, then a dash of intrigue..........shake briskly...........now turn the whole damn thing 30 degrees counter-clockwise...........and wallah! s: The above paragraph is the abomination, IMO. I think Bill Donaldson was my favorite, next to Gary, on this exercise. Meyer and Nibert are probably tied for third. Bill Donaldson was convinced it was terrorist. I thought that silly but, like Sanders, felt I understood why Bill thought the way he did. The medical answer is the navy was a father figure to him and therefore could do no wrong. And Bill was a pure soul. The two conflicted and 'the ship hit the sand.' I suffered the same problem to a lesser extent once. I think Gary believes it's an engine cowling, along with Jim Knowles. We have had a 747 cowling fall off in LA since '96. I'm pretty sure I'm on the same wavelength with Meyer and Nibert on the cause of this tragedy. And we have many victims on the navy side of the house besides Donaldson as well. s: My initial thought on Bill's death is his life was shortened by the navy's brutal and blatant coverup. My shrink, as fine a man as I've ever met, died of 'cancer' like Bill, but all of his professional associates (large firm in Ft. Walton) claimed Eglin AFB killed him. He was treating about 50 dissenters (whistleblowers) at any one time from Eglin. My belief on his death is his life was shortened also because of Eglin, but 'cancer' killed both Commander Bill and Dr. Gill. It's a complex medical problem beyond our scope, but the problem is it is the policy of the US government to kill dissenters who interfere on ultra high cost matters - pure and simple. It's simply considered good business. And they have a point - to everyone who does not hold human life sacred. TWA800 is an ideal example. That's from medical doctors who have to treat these noble dissenters made 'vegetables' by their own government.&nb! sp; Perhaps we shouldn't drill into our kids, "DO THE RIGHT THING." It could be hazardous to their health later. Trying to differentiate between suicide and murder is a matter for professional criminologists. I was getting help from these types until they got scared off - like the medical types. An interesting example is the top exec at ENRON who 'mysteriously' committed suicide right before he was going to blow the whistle. Remember that one (not publicized much)? He blew his brains out in the turn lane driving home. After my criminologist stopped laughing, he told me you don't commit suicide in the turn lane in rush hour traffic going home. It could disrupt traffic. <g> You are most vulnerable, however, for 'assistance.' Where were the conspiracy mongers on this one, John? I think it's healthy to question all deaths of people in the heat of battle with the feds. Had we done so on ENRON, we coulda nailed some fat cats who wiped out so many working people's retirement. s: It reminds me of the civil rights worker's body found in Mississippi in the sixties with 37 bullet holes in him. The High Sheriff said it was the worst case of suicide they'd ever had. <g> J: Is it any wonder people avoid this subject like the plague? s: The reason knowledgeable people on twa800 avoid this subject like the plague is fear of their own government and people. Dissent is the plague. I haven't decided yet whether I should put you in the 'knowledgeable people category' or not, John. <g> j: What a pile of doodoo. j: My condolences go out to Bob Donaldson who is forced to endure this trash. s: Mine too, and to his son. As a minimum, I feel both realize how it changed Bill by driving his blood pressure up. They don't call that the 'silent killer' for nothing. j: If you butt cracks want to smoke some dope and BS......that's your business. This garbage has no place in this investigation. j: The choice is yours...........an honest search for the truth......or a trip down Alice's rabbit hole. s: I admit there's only four honest lawyers in the country, but Meyer is one of the four. That's his damn problem! <g> Like Bill. I'll learn you yet on twa800, John. Even if I have to write your book for you. <g> That book-to-be is as important to me and the rest of us as it is to you. Stan "It is better to be rich and happy than to be poor and sick." David Wolpert --

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____________________

Yahoo TWA 800 forum
From: amartsmart
Date: June 13, 2002
Subject: "COMMANDER DONALDSON'S VIEW (on Navy ships in the area on July 17, 1996...")
Dear Friends:

If one goes to the "www.TWA800.com" web-site, AND SCROLLS DOWN TO "WARNING AREAS" and then if one reads what Commander Donaldson, himself, the FORMER COMMANDER OF THE ENTIRE U.S. NAVY, (I think!; somebody correct me please, if I am not correct about this...); HAD TO SAY ABOUT THIS QUESTION; one will read that the former U.S. Navy Commander himself had to say:

which was (paraphrased); go to all web-sites included in this paragraph and pay particular attention to the last line...perhaps one of the last statements that the Commander uttered: (concerning the radar layout of any SHIPS in the vicinity that night)....."(COMMANDER DONALDSON BELIEVES THE RADAR COULD JUST HAVE EASILY BEEN SPORTS FISHERMEN AND NOTHING MORE...YOU DECIDE!!!".

CONCLUSION

ALL NAVY WARNING AREAS FOR THAT NIGHT DO NOT RELATE ANY TYPE OF NAVY EXERCISES IN THE AREA...."

THEORY ONLY/ANNE.