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FAA says it had 11 other suspect planes on Sept. 11
wcbs880.com ^

Posted on 08/12/2002 12:50:43 PM PDT by Sub-Driver

FAA says it had 11 other suspect planes on Sept. 11

Monday August 12, 2002

By RICHARD PYLE Associated Press Writer

WESTBURY, N.Y. (AP) In the tense minutes after two hijacked jetliners smashed into New York's World Trade Center and another hit the Pentagon, air traffic controllers had as many as 11 other suspect aircraft on their screens, federal aviation officials said Monday.

The concern over possible additional hijackings did not end until 12:15 p.m. on Sept. 11 3{ hours after the first attack on the twin towers when the last of 4,546 commercial aircraft were safely on the ground nationwide.

``Somewhere in the first hour after the first plane hit, we were receiving reports of additional confirmed hijackings. The list at that point in time started to grow,'' said Frank Hatfield, Eastern Region division manager for FAA air traffic control operations.

``All reports were treated as unconfirmed hijackings until we eliminated that as a possibility. We were not satisfied that the last number was four until 12:15 p.m., and every airplane in the country was on the ground,'' he said.

``No one had ever envisioned a scenario where the United States would land every plane in the sky.''

Airports became jammed with the unexpected aircraft, yet there were no mishaps, he said.

Hatfield and other FAA officials briefed news media on Monday at the New York Terminal Approach Control Center, known as TRACON, on Long Island.

Mike McCormick, air traffic control manager at New York Center the main traffic control center for New York area airports made the unprecedented decision at 9:04 a.m. to declare ``ATC Zero,'' meaning that normal services were suspended and no aircraft could fly into, out of or through the region's airspace.

At that time there were still hundreds of aircraft in the skies around New York and the western Atlantic, for which the Long Island-based center had responsibility.

The decision came just after the second plane, United Airlines Flight 175, struck the south tower of the World Trade Center, confirming that the country was under terrorist attack.

Unlike the first hijacked plane, American Airlines Flight 11, the second Boeing 767's transponder was working and he knew where it was headed, McCormick said, even before the Newark Airport control tower picked it up visually as it flew south along the Hudson River, turned and headed back toward the twin towers.

``I wanted to make sure everyone understood that this (attack) was not a single aircraft, that this was not a single event. There was at least one other aircraft involved and there could be many more, and we needed to prepare for all eventualities,'' McCormick said.

The officials said many changes have been effected in emergency procedures since Sept. 11 but declined to go into detail for security reasons.

Hatfield said, however, that the time frame for the FAA to make contact with the military in an emergency ``has been shaved from minutes to seconds.''

On that day, the first two military interceptors, Air Force F-15 Eagles from Otis Air Force Base in Massachusetts, scrambled airborne at 8:52 a.m., six minutes after the first attack, but too late to do anything about the other jets heading for the Trade Center or Pentagon.

Those struck at 9:02 and 9:40 a.m., respectively. The fourth hijacked plane, United Airlines Flight 93, crashed near Somerset, Pa., at 10:07 a.m.

McCormick said that under the new procedures, ``We are in direct instantaneous communication with our military and those people responsible for defending our country.''

Hatfield said security now has a much higher priority than it did before Sept. 11.

``We have searched our souls and tried to figure out what we could have done differently on that day,'' he said. ``Probably the best thing we could have done was to improve our communications, and over the last year we have aggressively addressed that issue.''


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 911; aaflight11; airlinesecurity; airportsecurity; americanairlines; pervez
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1 posted on 08/12/2002 12:50:43 PM PDT by Sub-Driver
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To: Sub-Driver
And how many terrorists lost their nerve? Were any plans aborted due to take-off delays?
2 posted on 08/12/2002 12:53:51 PM PDT by Shermy
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To: Sub-Driver
Airports became jammed with the unexpected aircraft, yet there were no mishaps, he said.

This actually says alot about the efficency and skill of the air traffic controllers in this country.

3 posted on 08/12/2002 12:53:51 PM PDT by jae471
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To: Shermy
We will never know. {:-{
4 posted on 08/12/2002 12:56:27 PM PDT by Terriergal
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To: Shermy
There was an article on FR a few weeks ago about a plane that was scheduled to take off from Dallas/Fort-Worth that had four Arabs on board. The take-off was delayed for a few minutes for normal delay reasons, but it was enough to keep it grounded (It was scheduled for a 9ish EST take-off.) The article said that the Arabs quickly left the plane and were never found.
5 posted on 08/12/2002 12:57:10 PM PDT by jae471
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To: Sub-Driver
I've often wondered about this, and if any of those grounded planes "might have been". I recall a news story from that week, of a west-bound plane that I think landed in St. Louis and five guys disembarked, never to be seen again.

Does anyone else know what happened with any of these stories?

6 posted on 08/12/2002 1:00:28 PM PDT by ElkGroveDan
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To: ElkGroveDan
I've been waiting and waiting for news about other planes. I also remember talk on that day about other planes and middle eastern passengers disembarking. But I don't know any more than the little bit I remember. I'd bet money that there were a handful more, and being called back to land is what stopped them.

Remember the two guys on the train in Texas that day? There WAS a little hinting around that THEY might have been in another hijacked plane that was recalled. And of course, the feds just let them go.
7 posted on 08/12/2002 1:09:25 PM PDT by EggsAckley
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To: ElkGroveDan
Does anyone else know what happened with any of these stories?

I've always believed that we got off lucky on Sept. 11.

The terrorists signed their own death warrants as well as those of Saddam Hussein and militant Islam.

Ask any arab or muslim "if good defeats evil" and then tell them to wait a few years. They might want to reconsider their religious affiliations!!

8 posted on 08/12/2002 1:10:59 PM PDT by CROSSHIGHWAYMAN
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To: ElkGroveDan
I've often wondered about this, and if any of those grounded planes "might have been". I recall a news story from that week, of a west-bound plane that I think landed in St. Louis and five guys disembarked, never to be seen again.

I suspect you are thinking of a real episode, but your conclusion is wrong. There was a plane from Boston, I think, that was grounded in St Louis. There were arabs on board but they didn't disappear. They got off the plane and took a train to their destination which I believe was San Antonio, Texas. They were met by police and FBI at their destination (I don't recall how the FBI was alerted to them) and were arrested when a search of their luggage revealed cash and box cutters and hair dye. There were even rumors that they had shaved their body hair.

They were held without charge for many months and eventualy the FBI cleared them of suspicion. They might have been deported afterward, but I don't think there was any link established to any of the hijackers or any terrorists, despite extensive FBI probes of their finances and phone calls, etc.

See Sources: Texas train suspects not tied to attacks for details.

9 posted on 08/12/2002 1:11:22 PM PDT by clamboat
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To: clamboat
Looks like I got some of the details wrong. They weren't Arabs, they were Indian. And they were on a flight out of Newark, NJ, not Boston, MA. And they were never released and are still be helpd on immigration and credit card fraud charges. So the feds didn't "just let them go" at all. They did clear them of involvement with the hijackings or terrorism though.
10 posted on 08/12/2002 1:15:49 PM PDT by clamboat
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To: ElkGroveDan
I remember. They had thousands in cash, fake credit cards, box cutters and hair die. They entered a guilty plea to credit card fraud and will walk shortly.

Same story with Moussaoui's OKC roommate that the FBI and Secret Service connected to the OKC bombing and WTC 1993, Menepta will walk in about 5 months after pleading guilty to a weapons charge.

Same with the Muslim terrorists connected to the murder of Katherine Smith(she was burned alive with gasoline in one of the Muslim's car) in the Memphis drivers license scam, they all plead and were released with time served, except the unlicensed plumber Hammad who had a work pass for the WTC days before 9-11.Hammad said he was there working on the sprinkler system for a non existent company called Denko Mechanical. Interestingly, the FEMA report explaining why the towers collapsed concluded a major factor was that the sprinkler systems were disabled. Go figure.
Hammad's sentencing hearing is this month in Memphis, he has been out on bail, I am sure he will show up so he can be released for time served on bail. He never did explain why he needed a TN license since he already had a drivers license.

Meanwhile I hear Martha Stewart maybe looking at some hard time.

11 posted on 08/12/2002 1:22:45 PM PDT by honway
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To: CROSSHIGHWAYMAN
I've always believed that we got off lucky on Sept. 11.

You're not the only one. If I recall correctly, wasn't there (for lack of a better word) "intelligence" which had heard about terrorists planning to hi-jack commercial jets to be used as suicide bombs, but instead of 4 planes the original plan was for about a dozen planes to be the number that the terrorists were shooting for? It would be almost poetic if the one thing that saved the Sears Tower and TransAmerica building was the typical flight delays that everyone who flies frequently often complains about.

I do have to give the air traffic controllers their due for how they were able to get all of those thousands of planes out of the sky and onto the ground as fast as they did, and without any accidents in the process. I wonder how different things might have been if Reagan had not fired all of those air traffic controllers when they went on strike in the 80's.

12 posted on 08/12/2002 1:27:57 PM PDT by Orangedog
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To: Shermy
"FBI Asks if Hijacking Plot Included Plane at Kennedy" (Air Canada- Toronto to LaGuardia and also an AA flight142 Kennedy to London delayed due to a mechanical problem and also a United flight 23 Kennedy to San Francisco )

*Expired MSNBC Link but may still be on the web somewhere* "Knives Hint at Thwarted Hijacking" (Atlanta to Brussels and also a flight out of Boston)

FBI Probes 5th Flight for Hijackers, Plane Grounded on Day of Attack

Arrested Men's Shaved Bodies Drew Suspicion of the FBI (Plane which landed prematurely in St. Louis & men who were captured on an Amtrak train to Texas)

13 posted on 08/12/2002 1:31:01 PM PDT by piasa
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To: Orangedog
The original 911 plan seems to have its roots in a foiled plot in the Philippines in which Mohammed Yousef had been involved. Some on FR call it Project Bojinka, named after a company which the terrorists had used for financing, I believe. The Philippines plot called for 12 passenger planes. The terrorists did a test run using an aircraft in the Pacific and ended up killing a Japanese passenger. They didn't carry oput their actual multiplane plot because their plot was discovered by Philippine police while they were searching one of the plotter's apartments during the investigation of another crime.

Singapore Bomb-Plot Suspect Helped Run Terror Firm

14 posted on 08/12/2002 1:40:55 PM PDT by piasa
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To: Sub-Driver
And our pilots are still unarmed. Wonder when the next group of planes will rain down on us? I guess we'll be the International Darwin Arward all time winners!
15 posted on 08/12/2002 1:48:47 PM PDT by Musket
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To: Sub-Driver
FYI:

12 more planes were ready to be hijacked !
U.S. Officials Probing Whether More Planes Hijacked
S an Antonio To San Diego Flight Targeted By Hijackers? (mine)
Hastert Reveals Three Other Planes Hit Distress
Al-Qaeda planned more hijacks

16 posted on 08/12/2002 1:49:20 PM PDT by jae471
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To: honway
I had never heard about the sprinkler system being disabled. Is there any theory about how that happened?
17 posted on 08/12/2002 1:58:38 PM PDT by Aria
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To: Aria
I had never heard about the sprinkler system being disabled. Is there any theory about how that happened?

An airplane smashed into each tower.

18 posted on 08/12/2002 1:59:42 PM PDT by Poohbah
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To: Musket
And our pilots are still unarmed. Yep, and our Airports still don't profile arab men, and our Borders are still wide open! Go figure...Blackbird.
19 posted on 08/12/2002 2:05:08 PM PDT by BlackbirdSST
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To: Orangedog
I do have to give the air traffic controllers their due for how they were able to get all of those thousands of planes out of the sky and onto the ground as fast as they did, and without any accidents in the process. I wonder how different things might have been if Reagan had not fired all of those air traffic controllers when they went on strike in the 80's.

Reagan was right in canning them. Some government jobs just shouldn't be strike-sensitive. Imagine if PATCO has triumphed and Sept. 11th was in the middle of an ATC system strike, with management personnel operating the ATC system. Disaster would have been an understatement.

20 posted on 08/12/2002 2:08:34 PM PDT by Thumper1960
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To: Sub-Driver
Not one person could have done more because we don't think like these ANIMALS!
21 posted on 08/12/2002 2:34:40 PM PDT by cubreporter
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To: Sub-Driver; Shermy; jae471
For info and discussion purposes only ---

FBI probes 5th flight for hijackers, Chicago Tribune, September 18, 2001,by Stephen J. Hedges and Naftali Bendavid (posted by newzjunkey).

WASHINGTON -- The FBI is investigating the possibility that suicide hijackers were on board a fifth transcontinental airline flight last Tuesday, one that was cancelled just minutes before its scheduled 8:10 a.m. departure from Boston due to a mechanical problem, according to sources familiar with the investigation.

Federal agents are searching for an undetermined number of passengers who were on board American Airlines Flight 43, according to one source familiar with the passenger manifest. The flight was to have departed Boston 25 minutes after American Flight 11, which struck New York's World Trade Center, this source said.

In addition, one of the sources said that the FBI was "very interested" in passengers whose names appeared on the manifests of "several" other American flights that were in the air when the first attacks occurred. Those planes landed prematurely when air traffic controllers, responding to the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, ordered all flights in the U.S. to touch down as soon as possible.

None of the passengers in whom the FBI has expressed interest reappeared to continue their journeys after commercial flights resumed late last week, one of the sources said.

On Thursday, the FBI sent a list of several dozen Arabic-sounding names to state and local police with the request that those on the list be located for questioning. At least some of the passengers being sought are believed to be among those listed, according to one of the sources. An American Airlines spokesman said he was not immediately able to confirm the sources' accounts.

About 35 minutes after Flight 43 was due to depart, American Flight 11, which was bound for Los Angeles, struck the Trade Center's north tower. A hijacked United flight from Boston hit the center's south tower about 20 minutes later. A third American flight that left Washington's Dulles International Airport struck the Pentagon at 9:39 a.m. A fourth plane, United Flight 93, crashed in a field southeast of Pittsburgh at 10:10 a.m.

Urgent request for help

Federal authorities were holding 49 individuals in connection with last week's terrorist attacks, nearly twice as many as two days ago, and the FBI sent out an urgent request Monday for Arabic and Farsi speakers to help with its investigation of the hijackings.

French government officials confirmed Monday that one of the people being held by the FBI for questioning in connection with last week's attack is considered a dangerous, well-known militant associate of Osama bin Laden.

Habib Zacarias Moussaoui, a dual French-Algerian national, was detained last month after instructors at a flight school he attended in Minnesota grew suspicious that Moussaoui, an inexperienced pilot, wanted to learn only how to steer and turn passenger jets, not take off or land.

... FBI officials acknowledged that the bureau is being hampered by a severe shortage of investigators fluent in Arabic or Farsi, which is spoken in Iran. "This has been a perpetual problem for everybody," said FBI spokesman John Collingwood.

... "There has been credible evidence gathered since Tuesday that Tuesday's attacks were not designed to be a one-day event," [Sen. Bob] Graham [(D-Fla.)] told the Orlando Sentinel. "There were other acts of terrorism in the United States and elsewhere that were part of this plan."


22 posted on 08/12/2002 2:38:42 PM PDT by First_Salute
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To: ElkGroveDan
Well sure. As soon as the planes landed and the passengers deplaned...these individuals walked off just like everyone else into the sunset until next time. We said that from the very beginning that they probably walk off natural and calm or panicky like everyone else asking questions and all that. They are out there and will strike again. We need to get them first. Take Iraq out..Saddam funds these groups while keeping his hands clean.
23 posted on 08/12/2002 2:39:43 PM PDT by cubreporter
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To: jae471; Sub-Driver
'Airports became jammed with the unexpected aircraft, yet there were no mishaps, he said.'

This actually says alot about the efficency and skill of the air traffic controllers in this country.

Using an obsolete system with some components using 1950s vintage computers with vacuum tubes. If we had a state of the art system, the computers would have notified controllers that the aircraft had deviated from their flight plans as soon as hijackers took control and maneuvered them.

24 posted on 08/12/2002 2:40:59 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: Aria; snopercod
There was a story posted to Free Republic, about a middle-Eastener who had gotten past the security of the World Trade Center, in the weeks prior to the attacks.

He used an ID which somehow is related to another story that was posted here, about some middle-Easteners who had success in obtaining ID's from the State of Tennessee's Dept. of Motor Vehicles.

This was some months ago ... maybe in February or March, those stories ran here.

It was theorized that the middle-Eastener who had gotten the pass(es) which affected his way around the World Trade Center, had managed to shut down some of the emergency water supply, either manually or had planted a bomb.

25 posted on 08/12/2002 2:44:20 PM PDT by First_Salute
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To: Aria
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/655625/posts?q=1&&page=75#75

Link

The FEMA Report does not explain how the sprinkler system was disabled, based on their investigation they concluded it was disabled. Many simply conclude that the crash itself disabled the sprinkler systems. However, I have too much confidence in the design engineers to readily assume there was no redundancy in the sprinkler system so that the system could still function in the event of a localized catastrophic event such as an explosion or plane crash.

You combine that with the story of the criminal Muslim unlicensed plumber admitting to working on the sprinkler system days prior with no record at the Port Authority and you get my attention. Additionally, the company that Sakhera Hammad supposedly worked for, Denko Plumbing, doesn't exist, even though it is registered to a man using an alias with the State of New York.

Additionally you have the murder of Katherine Smith, a Hammad co-conspirator in the driver's license fraud. It's an interesting story that you can read more about at the above link.

26 posted on 08/12/2002 2:49:13 PM PDT by honway
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To: ElkGroveDan
Does anyone else know what happened with any of these stories?

It's just too damn bad that FR isn't functionally searchable anymore, isn't it?

27 posted on 08/12/2002 2:50:33 PM PDT by snopercod
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To: honway
Denko Plumbing

Correction: should be Denko Mechanical,Inc.

28 posted on 08/12/2002 2:50:57 PM PDT by honway
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To: Aria; Poohbah; Shermy; snopercod; Squantos; harpseal
See: License suspect had WTC repair pass, but Port Authority did its own work [Tennessee License Scandal], GoMemphis.com, February 16, 2002, by Bartholomew Sullivan (posted by Shermy).
A photo ID pass for Sept. 5 found on one of the men charged with fraudulently obtaining a Tennessee driver's license from a Memphis woman gave him access to the six underground levels of the One World Center building.

But which tenant hired Sakher 'Rocky' Hammad, 24, to work on its sprinklers is lost, said Port Authority of New York and New Jersey spokesman Alan Hicks on Friday.

Hammad told federal authorities that he was working on the sprinklers six days before the twin towers were brought down by terrorists, court testimony revealed this week.

But Hicks said the Port Authority, which owned the building, did its own sprinkler work, and that any other work involving sprinklers would have been arranged by an individual tenant.

"We don't know (which one) because all our records were destroyed in the World Trade Center, as were some of the people who know that," Hicks said.

Small details about the five Middle Eastern men arrested Feb. 5 with Tennessee driver's license examiner Katherine Smith are slowly surfacing. Smith died Sunday in a fiery car crash, a day before she was to appear in court. It appears that Khaled Odtllah of Cordova shared the same 2840 Morning Lake Drive address at different times over the past year with Rocky Hammad, according to an online people finder database.

Odtllah and Hammad also spent time in the Bay Ridge section of Brooklyn in 2000 and lived about 22 blocks apart near New York Harbor.

Calls to the telephone number for Magic Plumbing and Heating Inc. on 93rd Street in Brooklyn were answered Thursday and Friday by a recording that said "Rocky's" voice-mail box was full. Hammad had the firm's business card, according to a government exhibit introduced at this week's detention hearing.

Hammad also had a New York City Police Benevolent Association card, a plastic Detectives Endowment Association Inc. for the Police Department of the City of New York card, two video rental cards, an ATM card and a First Consumers National Bank MasterCard.

Hammad's cousin, Abdelmuhsen Mahmid Hammad, also obtained a Tennessee driver's license last year. He's in the country illegally after overstaying a visa.

Venezuela-born Mohammed Fares, 19, allegedly told authorities that he needed a Tennessee driver's license to drive for Big Boss, an export-import clothing store in New York's garment district. Big Boss Enterprises bookkeeper Hussein Nasser said by phone Friday that he had received several recent inquiries about Fares, but that he'd never worked there. [CYA? Or did he apply for a job there?]

So far almost nothing is known of Mostafa Said Abou-Shahin, 26, a self-employed Egyptian carpenter living in the United State illegally.

All five men are being held without bail at the pretrial facility of the Federal Correctional Institution in Memphis.


29 posted on 08/12/2002 2:51:41 PM PDT by First_Salute
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To: piasa
OK, how the heck did you find those???
30 posted on 08/12/2002 2:51:45 PM PDT by snopercod
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To: jae471
>>>The article said that the Arabs quickly left the plane and were never found. <<<

The coverage of this incident that I read several months ago (if it was the same incident) said that when it was announced that the flight was cancelled, the four Arabs at first refused to leave and demanded that the plane take off. After a vehement argument where the Arabs argued the importance of their "mission" (my word) with I think the pilot and flight attendents, they seemed to have a sudden change of heart and literally ran off the plane and disappeared into the airport crowd.

But the more I think about it, I seem to remember that that report was about another flight from Boston's Logan - where 3 of the 4 hijacked planes originated. This Dallas report may be a totally seperate incident.

Anyone out there remember??

31 posted on 08/12/2002 2:52:03 PM PDT by HardStarboard
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To: All
TN License Scandal Bump List
32 posted on 08/12/2002 2:53:22 PM PDT by honway
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To: snopercod; Aria; Shermy; Poohbah; JeanS; Alamo-Girl; brityank
See:15 Million Taken From NYC Municipal Credit Union ATMs After 9-11 Computer Failure, New York Times, reprinted online at Tampa Bay Tribune.com, Aug. 6, 2002 (posted by Retired Chemist).

From the article:

"Fifteen million dollars was looted from the city's Municipal Credit Union by its own members - including city employees, health care professionals and education workers - when a computer failure caused by the collapse of the World Trade Center allowed virtually unlimited access to money in automated teller machines ... Sixty-six people who withdrew $7,500 or more beyond what was in their accounts have been arrested ... and 35 are being sought for arrest ... "

From Tom Ridge, President's Bush's top man at the HomeLand Security Operation in Washington, DC, in an article at The Washington Times, August 1, 2002:

Department of Hollow Security? (scroll down to paragraph no. 7)

 " ... The vast majority of federal employees are capable, dedicated public servants. ... "

Sure. The article above, may as well have read:

from the Federal Credit Union by its own members - including government employees, federal health care professionals and federal public education workers, members of the N.E.A. -

"Reliable" people, from whom you could probably gain credentials.

33 posted on 08/12/2002 2:57:51 PM PDT by First_Salute
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To: Aria
The water supply for the WTC buildings was only designed to handle a huge fire in one of the buildings. When both buildings were hit there was not enough water to handle both.

The same was true of the pentagon. If that 4th plane had hit the other side of the Pentagon the entire Pentagon would have gone up in smoke. Our entire headquarters for our military would have been destroyed. That includes all the records. Had it succeeded there would not have been the rapid response to Afghanistan. The resourses stored in the pentagon would have had to be recreated first.

The first step in defeating a nation is to take out its military command and control. It is what we did to Sadam in the Gulf war. The worlds 4th largest military became a joke once we destroyed its command and control.

If we had lost our primary command and control we would not be so safe today.

Conversely if only one plane had hit the WTC only a few hundred would have died. You'll recall the tower that was hit last went down first. The first tower was going to make it with the sprinkler system beating down the fire. When the second tower was hit and its sprinklers ativated, there was not enough pressure and capacity to send water to the top of either building. The second building never got any water and fell first.

34 posted on 08/12/2002 3:00:25 PM PDT by Common Tator
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To: Common Tator
The water supply for the WTC buildings was only designed to handle a huge fire in one of the buildings. When both buildings were hit there was not enough water to handle both.

Do you have any information about how the fire suppression system that included water storage tanks on the top of both towers was effected?

35 posted on 08/12/2002 3:04:32 PM PDT by honway
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To: Shermy
I am pretty certain that other hijacker teams were aboard other aircraft but their flights never left the ground. We will never know how many lives the Bush Administration and the FAA saved by immediately grounding all airplanes that day. Personally I think that they had a whole day of terror planned.
36 posted on 08/12/2002 3:05:11 PM PDT by SamAdams76
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To: clamboat
They were held without charge for many months and eventualy the FBI cleared them of suspicion. They might have been deported afterward, but I don't think there was any link established to any of the hijackers or any terrorists

I think the bolded part is important.

I don't think any of the hijackers of the planes that actually did the attacks knew of the other ones.

That is the way they play this type of thing, on a need to know basis.

I think the box cutters were a dead giveaway, after all they were used on all of the hijackings.

I doubt if these guys just happened to have forgotten they had the boxcutters in their possesions cause they just got off work at the local 7-11...

37 posted on 08/12/2002 3:06:29 PM PDT by Syncro
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To: HardStarboard
Your report sounds familiar -- especially the part about them demanding the plane take off. I'm not 100% sure of the dallas connection -- the more I think about it, I think that may have been a FReeper vanity about a second incident.
38 posted on 08/12/2002 3:06:52 PM PDT by jae471
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To: SamAdams76
I agree
39 posted on 08/12/2002 3:06:55 PM PDT by Syncro
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To: Common Tator
The first tower was going to make it with the sprinkler system beating down the fire. When the second tower was hit and its sprinklers ativated, there was not enough pressure and capacity to send water to the top of either building. The second building never got any water and fell first

Interesting information. I would appreciate it if you could point me in the right direction to find a source for the information.

40 posted on 08/12/2002 3:08:24 PM PDT by honway
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To: Common Tator
Maybe two or three people in the entire United States will pause to think about what has happened to the engineering manpower pool in this country over the last 20 years.

But then I'm an optimist...

41 posted on 08/12/2002 3:11:44 PM PDT by snopercod
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To: Aria
The waterlines were severed by the plane impact.
42 posted on 08/12/2002 3:14:45 PM PDT by habs4ever
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To: snopercod
Frustrating.

I was at ABQ that morning, having arrived at the airport just when the announcement of no flights was made.

There was a TV van out front and three Albuquerque police officers, and maybe 100 people around.

No attempt was made to secure the airport thereafter for the purpose of keeping on the ground there, any teams of terrorists.

No police checkpoint, nor even one patrol car, at the exit had been established to check peoples' faces --- the news media van would have been a great asset for filming all departing parties.

43 posted on 08/12/2002 3:16:45 PM PDT by First_Salute
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To: habs4ever
The waterlines were severed by the plane impact.

Do you base that on the conclusion that the plane impacted at the location of the waterlines and all the waterlines were located in one place?

The reason I ask is because the two different towers were impacted in two different locations.

44 posted on 08/12/2002 3:20:08 PM PDT by honway
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To: jae471
Your report sounds familiar -- especially the part about them demanding the plane take off. I'm not 100% sure of the dallas connection -- the more I think about it, I think that may have been a FReeper vanity about a second incident.

IIRC, this was the flight that was bound for Denver. Again, IIRC, speculation was that their target was Rocky Mountain Arsenal.

45 posted on 08/12/2002 3:20:08 PM PDT by RoughDobermann
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To: honway
Do you base that on the conclusion that the plane impacted at the location of the waterlines and all the waterlines were located in one place?

No, it means that the sprinkler systems on the floors actually hit were rendered inoperative. F = M*A and all that.

46 posted on 08/12/2002 3:22:40 PM PDT by Poohbah
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To: Aria
I had never heard about the sprinkler system being disabled. Is there any theory about how that happened?

In a word, sabotage. Kathleen Harris, the woman who gave out false licenses in Tenn, was killed in a highly suspicious car fire. Her car was seen with the passenger compartment fully involved in flames BEFORE it crashed. Fire fighters said the fire was strange in that it kept reignighting.

Some sick f really likes to burn people.

47 posted on 08/12/2002 3:24:36 PM PDT by null and void
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To: jae471
Maybe an urban myth?

One such tie emerged on Wednesday, 19 September. At least four people being sought in the terror investigation, including one now in custody, were booked on one or more flights on the 22nd leaving San Antonio. Some were headed to Denver; others were continuing to California.

Source

48 posted on 08/12/2002 3:25:00 PM PDT by RoughDobermann
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To: honway
The water was gushing down some stairwells and wasn't going through the sprinklers, according to some of the stories I have bookmarked on my page.
49 posted on 08/12/2002 3:25:30 PM PDT by habs4ever
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To: null and void
*sigh* Kathleen SMITH.
50 posted on 08/12/2002 3:27:00 PM PDT by null and void
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