Posted on 08/23/2002 5:39:18 PM PDT by SheLion
Burlem, that attempt to increase the tax on cigarettes is not dead, it's sitting in committee, and I expect it will be rammed through toward the end of next week, prbably minutes before the legislative session ends. That will make the price of cigarettes in Kookiefornia equivalent to NYC. Never fear, though, Robber Reiner has already been to Washington and made a deal to get FEDERAL FUNDING for his $700 million a year programs if the taxes on tobacco products fall. I'm absolutely amazed that Americans are putting up with this crap.
BTW, time for another lecture to ANYONE who still pays into the Smoker Shakedown...SMOKE CHEAP, IT'S YOUR CIVIC DUTY!! Buy online, buy from the reservations, or make your own additive-free, virtually tax-free cigarettes for less than $8 a CARTON in about an hour.
JUST DO IT!
Well that's quite a statement. Could you give us some details. I really want to know. I promise not to flame you.
Thanks for the promise! I certainly hope I would catch myself before ever flaming anyone with mercy's screen (or real) name.
I agree that it is a sweeping statement. There are thousands of turgid articles in epidemiology and related medical journals making such claims, and no one person can examine them all. But most are pitifully weak from a scientific proof standpoint.
I strongly recommend the book "The Rise and Fall of Modern Medicine" by James Le Fanu. The first half of the book, on the rise of modern medicine, is consistently facinating, and the ending section, on the fall of most medical research into near irrelevance, tackles this issue far better than I could ever attempt to.
A good internet link (but not as good as that book) is:
As you well know, smoke from fires, as opposed to hot gas, or the fire itself, accounts for a large amount of fire fatalities. No one ever died from cigarette smoke. Although it has been a couple of years since I reviewed the literature on second hand smoke. The cruel experiments would pipe the equivalent of the smoke of thousands of cigarettes a day, for months into rats, and I believe, dogs lungs via intubation. Nada. Nothing. The researchers wanted to get a graph of respiratory cancers rates in relation to side stream cig smoke. For example, more cigs, more cancer, less cigs less cancer. Even with rodents especially breed to get cancer, no one has been able to induce it under any circumstances. Hence the honest statement that there is no safe level of second hand smoke. There is also no unsafe level either, since no cancers could be manufactured under any circumstances.
Lastly, everything is toxic and fatal, to include water and oxygen. It is just a matter of dose. It isn't the substances that makes the poison, it is the amount.
One other thing, what is this "civilian" bit. What are you in the Marine Corps? If you are not in the military, you're a civilian. And don't give me that "I'm in a paramilitary organization." That is like para-pregant. Yachts clubs have legal characters and have captains and admirals, never the less they’re still like everyone else, citizens.
Not in the Marines yet, hopefully I will be come January.
By civilian I think they are not including the deaths of firefighters who respond to the fatal fires. NFPA's terminology - not mine - take up your gripe with them.
http://www.nfpa.org/Research/OneStopDataShop/OneStopDataShop.asp#leading - and click on "See more information about the leading causes of fires "
Enjoy the following on second hand smoke - which has a lot of bad stuff in it that I do not want to be exposed to. I am off to run 10 miles. See ya!
http://www.repace.com/fact_exp.html
Secondhand Smoke Exposure
SHS is a complex mixture of gas and particle-phase chemicals generated during the burning and smoking of tobacco products (CalEPA, 1997). Chemicals present in SHS include irritants and systemic toxicants such as hydrogen cyanide and sulfur dioxide, mutagens and carcinogens such as benzo(a)pyrene, formaldehyde and 4-aminobiphenyl, and reproductive toxicants such as nicotine, cadmium, and carbon monoxide (CalEPA, 1997). Many SHS constituents have been identified as hazardous by state, federal, and international agencies. To date, over 50 compounds in tobacco smoke have been identified as carcinogens and six as developmental or reproductive toxicants by the State of California. Table 2 shows 43 known or suspected carcinogens in tobacco smoke identified by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC, 1987).
Oh for heaven's sake. Where did you get that garbage.
Here's a op-ed I wrote for the paper awhile back:
Don’t swallow that food while you’re dining out
In response to the letter by Paul L. Perito, chairman and president, Star Scientific Inc: Cigarettes and cigarette smoke contain a multitude of toxic chemicals, according to anti-smoking zealots. Therefore, the public must be protected from evil smokers who would threaten the health of nonsmoking men, women and children in places like restaurants and bars.
But what exactly are those helpless victims eating and drinking in their smoke-free, toxic-free non-smoking section of the restaurant? You might be surprised. Holding your breath while you eat might protect you from toxic secondhand smoke, but don’t swallow that food!
Everybody likes roast turkey, especially when the whole family is around the table. Hope they like heterocyclic amines, too. Nothing goes better with turkey than some bread stuffing ethyl alcohol, benzo(a)pyrene, ethyl carbamate, furan derivatives, furfural, dihydrazines, d-limonene, psoralens, quercetin glycosides and safrole. Nothing says “Happy Holidays” like cranberry sauce, unless it’s the furan derivatives that go with it.
How about some prime rib of beef with parsley sauce? Use lots of ketchup unless you have a taste for heterocyclic amines and psoralens. How about some broccoli spears? The allyl isothiocyanate ought to kill the taste. Who doesn’t like a nice baked potato? Can’t have too much ethyl alcohol and caffeic acid, I suppose. Perhaps you prefer a sweet potato instead. You’ll still get your dose of ethyl alcohol, but with a shot of furfural to boot. No meal is complete without rolls and butter. Or the ethyl alcohol, benzo(a)pyrene, ethyl carbamate, furan derivatives and furfural that come with it.
Save room for dessert pumpkin pie is good, even with the benzo(a)pyrene, coumarin and safrole inside. Apple pie is my favorite, though I’d rather not think about the acetaldehyde, caffeic acid, coumarin, estragole, ethyl alcohol, quercetin glycoside and safrole that go with it. Fresh apples, pears, grapes or mangos? They’re always good, even with the acetaldehyde, benzaldehyde, caffeic acid, d-limonene, estragole and quercetin glycosides. Anybody else need a drink after all that?
If you drink enough red wine, you won’t notice the ethyl alcohol and ethyl carbamate. If you drink so much that it’s time for a cup of coffee, the benzo(a)pyrene, benzaldehyde, benzene, benzofuran, caffeic acid, catechol, 1,2,5,6-dibenz(a)anthracene, d-limonene, ethyl benzene, furan, furfural, hydrogen peroxide and hydroquinone might do you some good. Or not. If tea is more to your liking, you might need some sugar to mask the taste of the benzo(a)pyrene and quercetin glycosides.
And for you health-conscious types who prefer only herbal teas, have some symphytine with your comfrey tea. Or some benzyl acetate with your jasmine tea. A cigarette might taste good after all that.
gop guy, Repace is a certifiable lunatic. I know, I know, he bills himself as the "world's leading expert on secondhand smoke," and he used to work for the EPA, but that's only part of the Repace story.
When he worked for the EPA, even though the entire agency was smokefree, he claimed there were "toxins" in the air that made him sick. He demanded, and got, permission to work at home. On occasion, though, he was required to come into EPA headquarters for meetings, etc., and he wore a GAS MASK. He also sued EPA for those imaginary toxins causing his illnesses--which it turns out were all in his head. He lost.
This is the guy who says with a straight face that it would take winds of 300 mph to clear smoke from a room. At one meeting I attended, he upped that figure to 700 mph!! Just saw a special on Hurricane Andrew, one of the 3 worst hurricanes ever experienced here in the US, and the strongest gusts recorded were right at 200 mph. Repace also believes molecules of tobacco smoke hang around and jump out and attack those who enter the room where people have smoked in the past month or even longer. Will you PLEASE use your common sense??? Please?
FYI, the paragraph you quote uses the CalEPA report for its justification. The CalEPA report was based almost exclusively on the US EPA report which was a total farce and has been invalidated by a federal judge. It's also deceptive.
OSHA says the amount of toxins found in shs seldom if ever reach the necessary level to be considered dangerous. Toxicologists have proven that it would take THOUSANDS of cigarettes burning simultaneously in an UNVENTILATED room to reach permissible levels of ALL those things he mentions. The dose makes the poison. That's why the arsenic in your drinking water or the salt on your food won't kill you.
You have been bamboozled, dude, by a well-funded, very slick bunch of snake oil pitchmen and you've swallowed it whole. It's fine if you don't want to be "exposed to" environmental tobacco smoke and there's no reason in this day and age you ever should be. Just stay out of smoker-friendly places and you need never smell tobacco smoke. Just realize that it's not because it will harm you, it's because you don't like it.
Oh dear, watch out for those car fumes, they will kill you.
No, but I'm sure there were times when my mother wouldn't have argued if you'd tried to claim me :)
Listen Mr. Smug. There is not a gay bone in my body and I resent the reference that you think I am! Or you think any of us in here are.
Most gays cannot smoke, because of their immune system being so worn out. You seem to want to lump smokers in with all the ills of the earth. Well, I beg to differ with you. We are not the demons you would like us to be.
See how little you really do know? The MSA or Tobacco Settlement Money is paid 100% by the smokers who pay taxes on cigarettes. Big Tobacco does not pay one penny. The Government is paying not one penny. It all comes from the taxes that are imposed on the smokers.
ah - far more appropriate in describing you suckers who started smoking and keep smoking because the billions spent on advertising by Big Tobacco:
He is just a basher, Max. Might be good for debating, but I can't see any blinders coming off.
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