Col. Hackworth against Iraq invasion(huh?)-Hannity & Colmes

Fox News Channel ^ | 10/14/02 | hannity and colmes

[Diddle E. Squat]

Col. David Hackworth just was on H&C, arguing against the pending invasion of Iraq. Claimed that because our chem warfare outfits may not work, that Bush is "sending America's blue collar sons to die", and that it is really about oil.

[Arioch7]

Oh, pardon the typos. They were typos passion! :D

[poet]

I agree that the Col has changed, but, the gist of my post is, what if he is correct about our soldier's equipment not being able to withstand a chemical attack. My post was not meant as an endorsement of Hackworth, rather, I was more interested in the validity of his claim. If he is correct, then our young men are being set-up for an impossible task.

As you all know, some politicians have stated that it's ok to lie to the American people under the guise of "National Security". That, my friends, is BS. We should never be lied to.

FReegards

[ApesForEvolution]

I concur. I sense we will have marched 99 yards down the field and all we will know about is the quick 1 yard punch into the end zone for the score.

[Arioch7]

Thanks... you made me blush. We are the majority and we will win. As long as people care, the cause of decency is not lost.

Thank YOU! :D

[Prodigal Son]

I believe you. I served with loads of Gulf War Vets. This was when the whole Saudi Syndrome started to be a buzzword- 1992 or thereabouts. They'd sit around and discuss whether they thought they had it or not or whether they should claim to have it or not. A lot of the guys were like you- they didn't want to lie about it. But sadly, I saw my fair share that came right out and said they'd do it to get the benefits.

There's a lot of animosity on this subject. While my wife was a medical student in Germany, she did a short practical stint in the Military Hospital in Wuerzburg. The doctor she was working with was doing a study and compiling data on Saudi Syndrome. He had to go down to Vilseck and give a speech and presentation to an auditorium full of Joes who thought they had been affected. My wife and I figured we would drive down to see how it went since we (mainly she) were interested and involved to some small degree.

The Doc's presentation didn't go over too well. Joe didn't want to hear it. Joe wanted to hear that he had some weird ailment. I mean, I'm a layman. But come on- A thousand different non related symptoms but all part of the same disease? And we're talking symptoms ranging from baldness to trouble sleeping to general feelings of unease, moodiness, "always sick" (I loved that one personally- we had guys that were always sick in the Platoon and we called 'em shammers). It just don't add up. My experience with human nature tells me the more likely cause of Saudi Syndrome is the prospect of a lifetime gov't ride.

I agree with your assessment. There are no doubt a small number of soldiers who actually were sickened by something over there- but this Saudi Syndrome has gotten blown out of all proportion. What are the numbers up to now? Something like 25% of the vets that were there have it now?

Hats off to you for your integrity.

[dsutah]

I admire your honesty! You would never feel right if you did that, and accepted the money! As for Col. Hackworth, I don't know what to think. Ever since he allowed himself to be a sounding board for active-duty soldiers, and veterans during the Clinton Administration, I've admired the guy! But I sure don't know what's gotten into him lately. He sounds suspiciously like Scott Ritter!

[Arioch7]

Thanks man! I will respond in depth later but it is 2:30 an do have to work in the morn.

Hats off to you as well for seving with the vets.

[Prodigal Son]

Actually, I served from 1990- 1998. My unit didn't deploy to the Gulf- although it seemed like just about every other unit did. We got to guard the PX and housing area and spend a lot more time in Hohenfels. Thems the breaks. When I finally got deployed it was to stupid missions like Macedonia and Bosnia. Had I known 9/11 was going to happen, I would've stayed in, but back in 98 it looked like the future held just more perpetual feel good peacekeeping and BS deployments. Not what an infantryman really wants to do.

[Arioch7]

I hear you about not wanting to be perpetual peace-keepers. What a drag. I do not blame you at all for not wanting to sit around all day like a glorified security guard. I would have loved to see that seminar... LOL! I hate to belittle thier sickness, but enough is enough. I wonder who the hell came up with this phenomenon in the first place.

I will bet you have an interesting perspective on how much the service changed between 1990-1998. I can see from your post that you wer not exactly in love with the idea of staying in. I was in the Navy with Strike-Fighter Squadron 83 from 89-93. Thats the squadron with Cdr. Stumpf in it. He was my CO. His story is on www.military.com an awesome site! Poet, I am not exactly in the know yet I find it hard to believe that the Military would willfully expose so many of its personnel to that type of danger. To be really calculating about it, I do not think it is cost effective.

To everyone else, thank you for your kind words, they are a little embarassing but I just HAD to tell this story as it is obviously beyond the pale. I think most people here would have done the same thing. Thats why we're Freepers! :D

[rangerX]

Your concerns about chemical equipment are probably overblown. During the time I spent in the Army, we received technical bulletins, I believe on a monthly basis, which told us, by production lot number, which protective mask filters, chemical protective suits, etc., were no longer good, and had to be destroyed or turned in. Each company had an NCO designated to maintain the chemical gear for the company, and to ensure that the gear was still operational. When we deployed to the Gulf for Desert Shield, we checked all this equipment very closely, and made damn sure that all lot numbers were good. It is safe to assume that our troops are doing the same thing to prepare.

[RightWhale]

When he talks on what he knows, military training and tactics, he is very good. If Saddam uses chemical weapons, there could be a problem moving ground forces forward. It means the air campaign will be more intensive for a while.

[Registered]

Well, if I could choose who to provide me with military advice, I would certainly pick Hackworth over 99.9% of anyone that posts in this thread.

;-)

[The Great Satan]

Hackworth thinks that the armed forces are an encounter group for macho posturing and masculine self-esteem reinforcement therapy. It doesn't occur to him that soldiers are supposed to defend the country, which might actually involve getting killed.

[jwalsh07]

Twenty Eight years ago when I was the unit CBR NCO, the Army was a different place. Then I would have said that the units I was familiar with were not prepared to fight in a CB environment. I believe that is where Hackworth is coming from.

Times have changed and todays troops know damn well and good that their equipment and their knowledge of CB could be what stands between them and the reaper. I'm so far out of the loop that I couldn't offer an educated opinion but my guess is that the line units are damn well prepared for CB attacks.

[John Lenin]

Remember what Bush said, were going to 'Smoke' them out. I don't think an American is going in until most of Iraqs military infrastucture is destroyed. We could starve them out in 3 months with a good blockade.

[rangerX]

All I know is that when we went across the border into Iraq wearing all our chemical gear except our mask and gloves, we were a little nervous about chem/bio, but still had confidence in our ability to deal with it. It was pretty routine in my units in Bragg and Germany to go up to 6 hours in full chemical gear, and to also go through hasty and deliberate decontaminations, to include getting the actual chemical corps folks out to decon us with their equipment.

[jwalsh07]

Its been over a decade since you were there. If the Commanders haven't prepared by now knowing what you guys found there.....

By the way, thanks.

[Criminal Number 18F]

Why?

In a phrase, he was burned out. He had spent most of five years in Vietnam, and a bunch of it in combat. He became convinced that all the leadership was lyingm, and that he and he alone had the truth....

And then he took this campaign onto TV. In a fit of pique he decided to tear down as much of the Army as he could on the way out. That POd the brass and they started going over him with a toothcomb. They found a lot of violations of regulations and questionable financial stuff. The deal he got was, "retire now, and stay the hell out of the USA, and we won't send you to jail."

He took the deal, and stayed out until the statutes of limitations and repose on various things were at an end.

The press loves him because he is a rarity, a combat soldier who is left-liberal and speaks out against the military. So he matches their prejudices in most cases.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F