Democrats in Distress - and their Suicide Queen (vanity, about Pelosi and the Democrats in general)

My Pointed Head | 11/08/02 | xm177e2

[xm177e2]

As far as the contention that Republicans must be "scared" of Pelosi, most FReepers absolutely love the idea of her becoming House Minority Leader.

[sneakypete]

I suppose that if all we know about Bill and Hill is true, Pelosi will die in another air crash and pretty soon - If she is elected Hillary can kiss her presidential hopes good bye (and may be even hopes for re-election).

Really? I see it as being the exact opposite. I think Bubbette! wants a shrill feminist at the head of the DNC for a couple of reasons. One is this describes Bubbette! herself,so Bubbette! would see her as a mainstream candidate who will cause the wymen to come out and vote. Secondly,it strengthens her hold on the DNC and her ability to manuever behind the scenes to insure she is "drafted" late in the 2004 presidential election. Pelosi as the minority leader is the equivalent of McAuliff at the DNC. It just allows her and hubby better control.

[timestax]

Really? I see it as being the exact opposite. I think Bubbette! wants a shrill feminist at the head of the DNC for a couple of reasons. One is this describes Bubbette! herself,so Bubbette! would see her as a mainstream candidate who will cause the wymen to come out and vote. Secondly,it strengthens her hold on the DNC and her ability to manuever behind the scenes to insure she is "drafted" late in the 2004 presidential election. Pelosi as the minority leader is the equivalent of McAuliff at the DNC. It just allows her and hubby better control. 42 posted on 11/09/2002 0:30 AM PST by sneakypete

DITTO !

[bain_sidhe]

Well, it's been a tough few days, and the many "gloaters" who showed up hasn't made the "leadership" any more tolerant. (BTW, it's not David Lytel... he's at Democrats.com, not DU)

Why it's such a good idea... Do you ever watch West Wing? It's the same sentiment expressed by the character played by Ron Silver (Bruno, I think his name is), who said in one episode:

"Because I am tired of working for candidates who make me think I should be embarrassed to believe what I believe, Sam. I'm tired of getting them elected. We all need some therapy, because someone came along and said that liberal means "soft on crime." Soft on drugs. Soft on communism. Soft on defense. And we're gonna tax you back to the stone age because people shouldn't have to go to work if they don't want to. And instead of saying, 'Well, excuse me, you right-wing, reactionary xenophobic, homophobic, anti-education, anti-choice, pro-gun, Leave-it-to-Beaver-trip-back-to-the-fifties!' we cowered in the corner and said, 'Please. Don't. Hurt. Me.' No more. I really don't care who's right, who's wrong. We're both right, we're both wrong."

We have ideas. We think they're GOOD ideas. But our leadership for some time, instead of promoting - or even just presenting those ideas in a straightforward manner - has been saying "Don't call me liberal... I'm not so bad, really." I, personally, am looking forward to a leader who says, "Yes, I'm a liberal, and here's what I believe: I don't think people should die from lack of health insurance. I don't think profitible corporations should get tax breaks that minimum wage workers have to pay for. I don't think we should make the planet uninhabitable. I don't think the wealthy should be able to buy their way out of responsbility for their actions."

Well, you get the idea...

[bain_sidhe]

OK, checked the links and I see the connection. I didn't find anything that showed Pelosi was a member of the Democratic Socialists of America, but did see that they "work with" the Progressive Caucus, which she IS a member of. So, when you say she's a member, do you mean "member" by association, or did you find something else that indicated that she's also a member of DSA?

[goldstategop]

That's exactly why Bubba wants to keep McAwful around. The DNC has become less a campaign war room for the Democrats than its become Bubba's personal slush fund. No wonder he wants to keep such a tight grip on the party's purse. As far as he's concerned its HIS money.

[goldstategop]

Oh yeah. Pelosi is targeting the college age vote in Ithaca and at U.C Bezerkeley and saying to hell with the rest of the country. Who cares what Peoria really thinks as long as our loyal liberal foot soldiers come out for us. That's the kind of thinking driving the Democratic Party's Left over the cliffs right now.

[joonbug]

My only concern is that this all seems too good to be true. If the Clintons are running things, which I think they are at least to some degree, they are both too politically savy to veer way left. They were masters of triangulation and keeping close to the center. Perhaps something else is in the works? Perhaps this shift left sets the stage for Hillary to come to the rescue as a "moderate democrat" who would be welcome with open arms after this far left shift? Big stakes here and the Dems are not idiots. Things may not be as simple as them seem. Other thoughts?

[goldstategop]

I think Pelosi and the Democrats Left is fed up with Bubba and McAwful and their triangulation politics. They'd like to get rid of the devil but they can't. They're like this hump on their backs who keeps them from being the true liberals they were born to be.

[xm177e2]

No, the Progressive Caucus was created by the DSA to further their agenda. If she's not an actual socialist, she's at least a sympathizer working to further their agenda. Or the question comes up... what is she doing in their caucus if she isn't a socialist?

[xm177e2]

They deleted my thread, didn't they? It was a good thread. Yeah.

Well, I found out what I wanted to know. Some of the Democrats think there will be another recession (because of Bush's economic policies) and this will totally alter the playing field, allowing Pelosi and the hard-left Dems to score major victories against the Republicans. I think this is more of the "Bush is a fool and bad things will happen to him" school of thought, which has proven to be... less than reliable. Or maybe it's Marxist-type "inevitable decline of evil capitalist blah blah blah"... who knows.

More of the Democrats seem to think there's a massive amount of people just waiting to vote for a hard left candidate, if one presents her/himself as actually electable. Energizing the base will lead to a massive turnout, people who never vote will come to the polls...

Naturally, I don't buy in to either theory. I think this is a huge mistake. It's too bad that I don't have the thread still on DU to link back to a year or two from now, I'll just have to make do with linking to this thread here on FR. Ohhhh welllll.....

Maybe what we need is a third site, to serve as a halfway point between DU and FR, so we might have some sort of reconciliation... it would be nice to make friends with the enemy. If Wellstone and that old Republican guy could be friends, why can't we? Maybe I can convince JimRob to set up an extra forum just for debating with the Other Side...

[prognostigaator]

Excerpt from Breslin,11/7 in Newsday......

"All these years later, I didn't realize there was an election this week until the Sunday before. On election day, I was in neighborhoods where they should have been calling out Carl McCall's name. There was no sound. Then I realized that this silence was right, that there was no election. McCall was the candidate, but he did not ruin the politics here.

It was shameless Bill Clinton who used the Democratic Party and left it with a hyphen. Not because of his trailer camp sex, nor his lying under oath to a grand jury. Rather, he merged the Democratic Party with the Republican Party.
The Democratic-Republican Party. He left the Democrats with no issues, no purpose, no aim, no desire for anything except keeping the job.

Do whatever the Republicans do. They want a tax cut that can break us? Good. Vote for it. They want a war? Of course. "

[Cvengr]

I believe we share the same insight.

An interesting feature of Sen Pelosi becoming Minority Leader is that Hillary must accept that she not only is second fiddle, but there really isn't anything Hillary can do to ever advance herself over Pelosi in stature if she assumes that role.

Even if she plotted to hold the office of President, she wouldn't eer usurp the natural stature that Pelosi would hae established for herself.

An eternal catfight would evolve at the upper echelons of the free-world,....Ughhhh

[xm177e2]

Oops, the didn't delete my thread after all. I found it (hooray) (nobody better try to disrupt DU on my thread)

[Cvengr]

"Yes, I'm a liberal, and here's what I believe: I don't think people should die from lack of health insurance. I don't think profitible corporations should get tax breaks that minimum wage workers have to pay for. I don't think we should make the planet uninhabitable. I don't think the wealthy should be able to buy their way out of responsbility for their actions."

President Bush, Sir, we're honored to read your position here at FR!

[BoomerBabe]

I don't understand why the Democrats would be doing more to capture the "female vote". I was under the impression they already have the "female vote". If I were them, I would be doing more to encourage men to vote Democratic. It seems as if there is more virture in having women vote for you than men. I can't imagine most men will be attracted to the Democrats if they put a shrill socialist feminist in charge. Furthermore, I suspect they already have the shrill socialist feminist vote, and the rest of us women won't be budged by even more leftist leaning ideas.

[Southack]

The funny thing about Democrats is that on the one hand they claim that Republicans won this election because America "voted the war" instead of voting the economy, but on the other hand, they elect to be their spokeswoman their one senior Congresswoman who voted AGAINST the war.

By their own logic, Pelosi is the wrong choice. She voted against the war, and it was the war that decided the elction (per them). Fortunately for us Conservatives, the dual-identity of Democrats continues to be in play.

In 2004, Democrats have to defend 19 Senate seats (versus 14 for Repubs - presuming that there are no more defections - particularly in Florida). In that same year, the Democrats have to fund their Presidential run. To say the least, money is going to be rather tight for them, especially after the way that McAwful raped Sanchez in Texas for over $30 Million this time around. Moreover, Democrats in Florida mortgaged the Florida teachers' union headquarters building for $1.7 million this year to fund McBride's TV ads (a 30 year mortgage of interest plus principle for 30 minutes of air time), among other such tactical mistakes.

On top of those items of note, Pelosi will be making her national push to retake the House (since that's her power base).

And in this environment of tight money, the Democrats are going to be fighting an uphill fight against the most popular wartime President in American history.

In short, the Democrats are going to get creamed; moreso because mainstream Americans don't identify with shrill San Fransisco socialists (if they did, there would be a lot more Pelosi's visible in the Heartland, and there aren't).

But this is all expected. It is only natural for Democrats to recoil into a fetal position that resides solely in its core base of Left-leaning baby-boomer radicals (after such a "shock" as this most recent election, at least).

Faced with choosing between winning and their core beliefs, the Democrats chose "winning" in this most recent election, lost badly, and are now fleeing back towards their core beliefs (as witnessed in Pelosi).

Oh, but you don't think that the Democrats chose "winning" over their core beliefs in this past election?! Well, consider first that McAwful was promoted over (tenured) Smith (who is Black) to his position as DNC fundraiser/spokeman. Then Page, who is Black, was dissed for elite-White-name-recognition Mondale to replace Wellstone. The Wellstone rally-at-the-memorial also shows that Dems were far more concerned with "winning" than with mourning their fallen comrade. Moreover, consider that lilly-White Pelosi is getting promoted over the one man who had the courage to stand up to Gephardt, Ford (who is Black). Not that any of this is really a new trend, Democrats blasted Clarence Thomas, who is Black, as well (but that was long before this current election fiasco).

And now that we are back to dealing with today and the future, we can see that the Democrats are retreating from their "winning" strategy back towards their core principles (i.e. fight against the war, even though Democrats are publicly stating loudly, longly, and often that it was the "war" that won the election for Republicans).

And I encourage this trend. Go Pelosi! Freepers are rooting for you to first smash Ford and then to later show all of America that you are a pro-choice, card-carrying international socialist who wants to nationalize healthcare (hey, anyone remember how well Republicans did after Hillary tried that very thing back in 1993??) and leave Saddam Hussein alone to develop all of the nukes that he cares to build.

I'd be hard-pressed to think of a better person for Republicans to have as a visible opponent than Pelosi.

I'm licking my chops. I can't wait. The next thing that would thrill me would be for Dashcle to be replaced by a Kennedy, Byrd, or Rockefeller. Heck, since White, California radical females seems to be the current rage among Democrats, why not have pro-Cuba Boxer or Feinstein replace him?!

Mmmm... Tasty Democrats self-imploding by actually revealing their true colors. Delicious (and good for the future health of our great nation)!

[goldstategop]

The Democrats are soft and cuddly and that's why women feel an attraction to them in good times. Though I suspect that in dangerous times like right now women look for a party that's strong and tough to make them feel safer. In other words when it comes to the so-called gender gap and Republicans seeming inability to attract female voters, that it can overstated too much.

[Dog Gone]

Democrats are free to diss blacks at every opportunity, because they've successfully brainwashed the vast majority of them into thinking that a Republican alternative is unthinkable.

Blacks are so grateful for this, that they don't whine whine Bill Clinton signs legislation ending generational welfare dependence, and instead elect him to the Black Hall of Fame.

Blacks have the "battered-wife syndrome" and love the one who abuses them the most.

[Mamzelle]

re:Democrats in Florida mortgaged the Florida teachers' union headquarters building for $1.7 million this year to fund McBride's TV ads )))

!!!! shock !!!! Please tell me more. How can this be done legally? The c103-5 won't let them, if they are a non-profit under that code.