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Bits Of History Suggest Utah Is Location Of Mythic Aztlan
The Salt Lake Tribune ^ | 11-17-2002 | Tim Sullivan

Posted on 11/17/2002 4:41:56 PM PST by blam

Bits of History Suggest Utah Is Location of Mythic Aztlan

Sunday, November 17, 2002

University of Utah professor Armando Sol-rzano holds a replica of an official map of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo from 1847 that identifies Utah as the homeland of the Aztecs. The Aztecs left the mythic Aztlan, which some scholars say is present-day Utah, to build a civilization in the Valley of Mexico. (Steve Griffin/The Salt Lake Tribune)

BY TIM SULLIVAN, BY TIM SULLIVAN
(c) 2002, THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE
THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE

It was a map drawn in 1768 by a Spaniard in Paris that sent Roberto Rodriguez running toward Aztlan. As a Mexican American, Rodriguez long had pondered the historical location of Aztlan, the mythic homeland of the Aztecs. Six years ago, he and his wife, Patrisia Gonzales, found tantalizing directions in Don Joseph Antonio Alzate y Ramirez's map of North America. Where present-day Utah would be, and next to a large body of water called "Laguna de Teguyo," are the words: "From these desert contours, the Mexican Indians were said to have left to found their empire." That cryptic message is one clue among many -- a petroglyph etched on a sandstone wall in eastern Utah's Sego Canyon, an 1847 United States map highlighting the confluences of the Colorado, Green and San Juan rivers in southern Utah, a mound and more petroglyphs just outside Vernal -- that have researchers considering a new angle on the history of the southwestern United States.

"Some don't believe [Aztlan] was true, like Atlantis or the Garden of Eden," says Roger Blomquist, a doctoral student at the University of Nebraska at Lincoln. "But I'm convinced it's in Utah. The evidence is very compelling. It's building a mosaic that supports that thesis."

Since the 1960s and '70s civil rights movement, Chicano activists have used the name Aztlan to describe the American Southwest as a northern homeland for Americans of Mexican heritage. But for much longer, people all over the world have been trying to pinpoint the historical location of the legendary place the Aztecs left to build their civilization in the Valley of Mexico.

Rodriguez says Aztlan's literal and figurative meanings are both relevant to his search.
"People would always tell us to 'go back to where we came from,' " Rodriguez says. "Then we came up with this map. Our work is about whether we belong or not."

Western scholars, Catholic clergy, Chicano activists and even the Aztecs themselves have been seeking Aztlan for more than 500 years. They have put much of their energy into gleaning facts from the story that tells of a people emerging from the bowels of the earth through seven caves and settling on an island called Aztlan, translated as "place of the egrets," or "place of whiteness."

Acting upon a command from a spirit, these people left Aztlan and went south until they came upon an eagle devouring a serpent in the present-day location of Mexico City, where historical records suggest they founded the city Tenochtitlan in the 14th century. But in 1433, Aztec leaders burned the picture books that recounted the migration to the Valley of Mexico, leaving only oral tradition and the name Aztlan.

The Aztec king Motecuhzoma I was probably the first to investigate seriously the location of Aztlan. In the 1440s, he sent 60 magicians north for a journey that itself became a legend -- according to chronicler Diego Duran, these pilgrims encountered a supernatural being who transformed them into birds, and they flew to Aztlan.

After the Spanish conquered the Aztecs in the early 16th century, they began studying the Aztecs' origins. Francisco Clavijero, a Jesuit priest, in 1789 deduced that Aztlan lay north of the Colorado River. Other Mexican, European and American historians put Aztlan in the Mexican state of Michoacan, Florida, California, even Wisconsin. Many others deny it ever existed. But perhaps the most widely accepted historical location of Aztlan is that proposed by historian Alfredo Chavero in 1887. Retracing Nu-o de Guzman's 1530 expedition north from the Valley of Mexico, Chavero deduced that Aztlan was an island off the coast of the Mexican state of Nayarit called Mexcaltitlan.

Modern-day scholars who favor Utah as an Aztec homeland use some of these studies and chronicles to advance their theories, which range geographically from Salt Lake Valley to the Uinta Mountains to the Colorado Plateau. But each of these researchers also seems to have his or her own trump card.

Rodriguez's curiosity originally was spurred by a copy of an 1847 map of the boundaries drawn by the Treaty of Guadalupe Hildalgo, but quickly expanded to "a hundred others," including the chart Alzate y Ramirez created for the Royal Academy of Sciences in Paris. The maps touched off "Aztlanahuac," a project by Rodriguez and Gonzales, newspaper columnists whose work appears in The Tribune, that has spawned one book with two more on the way.

Aztlanahuac led them to gather oral histories on migration from Native Americans throughout the Southwest. Believing that the "Laguna de Teguyo" had to be the Great Salt Lake, the San Antonio couple also traveled to Antelope Island four years ago. There, Rodriguez asked a state park ranger how many caves the island had. The ranger's reply was, of course, seven.
Blomquist, a doctoral candidate in American Frontier History whose dissertation explores Aztec origins in Utah, focuses on the Uinta Mountains. He believes that Aztecs, who would have heard ancestral stories, advised 17th-century Spanish prospectors to look for gold in northeastern Utah.

Blomquist also cites a "natural temple site" in the Uintas near Vernal. He says there is a 200-foot-high mound with footsteps carved into it and an altar-sized boulder at its base that mirrors temples he has seen in Mexico, such as Monte Alban outside of Oaxaca.

On a rock at the site are petroglyphs of a warrior and his family that Blomquist says don't resemble rock art of the Fremont people known to have inhabited Utah. And the warrior is carrying a long sword-like object that broadens to a blunt end, like a cleaver, which Blomquist likens to a Mesoamerican weapon called a macana.

Then there is Cecilio Orozco, a retired California State University at Fresno education professor who has observed that petroglyphs in Sego Canyon, about 30 miles east of Green River, correspond to the Aztec calendar's mathematical formula of five orbits of Venus for every eight Earth years. On one of the canyon's sandstone walls are two petroglyphs of knotted string, one with five strings hanging down, the other eight.

In conjunction with his mentor, Alfonso Rivas-Salmon, Orozco theorizes that southern Utah is not Aztlan but the earlier homeland of "Nahuatl," the land of "four waters," where the Colorado, Green and San Juan rivers meet to pour through the Grand Canyon (Nahuatl is also the name of the Aztecs' language.). The 1847 treaty map also points to southern Utah as the "Ancient Homeland of the Aztecs."

Along those lines, Belgian scholar Antoon Leon Vollemaere believes he has pinpointed the location of Aztlan on either Wilson or Grey Mesa, where the Colorado and San Juan meet under Lake Powell.

Researchers also cite the close connection between the languages of the Aztecs and the Ute Indians in the "Uto-Aztecan" linguistic group, as well as the coincidence that the Anasazi culture began to decline at about the same time the Aztecs' ancestors were supposed to have left Aztlan.

While the pile of evidence that the Aztecs came from somewhere in Utah may seem high, more skeptical scholars like Northern Arizona University archaeologist Kelley Hays-Gilpin put things into perspective.

Hays-Gilpin acknowledges the linguistic connection between the Aztecs and Utes as well as economic interaction between Mesoamerican and North American peoples. But she offers a twist on the overall migration scheme -- the Aztecs' ancestors may have moved north before moving south.

Hays-Gilpin believes that people speaking a proto-Uto-Aztecan language domesticated maize in central Mexico more than 5,000 years ago, and consequently spread north to an area of the American West that could have included Utah. Out of that multitude of cultures, some groups could have migrated south to northern Mexico, and some of those could have, as she says, "moved to the Valley of Mexico and subjugated some of the confused and bedraggled remnants of the latest 'regime change.' "

This concept resonates with Utah Division of Indian Affairs Director Forrest Cuch, a member of the Northern Ute Tribe, who remembers his grandmother telling him his people came from the south. Could the Utes and the Aztecs' ancestors also have lived in close contact in modern-day Utah?

"I'm open to it," Cuch says, "because so little is known about the past."

As such, it would be almost impossible to prove the historical location of Aztlan, but Roberto Rodriguez says clearing the mist surrounding the myth may not be so important anyway.

While treading the path of his Aztlanahuac project, Rodriguez began to uncover a history of mass migration akin to the one Hays-Gilpin suggests. For him and Gonzales, understanding the larger scheme of historical movement throughout North America became more vital than deconstructing one elusive origin story.

"[Finding a location] has almost become irrelevant," he says. "Now, we have a bigger understanding, that the whole continent is connected. You have all these stories of people going back and forth."

Rodriguez says all that migration is most significant for Mexican Americans, and for the thousands of people now moving from Mexico to the United States, because it affords them and subsequent generations an answer when someone says, "go back where you came from."
"I just hope kids at school some day will at least be shown these maps," he says.

University of Utah ethnic studies professor Armando Sol-rzano has tailored the Aztlan concept to fit Utah, which is experiencing its own influx of Mexican immigrants.

Sol-rzano, a native Guadalajaran, has his own reasoning as to why Utah was a point of departure for the Aztecs -- that the geographical characteristics of Salt Lake Valley resemble those of Mexico City -- but his interpretation of Aztlan is, like Rodriguez's, a broader one.

Sol-rzano tells of arriving in Utah 12 years ago and seeing the Wasatch Mountains and the Great Salt Lake. "I said, 'My God, this is Aztlan.' I felt a spiritual unity with the land, something I had never felt before outside Mexico."

He compares the concept of Aztlan as a sacred land of harmony with that of Zion in the Mormon tradition. The similarities, he says, show that both cultures are searching for a common goal. Sol-rzano calls his Utah adaptation of Aztlan "Utaztlan."

Had Sol-rzano's own migration path taken him to a different part of the United States, his concept of Aztlan likely would be different. Still, he shares his sense of the myth's importance with people of Mexican heritage all over the country.

"What is happening now is we are returning," Sol-rzano says. "This is an opportunity to rewrite history and make justice."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Utah
KEYWORDS: aztlan; history; mythic; revisionism; utah
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1 posted on 11/17/2002 4:41:56 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
Revisionist history with a pretty obvious political agenda.

Let's spread the word that Aztlan was in Guatemala.

2 posted on 11/17/2002 4:48:27 PM PST by Dog Gone
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To: blam
Modern day Mexicans are primarily the descendants of the original conquerors of the Aztecs. Odd that they are claiming the banner of the Aztecs as if they and the Aztecs are one and the same ("La Raza").
3 posted on 11/17/2002 4:50:38 PM PST by Arkinsaw
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: Dog Gone
My sister and her family live in Utah. I guess they better start packing. ( one way or the other )
6 posted on 11/17/2002 5:10:03 PM PST by Missouri
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To: Utah Girl
fyi
7 posted on 11/17/2002 5:11:20 PM PST by Free the USA
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To: blam
University of Utah ethnic studies professor Armando Sol-rzano . . . .

No axe to grind here! < /sarcasm>

8 posted on 11/17/2002 5:12:50 PM PST by Lassiter
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To: Missouri
Maybe they can go to Mexico City, since the Aztecs have no native claim to it, apparently, and are morally required to abandon it.
9 posted on 11/17/2002 5:12:50 PM PST by Dog Gone
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To: blam
As a Mexican American, Rodriguez long had pondered the historical location of Aztlan...........

What the h--- was a Mexican American in the 1700s?

10 posted on 11/17/2002 5:13:55 PM PST by breakem
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To: Arkinsaw
Exactly what I was thinking the whole time I read this artical.

Mexicans come from mexico. They are not ancient proto-ute-aztec indians. Mexicans speak a european language for chrissakes and are catholics!!!
11 posted on 11/17/2002 5:21:03 PM PST by mamelukesabre
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To: BrowningBAR
Outmanned and Outgunned yet those soldiers still KICKED ASS. I'll give the mexicans a week to takeover the Southern United States and i'm being generous.
12 posted on 11/17/2002 5:23:56 PM PST by Klunk
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To: blam
Acting upon a command from a spirit, these people left Aztlan and went south until they came upon an eagle devouring a serpent in the present-day location of Mexico City

Interesting notion - claiming that property was abandoned to prove ownership.

13 posted on 11/17/2002 5:26:23 PM PST by Mudbug
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To: Dog Gone
>Maybe they can go to Mexico City

Eye corumba !!

14 posted on 11/17/2002 5:28:57 PM PST by Missouri
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To: Dog Gone
Bump!
15 posted on 11/17/2002 5:33:06 PM PST by humblegunner
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To: drstevej; Wrigley; computerjunkie; Elsie
FYI
16 posted on 11/17/2002 5:38:06 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Mudbug
(I read this book, The Zuni Enigma, and according to Nancy, the Japanese moved in just behind the Anastasi. Expect the Japanese to show up next)

Nancy Yaw Davis

The Zuni Enigma

A Native American People's Possible Japanese Connection Did a group of thirteenth-century Japanese merge with the people, language, and religion of the Zuni tribe?

For many years, anthropologists have understood the Zuni in the American Southwest to occupy a special place in Native American culture and ethnography. Their language, religion, and blood type are startlingly different from all other tribes. Most puzzling, the Zuni appear to have much in common with the people of Japan.

In a book with groundbreaking implications, Dr. Nancy Yaw Davis examines the evidence underscoring the Zuni enigma and suggests the circumstances that may have led Japanese on a religious quest—searching for the legendary "middle world" of Buddhism—across the Pacific to the American Southwest more than seven hundred years ago. 72 b/w illustrations, 17 maps.

"A stunning and carefully supported argument that should stir useful discussion.... [An] exciting, groundbreaking work."—Booklist

Nancy Yaw Davis holds an M.A. from the University of Chicago and a Ph.D. in anthropology from the University of Washington. She lives in Anchorage, Alaska.

17 posted on 11/17/2002 5:38:54 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
An exciting, groundbreaking work

Seems like the history books when I was in school talked about a land bridge over the Bering Strait and that the American continent was originally settled by nomadic tribes from Asia. Seems like the theory said the tribes were pushed further south as subsequent waves came in and displaced them. I can't see all the hoopla, but I guess folks will rationalize their claims with anything handy.

18 posted on 11/17/2002 5:52:52 PM PST by Mudbug
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To: BrowningBAR
Here is a bit of History to reflect on...


and I'm sure that the NAACP, AL and Jessie are refelcting on Stone Mountain even as I type this
19 posted on 11/17/2002 5:53:34 PM PST by South Dakota
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To: Mudbug
"Seems like the history books when I was in school talked about a land bridge over the Bering Strait and that the American continent was originally settled by nomadic tribes from Asia. "

Me too but, that has changed a lot and gotten a lot more complicated....and I mean real complicated.

20 posted on 11/17/2002 6:00:53 PM PST by blam
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To: blam

21 posted on 11/17/2002 6:13:46 PM PST by Minutemen
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To: blam
Whoever wants it more will get it. With Americans now so PC I am betting on the Mexicans kicking our sorry asses in a few years and we will not even resist or will be forbidden from doin so by our own corrupt govt. It will actually be kind of funny seeing all the fat,PC loving stupid gringos running for their lives. Can't we all just get along!
22 posted on 11/17/2002 6:14:12 PM PST by willyone
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To: Dog Gone
>>Let's spread the word that Aztlan was in Guatemala.

I vote the Middle East. Kill two birds with one stone.
23 posted on 11/17/2002 6:16:43 PM PST by FreedomPoster
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To: blam
Bump
24 posted on 11/17/2002 6:19:20 PM PST by Fiddlstix
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To: blam
The Aztec king Motecuhzoma I was probably the first to investigate seriously the location of Aztlan. In the 1440s, he sent 60 magicians north for a journey that itself became a legend -- according to chronicler Diego Duran, these pilgrims encountered a supernatural being who transformed them into birds, and they flew to Aztlan.

Are these the fellows responsible for signs of cannabalism found at the Anasazi archaelogical site?

25 posted on 11/17/2002 6:35:51 PM PST by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin
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To: blam
The Mexicans try messing with the Mormons and they'll get their ass handed to them.
26 posted on 11/17/2002 7:12:06 PM PST by weikel
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin
"Are these the fellows responsible for signs of cannabalism found at the Anasazi archaelogical site?"

Christy Turner at Arizona State University did that work. I don't know for sure, I would say not because they are said to have come after the Anasazi. (Do a search on Christy Turner)

27 posted on 11/17/2002 7:20:25 PM PST by blam
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To: weikel
Sol-rzano tells of arriving in Utah 12 years ago and seeing the Wasatch Mountains and the Great Salt Lake. "I said, 'My God, this is Aztlan.' I felt a spiritual unity with the land, something I had never felt before outside Mexico."

Isn't this proof that Joseph Smith was a true Prophet, and the LDS is the One True Church?

28 posted on 11/17/2002 8:40:44 PM PST by Tax-chick
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To: Tax-chick
PLEASE don't turn a thread on Archaeology/Antropology into a "religious" thread. There is a special category for that, or you can go to the SmokeyRoom.

Blam spends a lot of time gathering these articles for us and has had to abandon threads in the past that got out of hand.

Thank you for your future courtesy.
29 posted on 11/17/2002 9:20:29 PM PST by JudyB1938
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To: blam
Aztecs and their descendents should be entitled to Aztlan.

Let Mexicans have Utah.

But then, we should get to have Mexico (because that's not really their homeland, only Utah is).

30 posted on 11/17/2002 9:23:11 PM PST by xm177e2
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To: blam
More left wing nonsense. I do have to say though as a resident, Utah is a very mystical place. IMO, the most beautiful place on earth.
31 posted on 11/17/2002 9:26:59 PM PST by For the Unborn
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To: blam
bump
32 posted on 11/17/2002 9:41:11 PM PST by Ditter
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To: JudyB1938
That was a joke. I should have used the sarcasm indicator, but I'm new to html. Sorry about the confusion :-).
33 posted on 11/18/2002 4:22:22 AM PST by Tax-chick
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To: Tax-chick
LOL Yeah, gotta use those sarcasm tags. However, I bet you know what I mean, the way people with an agenda will come in and sabotage threads. I ignore them all of the time, except on blam's articles. That's where I draw the line. Sorry for my density in what you said though. Have a great day.
34 posted on 11/18/2002 4:34:02 AM PST by JudyB1938
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To: JudyB1938; Wrigley; Grig; restornu; White Mountain; CubicleGuy; drstevej
PLEASE don't turn a thread on Archaeology/Antropology into a "religious" thread.
 
What?  'turn'???
 
It STARTED that way!!!
 
the mythic homeland of the Aztecs.
or the Garden of Eden,"
Western scholars, Catholic clergy,
as "place of the egrets," or "place of whiteness."   (Ask a Mormon!)
Acting upon a command from a spirit,
encountered a supernatural being
a "natural temple site"
altar-sized boulder
"[Finding a location] has almost become irrelevant," he says (Sounds like FAITH to me!)
I felt a spiritual unity with the land,

35 posted on 11/18/2002 6:30:00 AM PST by Elsie
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To: blam
an official map of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo from 1847 that identifies Utah as the homeland of the Aztecs.

I've seen 'official' old maps that indicated.......

"Beyond here lay MONSTERS!!!"

36 posted on 11/18/2002 6:32:01 AM PST by Elsie
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To: JudyB1938
Thanks for your defense Judy. I don't do religion on FR.
37 posted on 11/18/2002 6:37:56 AM PST by blam
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To: blam
the land of "four waters," where the Colorado, Green and San Juan rivers meet to pour through the Grand Canyon

UHhhh...

That's THREE, not four!


Besides, only TWO 'meet' at a time........

Perhas they want to re-think this and add the Dirty Devil, the Little Colorado, the Kanab Creek, the Bright Angel, the Paria, and numerous intermittant side streams.

38 posted on 11/18/2002 6:42:45 AM PST by Elsie
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To: blam
Kind of like Muslims aren't they? Grab a fable turn it into history and wa lah....
39 posted on 11/18/2002 6:46:47 AM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: Elsie
I've seen 'official' old maps that indicated.......

"Beyond here lay MONSTERS!!!"

Those were all of the blue areas on the map right? ;)

40 posted on 11/18/2002 6:58:33 AM PST by Axenolith
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To: Arkinsaw
Actually most Mexicans are mostly of Indian decent with some European blood. The elite are mostly European and discriminate against those who are mostly Indian. However that doesn't ligitimize taking over Utah or the South West because they came from there. That is long past and they moved to Mexico of their own chosing before white men set foot on these shores. Not that it should make any differance either.
41 posted on 11/18/2002 7:23:59 AM PST by ItsTheMediaStupid
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To: Axenolith
Yup!


Neat screen 'handle'!

(If the stone is gone, all you have LEFT is the handle: COOL!)


Here: look for yourselves...
 
 http://www.so-utah.com/green/segocny/homepage.html
 
http://indra.com/~dheyser/sego/sego.html
 
http://climb-utah.com/Moab/sego.htm
 
http://history.utah.gov/ZiNj/restorecanyon.html

42 posted on 11/18/2002 7:26:18 AM PST by Elsie
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To: JudyB1938
It seemed funny when I wrote it, but it was late and I was tired :-). I was thinking it would be nice if all of us could just claim a piece of property that gave us a "mythic feeling of being at home." I have real strong feelings about a 5000 sq.ft. house in Southern Hills ...

43 posted on 11/18/2002 7:31:39 AM PST by Tax-chick
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To: Dog Gone
***Rodriguez says all that migration is most significant for Mexican Americans, and for the thousands of people now moving from Mexico to the United States, because it affords them and subsequent generations an answer when someone says, "go back where you came from."***

Here's the agenda.

***"Some don't believe [Aztlan] was true, like Atlantis or the Garden of Eden," says Roger Blomquist, a doctoral student at the University of Nebraska at Lincoln. "But I'm convinced it's in Utah.***

Interesting. Joseph Smith was convinced the Garden of Eden was in Missouri.
44 posted on 11/18/2002 7:32:34 AM PST by drstevej
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To: drstevej
He compares the concept of Aztlan as a sacred land of harmony with that of Zion in the Mormon tradition. The similarities, he says, show that both cultures are searching for a common goal. Sol-rzano calls his Utah adaptation of Aztlan "Utaztlan."

Here's the line that made me laugh. Myth taken as truth.

45 posted on 11/18/2002 7:45:46 AM PST by Wrigley
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To: blam
Hays-Gilpin believes that people speaking a proto-Uto-Aztecan language domesticated maize in central Mexico more than 5,000 years ago, and consequently spread north to an area of the American West that could have included Utah. Out of that multitude of cultures, some groups could have migrated south to northern Mexico, and some of those could have, as she says, "moved to the Valley of Mexico and subjugated some of the confused and bedraggled remnants of the latest 'regime change.' "

Let's face it, people moved north, south, east, west, back north, turned east, yada yada yada. This is what humans have done for countless thousands of years.

If they really want to find the "homeland", they need to go back to asia.

46 posted on 11/18/2002 7:47:56 AM PST by machman
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To: blam; Wrigley
***This concept resonates with Utah Division of Indian Affairs Director Forrest Cuch, a member of the Northern Ute Tribe, who remembers his grandmother telling him his people came from the south. Could the Utes and the Aztecs' ancestors also have lived in close contact in modern-day Utah? ***

If Forrest's grandma says it happened, that settles it for me.
47 posted on 11/18/2002 7:52:13 AM PST by drstevej
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To: blam
This jerk digs up a map made by a Spaniard in the 1700's which supposedly pinpoints the location of the Aztec homeland from which they migrated sometime prior to the 1400's and accepts this as fact?????

Since the Aztecs had no historical records in the sense that we employ that term or even in the sense that people like the Ancient Egyptians or Greeks had historical records, we are supposed to belief this???

Give me a break!!

I think Aztlan is REALLY in Iraq, somewhere around Bagdad.
I found an "old map" by an American historian drafted in 2002 which proves it!!!

Should I send this dingbat a copy free of charge??
48 posted on 11/18/2002 7:57:55 AM PST by ZULU
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To: blam
This jerk digs up a map made by a Spaniard in the 1700's which supposedly pinpoints the location of the Aztec homeland from which they migrated sometime prior to the 1400's and accepts this as fact?????

Since the Aztecs had no historical records in the sense that we employ that term or even in the sense that people like the Ancient Egyptians or Greeks had historical records, we are supposed to belief this???

Give me a break!!

I think Aztlan is REALLY in Iraq, somewhere around Bagdad.
I found an "old map" by an American historian drafted in 2002 which proves it!!!

Should I send this dingbat a copy free of charge??
49 posted on 11/18/2002 7:57:57 AM PST by ZULU
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To: Arkinsaw
Modern day Mexicans are primarily the descendants of the original conquerors of the Aztecs. Odd that they are claiming the banner of the Aztecs as if they and the Aztecs are one and the same ("La Raza").

Hernando Cortez sailed from the island of Cuba to conquer Mexico in 1519 with 11 ships, 508 soldiers, and 16 horses.

Upon landing in Mexico, Cortez had a considerable amount of help in conquering the Aztec Empire from other MesoAmerican Indian tribes who were sick and tired of being dominated and oppressed by the Aztecs.

Although we of Cuban descent are honored that some may believe that 508 of our ancestors were studly enough to mate so frequently as to change the entire gene pool of a few million MesoAmericans, the fact remains that most Mexicans are Mestizo of predominantly MesoAmerican blood.

< Bravo Sierra> Of course, I, personally, with 507 others just like me, could perform such a feat, but most of my cousins can not even come close. < /Bravo Sierra>

The current Mexican demographics breakdown is:

Population: 90 million
30% indigenous (Pure Indian)
60% mestizo (Mixed)
9% white

It matters not, however, who was where before they were conquered by whoever. In History, once you are conquered, you're outta there unless you conqer it back.

50 posted on 11/18/2002 8:14:11 AM PST by Polybius
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