AZ Alert: Lawmaker: Aid to Mexican States is Cheaper Than Border Security

Santa Fe New Mexican ^ | 01/10/2003 | Associated Press

[koax]

if you wanted the perfect solution, it would be to build the prisons along the u.s.-mexican border. maximum security on the north side, and minimum on the south. so, if anyone escaped it would be into mexico! </s>

[koax]

and you'd have a wall against immigration too!

[Walkingfeather]

maybe if amnesty included mandatory military service minimum 3 year hitch, fluency in english and a 25 % tax on all money sent south of the boarder....to start....

[txdoda]

good post (again)

Since LA has laws against LEO's "asking" about imm. status,
why can't they ask for SS registration cards ?? Seems I read
LA (our murder capitol now) believes 60% of their gang members are illegals.

I wonder if any fed. agency is enforcing SS reg. against
imm., legal and illegal. If my soon to-be 18 yr. old can
get jail time for not reg., why not some illegal running
the streets ???

Maybe Sel. Ser.'puters don't "talk" to any other gov. 'puters ???

[txdoda]

excellent idea's......

[Reaganwuzthebest]

Anything that shames or scares employers into not hiring illegals is a good idea. Since the INS won't enforce employer sanctions, looks like the people will have to do that too for them.

[ATOMIC_PUNK]

Mexico Ends Practice of Giving Land to Poor
By CHRIS KRAUL TIMES STAFF WRITER

MEXICO CITY -- President Vicente Fox's administration has declared an end to the 85-year-old practice of making land grants to the poor, a program that embodied the spirit of the Mexican Revolution but was rife with corruption and property disputes.

The agrarian reform movement, which had faded in recent decades, transferred more than half of Mexico's arable land to the indigenous and poor, most of them organized into communal groups called ejidos. About 30,000 such communal groups exist today, and there is little unoccupied land left to redistribute.

The move comes at a time when Mexican agriculture is in crisis, hampered by urban migration, foreign competition resulting from free-trade agreements and low productivity caused by laws that restrict individual farm sizes to 256 acres, too small for the economies of scale enjoyed by international giants. Agrarian Reform Secretary Maria Teresa Herrera Tello said Monday that redistribution of land had failed to solve rural poverty and that the government must redirect efforts into making farming more productive.

Mexico Ends Practice of Giving Land to Poor

Mexico bypassing U.S. sovereignty?

Fox calls for migration agreement with U.S.

[Ajnin]

We can definitely seal the border. Depending on the terrain I can seal 2-5 miles of border by myself. I do it almost every day. With the technology we have available such as RVS cameras and sensors sealing the entire southern border could be definitely be done. Getting rid of all or most of the illegals in this country can also be done. If we can send a man to the moon we can do something that is infinitely easier to do such as rounding up all the illegals. The Border Patrol started doing a great job during the LA riots. And as usual during that time, when you were too effective at catching illegal aliens you were told to stop.

[Dr Warmoose]

Re:Selective Service Online

This applies to citizens, not to guest workers, H1s, resident aliens, et al.

Given the limited scope of such a query, it seems to act more as a "Yes, you are legal" rather than a "No, you are illegal." I am puzzled by those who demand 100% out of a dragnet, somehow implying that in absence of a perfect plan that nothing should be done. If only the IRS would abandon all plans to collect taxes when it becomes apparent that their present procedures do not ensure 100% compliance.

[discostu]

I think one of the biggest problems with how America handles aid is that we just fork over the money and don't do any kind of supervision. When the fed gives money to the states they supervise how it's spent and monitor results. No reason we can't do the exact same thing with foreign governments. Notice the proposal these guys have outlined has very specific goals for the money including limited regions for the improvement. That's how ALL aid should be handled, focused and monitored... and hopefully cut off when the mission is accomplished buy you know how government projects are.

[JackelopeBreeder]

Not one red cent from our government. Paco & Jose, Maria & Lupe will never see any of it. All it will do is end up in some corrupt bastard's pocket.

We have a small mall in Sierra Vista -- and I do mean small. But Mexicans flock there for shopping. Legal Mexicans from the towns in Sonora.

As they exit the mall heading for the parking lot, all purchases are unwrapped and carefully stashed in the car. I finally had to ask why.

It seems that they get shook down by Mexican customs and police as soon as they get back into Mexico. That's how deeply embedded the corruption is.

[discostu]

Here's the basic problems:
A - much of the terrain sucks; rough, nasty, hot, poison animals, and suprisingly low visibility (creosote bushes which are the most common flora around these parts seem to be designed by God to hide stuff, they grow about 7 feet tall and 8 feet around, are nearly impossible to see through and like to grow in lose clusters you can walk through if you don't mind a couple of scrapes), canyons, rivers, mountains, the tail end of Death Valley
B - man power, to man a station 24/7 and be able to deal with sick time and vacation and such takes 5 people (business 101), so even assuming 1 person can seal 2 miles of border (which I seriously doubt, but I'll give it to you because I'm a nice person), the border is about 2000 miles long, that's 1000 stations, 5000 men... then you've got support personel, you can't just have 5000 people strewn across the border, they're gonna need some place to stay, something to eat, and somebody to man their station when they're hauling bad guys in (business 101 doesn't contemplate having to leave a station during the accomplishment of duties)
C - sensoring equipment is nice, but it's only as good as your area of coverage and your distance of response, if the bad guys leave the coverage area before somebody shows up to aprehend them all the equipment accomplished was to get a headcount
D - getting a man on the moon is a hell of a lot easier than figuring who of the 280+ million people in this country are here legally, America is still big into freedom, if we had "papers" we showed all the time like the USSR it would be easy, but we don't, now it's hard; add to that the fact that we don't actually know how many illegals are in the country much less who the are or where they might be in this rather large country (2000 miles of border with Mexico, about the same for our north south distance, about twice as much for the Canadian border, multiply which ever of those numbers you need to get the area... it equals a hell of a lot of square miles), contrary to popular opinion they aren't all clustered on the southern border, Chicago has one of the largest Mexican populations in the country I'm betting not all of them are legal
F - I'll agree fully that we hinder the Border Patrol and they SHOULD be allowed to do a better job, but that better job cannot result in a sealed border, just ain't gonna happen

Night all.
E - I haven't heard of the Border Patrol doing anything during the LA riots, given that the problem was balck people and LA isn't on a border doesn't seem to be a lot of reason to bring them in

[JackelopeBreeder]

Roger that, Ajnin.

If our government had any cojones, we could seal off Cochise County in a matter of hours.

Fort Huachuca is only 8 miles north of the border. It is the home of the Army Intelligence School. The border could be turned into a giant live environment tactical exercise in minutes.

First, launch the unmanned aerial vehicles. Let them use video during the day and infrared at night. Have the signals intelligence guys take their communications nets apart, then jam them at will. Give the analysts free rein to map the battlefield down to the last shrubbery. Set up dedicated comms to the Border Patrol and the illegals would be walking out of the brush and directly on to the buses back to Mexico. Let the interrogators sort out nationalities and flag those in need of further scrutiny.

[boris]

"Here's the basic problems: A - much of the terrain sucks; rough, nasty, hot, poison animals, and suprisingly low visibility (creosote bushes which are the most common flora around these parts seem to be designed by God to hide stuff, they grow about 7 feet tall and 8 feet around, are nearly impossible to see through and like to grow in lose clusters you can walk through if you don't mind a couple of scrapes), canyons, rivers, mountains, the tail end of Death Valley"

And blah, blah, blah.

Some idle and obvious potential measures:

• How about a one-mile strip strewn with land mines along the entire length of the border?

• How about using the National Guard to aid the INS in rounding up illegals? I propose tattooing the INS logo on the left buttock of every single illegal detained. "Amigo, we find you back here with this tattoo, we execute you." And do it a few times, on TV, and make sure the media in Mexico get tapes.

We are being invaded, taken over, and the conversion of the American Southwest into Atzlan (which I have no doubt you'd support and enjoy living in) proceeds apace.

We are at war, and wartime measures are called for.

--Boris

[madfly]

Re:Selective Service Online

This applies to citizens, not to guest workers, H1s, resident aliens, et al.

Illegal aliens and almost all other male non-citizens ARE required to register for the Selective Service. I did not reference this in my original post, sorry.

http://www.sss.gov/FSwho.htm

NON-CITIZENS
Some non-citizens are required to register. Others are not. Noncitizens who are not required to register with Selective Service include men who are in the U.S. on student or visitor visas, and men who are part of a diplomatic or trade mission and their families. Almost all other male noncitizens are required to register, including ILLEGAL ALIENS, legal permanent residents, and refugees. The general rule is that if a male noncitizen takes up residency in the U.S. before his 26th birthday, he must register with Selective Service. For a more detailed list of which non-citizens must register, see Who Must Register - Chart .

http://www.fbi.gov/contactus.htm

The FBI can be contacted twenty-four hours a day, every day. Check out the Field Office Contact Information page for the addresses and phone numbers of the closest FBI office to your locale--as well as links to their web sites. If you are outside the United States and need to reach the FBI, you can call the nearest U.S. Embassy or Consulate office. To reach the FBI's Headquarters in Washington, D.C., call 202-324-3000 or write to the following address:

Federal Bureau of Investigation
J. Edgar Hoover Building
935 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Washington, D.C. 20535-0001

The FBI encourages the public to report any suspected violations of U.S. federal law. You can do so by calling your local FBI office, Legal Attache office, or by submitting a tip via the FBI Tips and Public Leads form.

[Tripleplay]

I reserve the right to get snippy when people put words in my mouth. That's not differing opinions, that's deliberate misrepresentation of what I said. And I'll go well past snippy into down right pissed off when people start lieing about what I said.

Deliberate misrepresentation?

Lying?

Could you be more specific about your accusations?

[discostu]

Land mines, cute note very effective, kind of hard on legal travel between the two nations.

The problem with rounding up the illegals isn't a lack of firepower, it's a lack of knowledge combined with a lot of freedom.

We aren't being invaded, the American southwest is NOT being turned into anything, I do live here, that's how I know that paranoid racist crap is just that- CRAP.

[discostu]

I did answer your question. Look the question at hand is what do WE want to do to solve the problem. If WE are going to fix it then what WE have to do is make Mexico a place worth staying in. If WE don't want to solve the immigration problem then what WE should do is nothing. That's the framing of the debate, what should WE do, I gave an answer. Just because you don't like the framing of the debate doesn't make my answer wrong, it means you want a totally different debate.

No my original post STANDS AS WRITTEN. Why did massive emigration from Ireland stop? Because Ireland got it together and stopped being a crappy place to live. Why did massive emigration from Italy stop? Because Italy got it together and stopped being a crapy place to live. Why did massive emmigration from Sicily stop? Because Sicily got it together and stopped being a crappy place to live. Nothing about America changed to make it less desirable to live in (actually from the perspective of immigrants it probably changed for the better since we started adding social services), the places people were leaving in droves changed. That's how it stops.

Now either we can try to help Mexico or we can ignore it. But if we think massive immigration is a problem for America then the best solution available to us is to make Mexico a place worth staying in. If we don't want to help Mexico be a place worth staying in then we might as well stop bitching about the immigration problem because none of the other "answers" being presented will be effective.