Are there any differences between Conservatives and Libertarians?

1/12/03 | Sparta

[Sparta]

I've been reading posts by people who use the term Conservative and others who use the term Libertarian. I have a question for all FReepers, is there a difference between the two?

[nopardons]

Yes, it certainly did. Thanks for reminding those who forgot about that or didn't know .

I was focusing in on the patent medicine side, because I brought up the PURE FOOD & DRUG ACTS. But, yes, doctors and the general public, who bought heroin, morphine, and opiates over the counter, addicted many poor souls, who thought that they were " curing " something or other.They weren't " cured " ; however, they certainly did become addicts, or killed themselves or others.

[Texasforever]

The "morphine" solders that came mostly out of the south constituted approx 20% of the southern civil war vets. They even carried their "kits" in a bag, the name of which escapes me but, it was a very serious problem.

[Texasforever]

I have to correct one point. It was the Union soldiers that were mostly affected. The South could not afford the use of morphine except for amputations.

[Mr. Mojo]

By far the biggest problem with the Libertarian Party is the name itself. 'Libertarian' sounds like a combo between 'liberal' and "librarian." Was it Murray Rothbard who coined the term? Whoever it was, the name sucks. Ayn Rand recognized this PR problem from the outset (in the early 70's), but never offered a superior alternative. (Rand wasn't a purist libertarian anyway). 'Constitution Party' is a lot better, but already taken. Labels/names are very powerful, and bad ones keep many people from investigating any further.

[Jeff Head]

My opinion?

.... someone's got a lot of people focusing more on labels and individual interpretation of those labels when we should be focusing on being Americans dedicated to the Constitution.

In that regard, we should follow the advise of those who created this nation and the constitution regarding what those things mean:

"On every question of construction, let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed." Thomas Jefferson, 1823

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other." John Adams, Oct. 11, 1798

"A general dissolution of the principles and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy.... While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but once they lose their virtue, they will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader.... If virtue and knowledge are diffused among the people, they will never be enslaved. This will be their great security." Samuel Adams

"Bad men cannot make good citizens. It is when a people forget God that tyrants forge their chains. A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, is incompatible with freedom. No free government, or the blessings of liberty, can be preserved to any people but by a firm adherence to justice, moderation, temperance, frugality, and virtue; and by a frequent recurrence to fundamental principles." Patrick Henry

"To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them" George Mason, 1788

"That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms..." Samuel Adams, 1788

In my estimation, anyone who loves this country and what it stands for will naturally focus on those things, because that is what the individuals who were inspired to form this nation used to make it what it is. We will not succeed unless we use the same formula.

[AFPhys]

The war on drugs is related to power and not to drugs.It is a way of levying additional taxes through seizure of property.

There has been a whole lot of insane drivel on this thread, but this comment wins the prize.

[AFPhys]

That's an extraordinarily good and thoughtful response. Too bad it's unworthy of most of the mudfighting that goes on during threads like this

DITTO

[Leisler]

"On the open market" And what would that be? You don't think that drug, legal drugs, are an open market? Is there some type of cartel, monopoly, trading bloc? And anyways OH Blind One, weren't we discussing Conservative love of big, intrusive government, and the nuances of the definitions of "legal", "illegal, de-legalize and legalization?"

We weren't talking Adam Smith and political economy. Lastly, someone was kind enough to post the actual Pure Food and Drugs Act. Drugs, even Mothers Little Baby Sleeper Dr. Opium wasn't made illegal. The act was just a labeling of ingredients act. It was a consumer information act. Also it was at the time of socialist, anarchists and progressives and pre-Communist. Nice, but unsurprising, that you look to them for arguments.

You talk, walk and act like a socialist, and one is what one does, protestations not withstanding.

[NMC EXP]

Are there any differences between Conservatives and Libertarians?

The definitions of labels are transient and subjective. Taken to the lowest level there is a fundamental difference between conservatives and libertarians as you will see from the responses on this thread.

The democrat leadership and therefore it's followers the liberals have an objective. That is socialism.

The republican leadership and therefore it's followers the conservatives have an objective. That objective is to be elected.

Libertarians adhere to a philosophy by which they guide their own actions and judge the actions of others. This results in consistency.

Liberals and conservatives do not have a core philosophy and establish opinions on individual topics in a vacuum on a case by case basis. Opinions established this way are often inconsistent with each other.

I consider myself to be a Constitutionist. That document is the standard by which I judge the political policies of liberals and conservatives. Philosophically the Constitution is strongly libertarian with it's emphasis on individual rights.

I have a lot more in common with libertarians than I have with many of the self described conservatives on this forum.

Regards

J.R.

[Voice in your head]

"I've been reading posts by people who use the term Conservative and others who use the term Libertarian. I have a question for all FReepers, is there a difference between the two?"

Yes, there is a difference. The term "Libertarian" refers to a member of the Libertarian Partz. The term "libertarian" refers to a person whose ideology is best characterized as favoring a circumstance that best favors absolute liberty. Conservative is some other ideology that shares some things in common with each, but not everything.

Personally, I think that people get too worked up about applying these vague labels. As one can see from reading through this thread, there is widespread disagreement about what the labels mean. Some people view the different labels as good, bad, evil, confused, et cetera. Most people are more concerned with bashing others, than in actually discovering truth. One of the ways that people bash others is to apply a negative label to them. People often come to the conclusion that applying a negative connotation to the other person's self-description is the most effective means to this end. When this is done "successfully" a sufficient number of times, the label is overused, perverted, and loses its meaning. As is the case in most any subject, many people who resort to using the label of a different ideology/party/group/etc as some kind of a personal attack are often ignorant of what that label means - often because the label has lost its meaning through overuse.

As evidence of this, go view any thread about the Libertarian Party, about evolution vs. creation, about Islam vs. Christianity, or read in a newspaper a debate about gun control or abortion. It is similar to the hijacking that our language is undergoing, with such words as "inclusive" "tolerance" "niggardly" et cetera.

[Sparta]

Excellent response thank you.

[Cultural Jihad]

How dishonest and slanderous as usual CJ.

Who'da thunk your actual name was 'Mr. Flakey Ideologue'?! Honestly, it was entirely a coinkidink!

[MattinNJ]

LOL-You couldn't resist stirring the pot this morning, could you?

IMHO, libertarians are right in theory but the best form of government that exists in practice are the ones advocated by conservatives.

I believe Drew Carey summed up the libertarian point of view perfectly when he said (and I paraphrase) "Hey buddy, I don't care if you drop dead from smoking crack as long as I don't have to pay for it."

I agree with him in principle. I could not care less what someone else does. It's their business-I only grow concerned when the government reaches their hands into my pockets and takes food off my family's table or if my loved ones are endangered. Most crackheads can barely stand up and pose no risk. The problem is that you can't have streets full of crackheads like we had in NYC before Guiliani took over. One year later 99% of them were gone and NYC truly became a great place to work and play.

[Protagoras]

You are, like most Democrats, a tad confused. I don't have a manifesto. You may be referring to a political document. It has nothing whatever to do with me.

But the communist manifesto bears striking resembalance to the philosophy of your party. Read it sometime so you know what your comrades really stand for.

[Cultural Jihad]

"Hey buddy, I don't care if you drop dead from smoking crack as long as I don't have to pay for it."

When we allow moral-liberal Hollywood to define our culture, so much for the inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

[steve-b]

Libertarians believe that social institutions are capable of operating without government guidance; conservatives don't. Simple.

[MattinNJ]

When we allow moral-liberal Hollywood to define our culture, so much for the inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Carey is a loud and proud conservative w/ libertarian leanings.

[Roscoe]

Anarchists, in other words.

[Roscoe]

L.P. Brown Shirts?

Brown polyester?

[robertpaulsen]

And I'm not in favor of twisting the heads off cute little kittens, but I think it should be legal.

See how silly it sounds?