ISLAM IN AMERICA - THE ISLAMIC SUPREME COUNCIL OF AMERICA LIVE ON RADIO FR THIS WEEK!

Radio FreeRepublic and the Free Republic Network ^ | 1/14/03 | Luis Gonzalez

[TLBSHOW]

Pipes will wake up to the full truth too. There is but one God and As your guest tried to sell us that Allah is the same God from the Bible well that was a lie!

[cake_crumb]

"How can you discern that just by looking at someone?"

I didn't say that right. In most cases, we can't and that worries me. Some are so creepy they usually set off security flags somewhere; usually El Al, whom we need to hire to train our own airport security after we fire the federalized ones if we can.

What also worries me are terrorists originally from one country (usually a terrorist infested one) who gains citizenship in another country such as Britain, France or Germany, then comes into the US because we have open immigration from Britain, France and Germany, but have - at last - begun restricting immigration from terrorist supporting countries (and fingerprinting, and photoing).

Add to that ridiculous INS decisions which don't even follow their own rules (and the INS is going to take YEARS to start straigtening out) and airport security guards that strip search 70 year old congressmen and swipe GI Joe toys from children and we have a recipe for dismal failure.

We've got a pretty good start on security in this country, but it is going to take years before we get the kinks worked out. Because of these obstacles, I see nothing wrong with deporting illegals (that we find, and I know it ain't easy to find somebody who doesn't want to be found in a country this big) and at least putting set, numerical limits on the number of immigrants we allow entry to? That won't solve the problem, but it might make the going smoother until we work the kinks out of policy.

[F16Fighter]

"Stopping travel as you suggest will crash the US economy in a mater of months."

An arguable point.

Perhaps this kind of "breather" will give the world economic markets some stability, while no doubt making America safer.

Economically, we're heading for some dicey times anyway...

[Angelus Errare]

Daniel Pipes also wrote (since you quote him as an authority):

"Of course, that leaves 20 percent of the institutions and many individual Muslims who reject the idea of turning the United States into a Muslim country. Turks and those who flee militant Islamic states like Iran and Sudan usually want nothing to do with Islamic politics, nor do Sufis. Kabbani himself, for example, repudiates the application of Islamic law in the United States, saying that 'America was founded on the principle of a separation between church and state. Therefore, I presume it is not legally possible by virtue of the Constitution of this country.'"

- Militant Islam Reaches America, p. 123

"In fact, Kabbani - who wears a flowing robe and has a full beard and is a patriotic citizen - was driving home from a private prayer session with the president of the United States."

- Militant Islam Reaches America, p. 150

"One of the few nonmilitant Islamic leaders in this country, Muhammad Hisham Kabbani, chairman of the Islamic Supreme Council of America, told the Department of State's Open Forum in early 199 that extremism has 'spread to 80 per cent of the Muslim population' in the United States. As though to confirm his point, the Muslims response to his warning was heavy-handed and even threatening."

- Militant Islam Reaches America, p. 207

So tell me Tod, is Pipes wrong here about Kabbani and his organization? Or is Pipes restrained by PC? Here again, every reputable source you want to consult say that Kabbani and the ISCA are not terrorists, terrorist sympathizers, do not want the sha'riah in the US, ad infinitum. Unless you're postulating that there is some mass conspiracy out there to hide the true intentions of the ISCA (maybe it's the same evil people who forced Trent Lott out as part of an elaborate plan to stop a partial birth abortion ban from being passed), I would suggest that you either put up evidence to indicate where the ISCA supports violence, terrorism, ect. or cease with your claims. The amount of hatred you display towards these people is second only to the warm feelings CAIR holds for them.

Never thought I'd see you and CAIR agreeing on anything.

[cake_crumb]

"Thanks, I got it now"

LOL...you DO realize you're talking to one of the world's worst typists? (darned keyboard...I type it right and it prints wrong on the screen!)

[F16Fighter]

"There is but one God and As your guest tried to sell us that Allah is the same God from the Bible well that was a lie!"

I hear ya, but right here in the good ol' USA, some "real" 'Americans' I know swear that the bug, the flower, or the rock is "God" as well...

Oh, the beauty of "diversity"...

[Luis Gonzalez]

Go check out my ant problem.

[Angelus Errare]

"Remember elementary school? In a class of 20, the 2 troublemakers were sufficiently diluted. If the number of troublemakers were 4 or 5, the entire class would be disrupted.

"Even if the number of 'moderate' Islam is 70% or even 80%, the impact and numers of the remaining 'troublemakers' is catastrophic."

Exactly!

And what was the proper way to deal with those troublemakers?

You put them down until they learned how to deal with the other children. This is a lesson that Wahhabism is going to have to learn before the War on Terror is over, IMO. When they can interact peacefully with other religions, then they can come out of their sandbox. Till then, it's "time out" for the mad mullahs.

Same situation we had with Japan about 50 years ago. A bunch of Shinto nuts decided that they had a right to large chunks of Southeast Asia. We killed them and after a brief time out period (the US occupation of Japan), the Shintoists decided that killing the unbelievers wasn't the way to go anymore.

I see no reason to believe that you'll need to be anymore worried about Muslim suicide bombers in 50 years than we are about Japanese kamikaze pilots today.

[Luis Gonzalez]

"Remember elementary school? In a class of 20, the 2 troublemakers were sufficiently diluted. If the number of troublemakers were 4 or 5, the entire class would be disrupted."

But the answer was never beating all 20 students to control the 4 or 5.

The solution was always directing your undivided attention at the problematic student.

[F16Fighter]

"And what was the proper way to deal with those troublemakers?"

Wasn't it to expel them into oblivion? ;-)

"Same situation we had with Japan about 50 years ago. A bunch of Shinto nuts decided that they had a right to large chunks of Southeast Asia."

I wish it were the same....

Those "Shinto nuts" hadn't infested America had they? They hadn't a huge foothold in Europe either as Islam does. Your analogy appears to come up a bit short...

Radical Islam has declared war upon America and the West, and it's financial and stealth tenticles are extremely far reaching AND more than capable of catastrophic worldwide distruption.

Houston we DO have a problem...

[Stingray]

"...the worst picture is the cross with the cresent moon ."

"What fellowship hath light with darkness?"

[F16Fighter]

"But the answer was never beating all 20 students to control the 4 or 5."

No, but often the entire class was and taken to task and punished -- whether fair or not.

[Angelus Errare]

"Wasn't it to expel them into oblivion?"

That works too :)

"Those 'Shinto nuts' hadn't infested America had they? They hadn't a huge foothold in Europe either as Islam does. Your analogy appears to come up a bit short..."

No, but the Japanese had been making signifigant inroads into China, Indochina, Thailand, Burma, and Indonesia with Pan-Asian and anti-colonial rhetoric in addition to their Shinto concept of manifest destiny. There are differences in the nature of the conflict, but the ultimate way to solve it remains the same: kill the bad guys.

And if not for Saudi money these guys, like Hoffman said, would be reduced to being bandits in their own sandbox. We need to cut off terrorist funding to make sure that our enemies can't regenerate themselves.

"Radical Islam has declared war upon America and the West, and it's financial and stealth tenticles are extremely far reaching AND more than capable of catastrophic worldwide distruption."

I agree. And it is precisely because of the nature of the threat that we need to coordinate attacks against our enemies on a global level. It's not like this just America's problem, these guys are playing for keeps when it comes to all of their rhetoric about global domination.

That's why we need to care a lot more about what the Russians, Algerians, Turks, Armenians, Ethiopians, Israelis, Uzbeks, Filippinos, et al. say about the nature of the threat than we do all of these damned European leftists. Everyone of those countries has thousands of men out in the trenches right now fighting and dying in the war against these fanatics, just like us. And thousands of the people fighting Muslims right now are other Muslims who recognize that they're going to be the first ones on the chopping block if these nutcases get power. All I'm saying is that we should recognize our allies and help them out instead of either saying that we should wipe out Islam altogether (and I apologize for misreading your earlier comment on that, BTW) or that we should adopt the leftist Stockholm Syndrome approach to it.

Both options strike me as akin to peeing in the wind as far as winning this war goes.

[cake_crumb]

Thanks for the link. You are SOOO right about the need to curtail Welfare and limiting services to illegal immigrants to include only emergency shelter, emergency medical and transportation to the border.

It drives me NUTS that, even if the federal government were to get this tough on immigration, individual states still hand out "sugar" to illegals, like free medical care, free housing and whatnot. There's a bill in VA that would allow ILLEGALS to pay in-state tuition rates if they attend the University of Virginia. ILLEGALS!! They shouldn't BE here, let alone being given TUITION CUTS!!

You're plan is good, but ALL the states have to get in on it.

[cake_crumb]

Good night all...or rather good morning...I need to toddle off to bed.

[F16Fighter]

"All I'm saying is that we should recognize our allies and help them out instead of either saying that we should wipe out Islam altogether (and I apologize for misreading your earlier comment on that, BTW) or that we should adopt the leftist Stockholm Syndrome approach to it."

It depends on what kind of "help" we're talkin' about. Usually "help" has a few dollar $ign$ attached, doesn't it?

If we need to discuss with other nations a consolidated strategic effort to suppress Radical Islamic influence and "setting up shop," across planet earth it's worth more than a shot.

" Both options strike me as akin to peeing in the wind as far as winning this war goes."

LOL -- make that a hurricane.

BTW, no problemo with the misread...Thanks for the dialogue -- time to catch some shut eye...

[TLBSHOW]

"What fellowship hath light with darkness?"


Like apples and oranges! Good to read a post with truth!

[Angelus Errare]

"It depends on what kind of 'help' we're talkin' about. Usually 'help' has a few dollar $ign$ attached, doesn't it?"

Sometimes. Other times it's more of a quid pro quo in terms of us sending people over to train their troops or giving them access to military technology they might otherwise have a tough time developing on their own.

As far as foreign aid goes, I'd much rather my tax money go towards something that directly benefits me (killing these barbarians) as opposed to a Democratic social program. I'd happily jettison the largely ineffectual "tolerance workshops" now in existence in our schools and pump the cash into money for Algerian troops to better train or arm themselves so that they can get rid of the GIA or GSPC.

"If we need to discuss with other nations a consolidated strategic effort to suppress Radical Islamic influence and 'setting up shop,' across planet earth it's worth more than a shot."

Yep. Like I said on Radio FR tonight, the Wahhabi internationale uses the carrot and stick method to get what it wants. NGOs, "charities," and other Wahhabi mi$$ionary programs are the carrots and al-Qaeda and its ilk are the stick.

We need to eliminate both to win this war. And to do that, we're going to have to deal with our "friends" the Saudis sooner on later. Per Rohan Gunaratna and other terrorism experts, around $1,000,000 a week in Saudi cash goes straight into the pockets of bin Laden's storm troopers.

Get some sleep and I look forward to continuing this discussion.

[sarasmom]

You just have to be on the side of the "underdog", the mythical people who really, truly have good intentions, but are somehow constrained by the evil and powerfull others,(non-minority) from evincing positive action.

If only they were allowed all power, all would be well!After all, the only legitimate position is the "other".

Luis, you not only prove your irrational bias for a minority, you think celebrating that same irrational bias is laudable.

Conflict is not a state of life to strive towards.Reality is not always influenced by naieve idiots.

In the religious battle of the bands, Christianity has the lead.I have three separate churches praying for my individual salvation,but none of them would dream of attempting to forcibly convert me,and all of them would rise up in righteous rage if anyone killed me because I did not believe as they do.

I am less familiar with Jewish ideology, but what little I do know, leads me to understand that they do not seek nor would they celebrate my death for my non-belief.

Even the much reviled Pagans would not celebrate the loss of my eternal soul, for my unbelief.

Only Islamic cults believe my unbelief is tatamount to amnesty for murderous intent and action on my physical damnation.

Are you a lawyer?

I know of no one who would celebrate my death for my unbelief, except Islam.

Why would any sentient human pretend to defend them?

[William Terrell]

How many times have you read the Qur'an? You haven't? That means that you are drawing your conclusions from parsed bits of the book, and are in fact facilitating the spread of the extremist interpretation of the book.

I haven't read the book. I have seen plenty of passages from it that I bothered to verify came from it. They don't look too good.

The Bible instructs Christians to put down the sword, and that we shall not kill...yet Christians in the military do. These Muslims are members of our Armed Forces, they are sworn to follow orders, and defend the country. Furthermore, how do you know that ANYONE will actually pull a trigger during a firefight?

The Bible has no instructions about fighting against those of one's own faith. The Koran does. It's a well known fact that only part of a force actually fires their weapon in a firefight.

But that wasn't what I was talking about. Islamists just being present with infidels on an assault on other Islamists is against the strictures of that religion. And not using any "extremist" interpretation, either. The passages of the Koran I've seen are very clear about that. I'm sure you have seen the same ones.

One of the bloodiest struggles going on in Africa right now is in Algeria (a largely Muslim country), where the military has fought a war precisely to prevent the Sha'riah from being implemented. How can this be if the Qur'an tells them to do so? The targets of Islamic violence in Egypt, Indonesia, Bangladesh, Algeria, and other nations are their fellow Muslim, many of whom are fighting back even as we speak.

Maybe I should have been more clear. In my case in point, Islamists will be fighting against other Islamists on the side of the infidel. Of course Islamists have fought each other for centuries. But not on the side of, and for the purposes of those they consider infidels.

I am not saying that the enemy isn't Islamic, I am saying that all Muslims are not the enemy.

I'm not saying that the Muslim people are the enemy, either. I think people are never the enemy. The ideas in people's heads are the enemy.