Only when you can tell the innocent from the guilty. 
Posted on 01/13/2003 10:18:42 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez
Only when you can tell the innocent from the guilty.
Before you can even start evaluating issues of guilt and innocence you have to be able to tell the innocent from the guilty. With Islam especially, that's a problem, in my opinion.
The same way you tell a Communist from India apart from one who is not?:^)
Cordially
The error in that statement is that the minority are the evil and powerful, the vast majority of Muslims are basically ordinary people just trying to make their way through life.
What's truly irrational is to paint over a billion people with the brush handed to you by extremists such as bin Laden. You would certainly cry foul if someone were to ever judge all Christians based on the beliefs and actions of Matt Hale's Church of the Creator. Even better, I'm certain that if a Muslim called Christianity a barbaric religion of baby killers whose clergy rapes little boys, you would protest at the unfair generalization of billions of Christians, based on the actions of abortionists, and pedophiles. Yet you have no problem judging all Muslims in the world by the actions of Wahabbi extremists.
The rest of your post is a crude generalization of what most people believe Islam stands for. Let it suffice to say that when challenged last night, no one could come up with the infamous passage of the Qu'ran that allows Muslims to lie to "infidels".
This is not a war of religions, that's what bin Laden and his ilk are trying to start, and by buying into the generalizations that fly around this forum, you are carrying water for the man who has orchestrated the murder of thousands of Americans, including Muslims.
Islamic
Spin it in any way you choose.Call it a war declared by extremist Islamics, a war of ideology, a war of cultures.
Define it down to any level that makes you "feel" comfortable.It still will not change the nature of this war.It is a religious war.An organised religion has openly declared war on this country.That same group has been attacking us for decades, and on 9/11/2001, they openly attacked this nation in such a vile manner that the government of the USA could no longer ignore them or continue to pretend our enemy is an isolated group of crazed criminals.
You attempt to define the fractured sects of all other spiritual belief systems present in the world as theologically equivelant to Islam.
I am not a fan of any organised religion.I do not believe Islam is a "religion" as the term is understood in western society.
Islam is not a spiritual belief system, but more a designation of ideology, in the same way as democracy, socialism, communism etc are defined.
To say most Muslims are not extremists equate to saying some nations are only a little bit communist.
Who is actually carrying Bin Ladens water Luis?
You are.
People like Usama bin Laden WANT a war of religions, so they murder. Then they disguise their power struggle under a thin cloak of religion to fool the less enlightened.
You believe that a war between religions has been called by a non-religious leader.
A bucket in each hand, you're marching off humming "Onward Christian Soldiers."
"In the last century, America was threatened by a global communist revolution. Avoiding all-out war, we outlasted it. And we can outlast this Islamist revolution. What we must avoid is a war of faiths, a war of civilizations between Islam and America. And those who propagandize for such a war are the unwitting or willful collaborators of Osama bin Laden."---Pat Buchanan
"You know that if a Muslim were interviewing a Christian, and they had facts that Jesus Christ would have done what the false prophet Muhammed did, they would ask you the question, wanting to know if you thought a God-sent person would carnally "know" a little girl of nine years of age."
We are at war seeking to destroy tye people who killed our citizens, and destroyed our buildings.
What does your question have to do with that?
The war was declared by radical Islam against all of the rest of humanity and modern civilization that is not Islam.Unlike many powerfull and diplomatic spinmasters, I find myself unable to forget that rather unescapable fact.
Continue to tell yourself and any who will listen to you that the enemy we fight is not who they think they are.Tell Islam it is a religion of peace while they actively seek the destruction of the world.
Perhaps your odd conception of logic, if repeated often enough, will change physical reality.You may be able to convince them that they are not at war with us.I doubt it is possible, but you are free to keep trying.
Exactly my point all along.
Radical Islam is a minority, otherwise it would be called mainstream Islam.
And mainstream Islam is not heeding the call to Jihad.
Your point initially seemed to be that this is not a religious war. Now you seem to acknowledge it is, but only a particular faction of the religion is involved, so far.
Luis, I get so confused trying to follow your points.
Respectfully, we must agree to disagree on this particular subject, as I see no common ground.
So, you yourself admit their is a difference between radical Islam and moderate, non-psychotic Islam?
In Islam, a religious war has to be called by a significant cleric, the sort of religious war that would involve all Muslims against Christianity can be called only by a very few people in the world, and they have refused steadfastedly to do so.
Example, when the US and allies retaliated against Saddam Hussein during Desert Storm, he requested that a Jihad be called by those high-ranking Muslim clerics, they turned him down.
Usama bin Laden isn't a cleric, and as much as he would like to call for a Jihad against America, he can't. What's left to him is attacking US interests and citizens by means of terrorist tactics, something completely forbidden by the Qu'ran, which clearly states that killing non-combatants is haram (forbidden). Usama tried to justify his actions on 9/11 by claiming that the industrialist complex in America was "attacking" Muslims worldwide.
So, you can make this a war of religions if you would like, but it isn't.
I saw an intersting billboard driving down the highway last week, it said:
War? In My name?
No.
Not now, not ever.
God
There was one on September 10th 2001. Here's what happened:
The nerve! It would be like challenging Nazis on their anti-Jewish progroms. Imagine such arrogance. ;0
And you accused someone else of being childish with their ad hominums on this same thread. What a laugh. BTW, when and what made you decide to sell out? For the record, I respect you no longer.
Our policy of non discrimination of ideologies is our downfall, and their trumpcard, which is NO secret to them. All the Germans have to do now is declare Nazism a religion and have their way at it. Anything against it would be hate speech. Good-bye America.
It is impossible to play Kumbaya with Islam anywhere on Earth for any length of time.
Only a delusional idealist denies the reality of both the past and present -- sad but true, history has already indicted Islam as completely incompatible with any culture but it's own. And even that is questionable...
Sad, but highly likely. I ask the skeptics how many DEVOUT non-African-American male Muslims they've spent more than, say 30 hours with.
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