shocking propaganda against France

I am very shocked by the current propaganda against France and, in a minor extent, Germany and the EU, which is developing on the American web and media. As we are some "old Europe" countries, let me tell you that some elements of this propaganda remind me of the atmosphere that existed between European peoples of 1914-18 : the Frenchman is the USA's Jew, the traitor, the coward, which plants knives in the back. These are paranoid ideas. Bush has declared "you are with us or you are against us"… your enemies are "evil's axis"… A deeply thought political theory which reminds me of older simplistic speeches. Believe the experience of "old Europe", who knows a lot about the matter, and is not proud of it : your war has already begun, you're under propaganda, and rational arguments don't prevail any more.

France was on the Gulf ten years ago, when Irak invaded its neighbour, and when the coalition was covered by the UN to free Kuwait.

According to the NATO alliance, France made clear during the first hours after the 11th September that it was ready to respect its engagements if necessary.

But with the future Anglo-Saxon crusade against Bagdad, things are very different. The OTAN was a defensive alliance against the Pact of Varsovia. To be an ally of the USA doesn't mean to give its allegiance to the USA. It means, in case of aggression by another state, that solidarity becomes effective. Irak has not yet attacked anyone. NATO should have nothing to do with "preventive wars".

Can't you all simply understand this : as you are so powerful, rich, and influent, it's more courageous for France to refuse to engage in this war. There will be retaliation against France for such an attitude. To send a few planes in the Gulf and drop a few bombs, just like the UK or Italy, would have been so simple for France.

French people are not the stupid blind nationalists that your propaganda is pretending they are. French people know they have lost their weight in international politics. But they don't want to abandon their sovereignty to an other organisation than the European union. Is it so scandalous that they want to be free and independent ?

Well, it's true that "we are not with you". Because this is not a war for Irak's freedom and democracy. This is not even a war against terrorism ; this war will create thousands of new terrorists full of hate for America. A government only makes war for its own interest. This war is for the Iraki oil, and to be more independent of Saudi Arabia, the country of the 11th September terrorists, where Al Qaida money comes from. It's a war to completely change the Middle-East and so the world-wide energetic map. I find logical for the USA to defend their interests. The powerful countries have always acted like this. It's cynic and amoral, but, somehow, "natural". But stop talking about democracy, and the Good against Evil. This is not Starwars. This is not a Tolkien's story.

S. Hussein is a dictator, he has massacred and tortured. He probably owns and surely has owned chemical and biological weapons. But what about Libya, Iran, North Korea, China in Tibet, Russia in Chechnya, Israel in Palestine, etc… ? If democracy in Irak is the aim, why does it become urgent right now ? Were the Afghans free when the Talibans were installed to stabilise a country where pipe-lines had to go through ?

France is a traitor, France is isolated - isolated with the rest of the world except the OTAN. That's what your leaders need to make you believe because they don't want you to know that you have mainly a simple Anglo-Saxon coalition. OTAN : approximately 20 countries with the new eastern members - less France, Germany, and Benelux. The rest of the world : Asia, Africa, South America, the Middle East… And the rest of the world fears you but it doesn't love you.

Is it so necessary for the USA to crush all possibility of counterbalancing power ? Do they complain about the treason of an ally or the independence of one of their own "satellite countries" ? They have succeeded in being hated by the whole Moslem world - which owns the main oil reserves. Is it so enjoyable that they now need to invective and humiliate the western European countries trying to build their political union ? Do they love so much to be hated ?

To conclude, here's the dream your government is currently destroying by its politics in western Europe - it was made by an "old", "disloyal", "nationalist", "chauvinist" Frenchman (even a bit socialist, what a monster ! …) :

"Un jour viendra où vous, France, vous, Russie, vous, Angleterre, vous, Allemagne, vous toutes, nations du continent, sans perdre vos qualités distinctes et votre glorieuse individualité, vous vous fondrez étroitement dans une unité supérieure et vous constituerez la fraternité européenne, absolument comme la Bretagne, la Bourgogne, la Lorraine, l'Alsace se sont fondues dans la France […]. Un jour viendra où l'on verra ces deux groupes immenses, les Etats-Unis d'Amérique, les Etats-Unis d'Europe, placés en face l'un de l'autre, se tendant la main par-dessus les mers, échangeant leurs produits, leur commerce, leur industrie, leurs arts, leurs génies, défrichant le globe, colonisant les déserts, améliorant la création sous le regard du Créateur."

(The day will come when you, France, you, Russia, you, England, you, Germany, all of you, nations of the continent, without losing your distinct qualities and your glorious individualities, you will melt closely into a superior unity and you will constitute the European brotherhood, absolutely as Brittany, Burgundy, Lorraine, Alsace have melted into France […]. The day will come when we'll see those two huge groups, the United States of America, the United States of Europe, facing each other, offering hand beyond the seas, exchanging their products, their commerce, their industry, their arts, their genius, clearing the globe, colonising the deserts, improving the creation under the look of the Creator.)

European peoples of 1914-18 : the Frenchman is the USA's Jew, the traitor, the coward, which plants knives in the back.

The USA's "Jew"? I have to wonder why you chose that term. I don't consider the French the "Jew". Cowards? Well there's an old saying French rifles, never fired, dropped once. Traitors?

A deeply thought political theory which reminds me of older simplistic speeches.
It is simple. On 9/11, we were bombed. A bunch of Islamic psychoes attached civillians. I'll also say that I think Bush has actually been too restrained on this matter. I think the Saudi's should be taken out.

Believe the experience of "old Europe", who knows a lot about the matter, and is not proud of it : your war has already begun, you're under propaganda, and rational arguments don't prevail any more.

The same could be said about Europe's war begging us to get involved in Bosnia, where the USA not only didn't belong, backed the wrong side. I'm not a Milosevic defender, but the KLA in Kosovo were tied to Bin Laden. That's Billy Clinton there.

France was on the Gulf ten years ago, when Irak invaded its neighbour, and when the coalition was covered by the UN to free Kuwait.
So what?

To be an ally of the USA doesn't mean to give its allegiance to the USA.

No one asked for allegiance.

It means, in case of aggression by another state, that solidarity becomes effective. Irak has not yet attacked anyone. NATO should have nothing to do with "preventive wars".

Kuwait, Israel, US assasination attempt. Not attacked anyone?

Can't you all simply understand this : as you are so powerful, rich, and influent, it's more courageous for France to refuse to engage in this war.

No. It's easy. The French culture is anti-Americans, specifically against Conservative Americans and Libertarian Americans. It part of elitist European culture in general. We're from two different worlds.

French people are not the stupid blind nationalists that your propaganda is pretending they are.

Hell, I respect nationalists. It's not blind nationalism, but blind Anti-Americanism.

this war will create thousands of new terrorists full of hate for America.

Well, Islamic Nutcases hate us already and I wear that as a badge of honor. It won't create terrorists. These terror nuts are already there. BTW - It sure sounds like these Islamic nuts don't like your country much either. From the news I've read, it sure sounds like your cities' suburbs are stricken by a crimewave...with the perps almost always being Islamic nuts.

A government only makes war for its own interest.
No Shit Sherlock.

This war is for the Iraki oil, and to be more independent of Saudi Arabia, the country of the 11th September terrorists, where Al Qaida money comes from.
We NEED to be independent of the Saudis.

But stop talking about democracy, and the Good against Evil. This is not Starwars. This is not a Tolkien's story.
Well, Saddam is certainly an evil bastard. Now to be honest, I'm on the fence with a war against Iraq. If it was a war against the Saudi's, I'd be on board. I haven't seen all the evidence, and I don't take anyone's word for it offhand.

S. Hussein is a dictator, he has massacred and tortured. He probably owns and surely has owned chemical and biological weapons.

Yeah. He has.

But what about Libya, Iran, North Korea, China in Tibet, Russia in Chechnya, Israel in Palestine, etc… ?

MORE LIKE "PALESTINE"(which isn't even a real country) in ISRAEL.

I didn't expect many allies, and I frankly could care less. If we have to go it alone, than that's the way it goes.

OTAN : approximately 20 countries with the new eastern members - less France, Germany, and Benelux. The rest of the world : Asia, Africa, South America, the Middle East… And the rest of the world fears you but it doesn't love you.

Don't care.

They have succeeded in being hated by the whole Moslem world - which owns the main oil reserves. Is it so enjoyable that they now need to invective and humiliate the western European countries trying to build their political union ? Do they love so much to be hated ?

I don't like Moslems so it's mutual. Who is causing most of the world violence. Moslems. Nigeria, Sudan, Lebanon, Yassir Arafat, Indonesia, Phillipines(sp), India, Pakastan, Chechnia(sp) - All Muslim.

I wish the socialists out here in the US went your way. We don't want those jackbooted thugs.

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