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shocking propaganda against France
Fédéraliste

Posted on 01/28/2003 5:05:12 PM PST by PierreEsbaillart

I am very shocked by the current propaganda against France and, in a minor extent, Germany and the EU, which is developing on the American web and media. As we are some "old Europe" countries, let me tell you that some elements of this propaganda remind me of the atmosphere that existed between European peoples of 1914-18 : the Frenchman is the USA's Jew, the traitor, the coward, which plants knives in the back. These are paranoid ideas. Bush has declared "you are with us or you are against us"… your enemies are "evil's axis"… A deeply thought political theory which reminds me of older simplistic speeches. Believe the experience of "old Europe", who knows a lot about the matter, and is not proud of it : your war has already begun, you're under propaganda, and rational arguments don't prevail any more.

France was on the Gulf ten years ago, when Irak invaded its neighbour, and when the coalition was covered by the UN to free Kuwait.

According to the NATO alliance, France made clear during the first hours after the 11th September that it was ready to respect its engagements if necessary.

But with the future Anglo-Saxon crusade against Bagdad, things are very different. The OTAN was a defensive alliance against the Pact of Varsovia. To be an ally of the USA doesn't mean to give its allegiance to the USA. It means, in case of aggression by another state, that solidarity becomes effective. Irak has not yet attacked anyone. NATO should have nothing to do with "preventive wars".

Can't you all simply understand this : as you are so powerful, rich, and influent, it's more courageous for France to refuse to engage in this war. There will be retaliation against France for such an attitude. To send a few planes in the Gulf and drop a few bombs, just like the UK or Italy, would have been so simple for France.

French people are not the stupid blind nationalists that your propaganda is pretending they are. French people know they have lost their weight in international politics. But they don't want to abandon their sovereignty to an other organisation than the European union. Is it so scandalous that they want to be free and independent ?

Well, it's true that "we are not with you". Because this is not a war for Irak's freedom and democracy. This is not even a war against terrorism ; this war will create thousands of new terrorists full of hate for America. A government only makes war for its own interest. This war is for the Iraki oil, and to be more independent of Saudi Arabia, the country of the 11th September terrorists, where Al Qaida money comes from. It's a war to completely change the Middle-East and so the world-wide energetic map. I find logical for the USA to defend their interests. The powerful countries have always acted like this. It's cynic and amoral, but, somehow, "natural". But stop talking about democracy, and the Good against Evil. This is not Starwars. This is not a Tolkien's story.

S. Hussein is a dictator, he has massacred and tortured. He probably owns and surely has owned chemical and biological weapons. But what about Libya, Iran, North Korea, China in Tibet, Russia in Chechnya, Israel in Palestine, etc… ? If democracy in Irak is the aim, why does it become urgent right now ? Were the Afghans free when the Talibans were installed to stabilise a country where pipe-lines had to go through ?

France is a traitor, France is isolated - isolated with the rest of the world except the OTAN. That's what your leaders need to make you believe because they don't want you to know that you have mainly a simple Anglo-Saxon coalition. OTAN : approximately 20 countries with the new eastern members - less France, Germany, and Benelux. The rest of the world : Asia, Africa, South America, the Middle East… And the rest of the world fears you but it doesn't love you.

Is it so necessary for the USA to crush all possibility of counterbalancing power ? Do they complain about the treason of an ally or the independence of one of their own "satellite countries" ? They have succeeded in being hated by the whole Moslem world - which owns the main oil reserves. Is it so enjoyable that they now need to invective and humiliate the western European countries trying to build their political union ? Do they love so much to be hated ?

To conclude, here's the dream your government is currently destroying by its politics in western Europe - it was made by an "old", "disloyal", "nationalist", "chauvinist" Frenchman (even a bit socialist, what a monster ! …) :

"Un jour viendra où vous, France, vous, Russie, vous, Angleterre, vous, Allemagne, vous toutes, nations du continent, sans perdre vos qualités distinctes et votre glorieuse individualité, vous vous fondrez étroitement dans une unité supérieure et vous constituerez la fraternité européenne, absolument comme la Bretagne, la Bourgogne, la Lorraine, l'Alsace se sont fondues dans la France […]. Un jour viendra où l'on verra ces deux groupes immenses, les Etats-Unis d'Amérique, les Etats-Unis d'Europe, placés en face l'un de l'autre, se tendant la main par-dessus les mers, échangeant leurs produits, leur commerce, leur industrie, leurs arts, leurs génies, défrichant le globe, colonisant les déserts, améliorant la création sous le regard du Créateur."

VICTOR HUGO, 1849.

(The day will come when you, France, you, Russia, you, England, you, Germany, all of you, nations of the continent, without losing your distinct qualities and your glorious individualities, you will melt closely into a superior unity and you will constitute the European brotherhood, absolutely as Brittany, Burgundy, Lorraine, Alsace have melted into France […]. The day will come when we'll see those two huge groups, the United States of America, the United States of Europe, facing each other, offering hand beyond the seas, exchanging their products, their commerce, their industry, their arts, their genius, clearing the globe, colonising the deserts, improving the creation under the look of the Creator.)


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: axisofweasels; bedwettingmonkeys; cantspellbaghdad; cheeseeater; elderberries; france; gimmealatte; hamster; ineedazot; isurrender; megazot; moosebitsister; sameggsspamspam; spamspam; spamspambeansspam; spamspamspamspam; surrenderingagain; wavethewhiteflag; wheresmywine; zot; zotmeplease
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To: KarlInOhio
I say we disarm Franch and then send Sadam there to lead...
41 posted on 01/28/2003 5:25:03 PM PST by go star go
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To: PierreEsbaillart
Here it is, plain and simple. We have tolerated 'terrorism' because we have tolerated the notion of plausible deniability, that is, that sponsor states can reap the benefit of a covert war while denying their role in its existence, support, and furtherance. It is-was the only way for the weak -- the world of disaffected Islam -- to confront the strong (US).

But September 11th -- and the transition to power of the conservatives, who will not condone the self-deception and status-quo groveling cowardice that allows such plausible deniabilty to operate -- means that that world is over.

Saddam is the first in our cross-hairs, because he is bound by the treaty of surrender, which is a contract that we intend to enforce. Others may follow, if and as necessary. IMHO, it will not be necessary -- they will soon learn an instructive lesson.

42 posted on 01/28/2003 5:25:21 PM PST by WL-law
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To: Admin Moderator; All

... galvanic electricity ... the frog's leg made to twitch ...

43 posted on 01/28/2003 5:25:31 PM PST by dighton
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To: cardinal4
France is sinking under islamofascist immigration.

And just to prove how absolutely *stupid* they are, they intend to build mosques for 'em!
Terrorism has made France consider changing one of its fundamental principles of keeping state and religion separate and accept the proposal for the state to fund the building of mosques in the country.      France moves to pay for mosques

44 posted on 01/28/2003 5:26:28 PM PST by GirlShortstop
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To: expatpat
These protesters in Africa don't have much use for the French...

They took to the streets in the Ivory Coast when they realized that the French were trying to screw them.

45 posted on 01/28/2003 5:26:36 PM PST by Redcloak (Tag, you're it!)
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To: Bahbah
That should be Zut, not Zoot. Milles pardons.
46 posted on 01/28/2003 5:26:38 PM PST by Bahbah (vive GW)
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To: PierreEsbaillart
Here's a few questions for you:

Why did France refuse the US permission for overflight during the bombing of Libya?

What kind of involvement has France had with Iraq since the end of the Gulf War?

How much money does Iraq owe France and French countries?

Is that why you're standing with Germany?

Oh - and how do you feel about owing the US for the blood spilled to gain your freedom twice in the past century??

It's ok, I don't expect an answer.
47 posted on 01/28/2003 5:26:52 PM PST by Tennessee_Bob (Beat my guest)
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To: go star go
Don't you mean drunk from all the WHINE?
48 posted on 01/28/2003 5:28:01 PM PST by OldFriend (SUPPORT PRESIDENT BUSH)
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To: PierreEsbaillart
What did the Mayor of Paris say to the German Army as they entered during WWII?

Table for One Hundred Thousand?.

49 posted on 01/28/2003 5:28:04 PM PST by TomServo
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To: go star go
Account will be banned shortly. They know this when they sign up again and again, day after day. They post drivel and then when it gets banned they are back on their regular site citing their banishment as "evidence" of the intolerance that is rampant at FR.
50 posted on 01/28/2003 5:28:07 PM PST by babaloo999
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To: tet68; Izzy Dunne
colonising the deserts

The enema of my enema is my friend?

51 posted on 01/28/2003 5:28:32 PM PST by Tennessee_Bob (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line)
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To: PierreEsbaillart
The Maginot Line was the equivalent of using cheesecloth as a condom.
52 posted on 01/28/2003 5:29:55 PM PST by Senator Pardek
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To: Poohbah
The matador!

The matador!
53 posted on 01/28/2003 5:30:04 PM PST by Tennessee_Bob (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line)
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To: PierreEsbaillart
Come on back out and fight, Pierre. Don't worry about your English. It's not that bad. My French is not so great either but I don't let it stop me.
54 posted on 01/28/2003 5:30:12 PM PST by Bahbah (vive GW)
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To: Senator Pardek
Huh, huh, huh... You said "cheese".
55 posted on 01/28/2003 5:30:49 PM PST by Redcloak (...having a Beavis and Butthead moment.)
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To: Tennessee_Bob
A dream!

A dream!

Me!

Me!

56 posted on 01/28/2003 5:31:29 PM PST by Senator Pardek
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To: Tennessee_Bob
Damn. Are we the folks who remember all of the great Strategic Air Command movies, or WHAT?

I always wondered if a bomber pilot would ever do the Slim Pickens act on a bomb in a real war :o)
57 posted on 01/28/2003 5:31:44 PM PST by Poohbah (Four thousand throats may be cut in a single night by a running man -- Kahless the Unforgettable)
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To: PierreEsbaillart

58 posted on 01/28/2003 5:33:24 PM PST by El Sordo (Just a hobo among the trains of thought)
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To: Poohbah
Speaking of great movies - Jimmy Stewart's Strategic Air Command was on a few weeks ago. I love seeing the scenes of the B-36s. Awesome, awesome airplanes. Pity the French could never build anything like that - or a working aircraft carrier, for that matter.
59 posted on 01/28/2003 5:33:43 PM PST by Tennessee_Bob (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line)
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To: PierreEsbaillart
Anglo-Saxon Crusade? (this IS 2003)

Oil Pipelines? (France, Germany and Russia HAVE oil contracts to protect with Iraq)

Thousands of new terrorists that hate America? (Muslims have been preaching hate for decades, that's new?)

So we should attack, NK, Russia, China, Israel (I'm sure you would join the fight against those awful Jews), and Palestine, (when they have their own terrorist state, for sure).

USA wants to be loved? No that's France, lovers of all lovers. Millions come to the USA to WORK, W-O-R-K, do the French have a word for work?

Conspiracy tales are Frances' notion of "rational"?



60 posted on 01/28/2003 5:34:39 PM PST by roses of sharon
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