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Observation on TPS damage on Orbiter
NASA photos | 2-3-03 | BoneMccoy

Posted on 02/04/2003 1:34:19 AM PST by bonesmccoy

In recent days the popular media has been focusing their attention on an impact event during the launch of STS-107. The impact of External Tank insulation and/or ice with the Orbiter during ascent was initially judged by NASA to be unlikely to cause loss of the vehicle. Obviously, loss of the integrity of the orbiter Thermal Protection System occured in some manner. When Freepers posted the reports of these impacts on the site, I initially discounted the hypothesis. Orbiters had sustained multiple impacts in the past. However, the size of the plume in the last photo gives me pause.

I'd like to offer to FR a few observations on the photos.

1. In this image an object approximately 2-3 feet appears to be between the orbiter and the ET.

2. In this image the object appears to have rotated relative to both the camera and the orbiter. The change in image luminosity could also be due to a change in reflected light from the object. Nevertheless, it suggests that the object is tumbling and nearing the orbiter's leading edge.

It occurs to me that one may be able to estimate the size of the object and make an educated guess regarding the possible mass of the object. Using the data in the video, one can calculate the relative velocity of the object to the orbiter wing. Creating a test scenario is then possible. One can manufacture a test article and fire ET insulation at the right velocity to evaluate impact damage on the test article.

OV-101's port wing could be used as a test stand with RCC and tile attached to mimic the OV-102 design.

The color of the object seems inconsistent with ET insulation. One can judge the ET color by looking at the ET in the still frame. The color of the object seems more consistent with ice or ice covered ET insulation. Even when accounting for variant color hue/saturation in the video, the object clearly has a different color characteristic from ET insulation. If it is ice laden insulation, the mass of the object would be significantly different from ET insulation alone. Since the velocity of the object is constant in a comparison equation, estimating the mass of the object becomes paramount to understanding the kinetic energy involved in the impact with the TPS.

3. In this image the debris impact creates a plume. My observation is that if the plume was composed primarily of ET insulation, the plume should have the color characteristics of ET insulation. This plume has a white color.

Unfortunately, ET insulation is orange/brown in color.

In addition, if the relative density of the ET insulation is known, one can quantify the colorimetric properties of the plume to disintegrating ET insulation upon impact.

Using the test article experiment model, engineers should fire at the same velocity an estimated mass of ET insulation (similar to the object seen in the still frame) at the test article. The plume should be measured colorimetrically. By comparing this experimental plume to the photographic evidence from the launch, one may be able to quantify the amount of ET insulation in the photograph above.

4. In this photo, the plume spreads from the aft of the orbiter's port wing. This plume does not appear to be the color of ET insulation. It appears to be white.

This white color could be the color of ice particles at high altitude.

On the other hand, the composition of TPS tiles under the orbiter wings is primarily a low-density silica.

In the photo above, you can see a cross section of orbiter TPS tile. The black color of the tile is merely a coating. The interior of the tile is a white, low-density, silica ceramic.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Editorial; Extended News; Front Page News; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: columbiaaccident; nasa; shuttle; sts; sts107
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To: John Jamieson
The obiter, even with this record weight, started to fall apart over CA at 22Kmph. It supposedly disintegrated at 18K. Since the orbital v was around 26Kmph the weight of the vessel wouldn't matter much. Since the reentry v's the same, they'd have to dump more than an order of magnitude in weight to get a significant reduction of time in the heat zone.
421 posted on 02/07/2003 12:24:39 PM PST by spunkets
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To: bonesmccoy
Interesting observation and recommendation.
422 posted on 02/07/2003 12:37:00 PM PST by Robert A Cook PE (ABCNNBCBS lie!)
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To: spunkets
You've got a lot of screwed up numbers there spunk and not very much real science. Do some research if you want to play in this game.
423 posted on 02/07/2003 1:18:44 PM PST by John Jamieson
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To: John Jamieson
"if you want to play in this game."

You've got some strong comments regarding numbers, but nothing to back them up. If you have a problem with any of it, be specific.

424 posted on 02/07/2003 1:30:20 PM PST by spunkets
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To: wirestripper
What's puzzling to me is, on the one hand there is ample evidence of debris shedding over several states, but little to no data is being relayed from onboard the ship to reflect the ship's shedding or demise. This shedding reached critical mass (in it's effect on the ship) and the proverbial wheel's came off.

I guess the without warning aspect is what I speak to.

I find it very interesting that some evidence points to wing deformity, per the military telescope at the observatory in NM.

The Fox video capture of the shuttle where it zooms in, shows the shuttle's position to be off course (relative wind / angle of attack) by 90 degrees. The ship is wings level, traveling sideways with the nose facing south. How long it had been in that position (by then) is unknown, but at 12-15,000 mph, it's not likely to remain intact for much longer (than the time of video capture / exposure).

I'll take another look at the time line.

425 posted on 02/07/2003 1:32:58 PM PST by freepersup (And this expectation will not disappoint us.)
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To: spunkets
26,000 mph will throw the shuttle or anything else out of the solar system ...... is that a start.
426 posted on 02/07/2003 1:56:42 PM PST by John Jamieson
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To: spunkets
26,000 mph will throw the shuttle or anything else out of the solar system ...... is that a start.
427 posted on 02/07/2003 1:56:52 PM PST by John Jamieson
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To: John Jamieson
All right, that should have been ft/sec...26000 ft/sec. The other units listed in #421 should be ft/sec, not mph also.
428 posted on 02/07/2003 2:01:16 PM PST by spunkets
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To: spunkets
All right, that should have been ft/sec...26000 ft/sec.

25,400 fps is more accurate... ;-)

429 posted on 02/07/2003 2:02:44 PM PST by r9etb
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To: spunkets; All
Well, I located the mpeg that I wanted (apparently shot by the same camera cuz it is out of focus), of the bottom (z-) of the wing.

I have a dell laptop, so I can tilt the screen to get a 3-part 3-d view if I combine them in my head so they layer.

I see the chunk of insulation strike edge on, slightly left(maybe a foot or less) of the point where the wing flares to the front and directly behind the leading edge(maybe 6 inches), of the wing. It appeared to hit right on the line between the black edge and the tiles.

In short, looks like it hit the first row.

As before, when I saw the video on TV, I cannot see any change in hue or a mark of any kind.

Is it possible that the impact damaged the first tile that mates with the leading edge and allowed plasma to flow into the void and burn out the hole until it broke through underneath the leading edge?

This is the only way I can figure the tile impact may have damage the wing enough to cause a eventual loss of the craft.

430 posted on 02/07/2003 2:31:38 PM PST by Cold Heat
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To: snopercod
Please read the above post and tell me something about your tile diagram.

The impact point that I picked, is a tile directly behind the leading edge and it adjoins a border of something that surrounds the left wheel cover.

What would serious damage to the one tile behind the leading edge do to the wheel well integrity, gasket or seal?

431 posted on 02/07/2003 2:43:34 PM PST by Cold Heat
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To: wirestripper; XBob; All
Here is the photo we have been wanting to see.


432 posted on 02/07/2003 3:07:25 PM PST by Budge (God Bless FReepers!)
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To: wirestripper; bonesmccoy; All
This is a smaller version of the picture.

Something certainly seems to be going on, but what?

433 posted on 02/07/2003 3:15:21 PM PST by Budge (God Bless FReepers!)
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To: Budge
I think the jagged edge on the front of the wing is not structure but burning. The trail behind the wing lines right up. I assume the photo is a negative and we're really looking at a very bright orbiter against a relatively dark sky. Something's burning.

Can you invert the video?
434 posted on 02/07/2003 3:37:58 PM PST by John Jamieson
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To: John Jamieson
Can you invert the video?

Will try, John.

435 posted on 02/07/2003 3:40:10 PM PST by Budge (God Bless FReepers!)
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To: wirestripper
Is that the same video? That's roughly were I saw the hit.
436 posted on 02/07/2003 3:49:59 PM PST by spunkets
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To: John Jamieson
On another thread, in response to my question, someone suggested that the ragged edges might be pixillation since they appear on all of the edges of the shuttle, not just the the left wing. That doesn't explain the apparent plume off the trailing edge of the left wing, but there is also a smaller plume off the trailing edge of the right wing. Professional photo analysts can hopefully give a more definitive answer.
437 posted on 02/07/2003 3:52:39 PM PST by Truth29
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To: John Jamieson
Here you go.


438 posted on 02/07/2003 3:54:51 PM PST by Budge (God Bless FReepers!)
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To: Truth29
Perhaps the plume coming off of the trailing edge of the right wing is evidence of heat and or smoke. An infrared exposure would be helpful.
439 posted on 02/07/2003 3:59:25 PM PST by freepersup (And this expectation will not disappoint us.)
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To: spunkets
yup, I did not have access to it other than the couple times I saw it on the tube. I was forced to get real player, which I despise, but I came the the same conclusion.

I will send a copy of the tile diagram to Budge and he can post it to see. I marked the place where I believe the object hit. It was edge, or actually corner first into the wing.

440 posted on 02/07/2003 4:02:13 PM PST by Cold Heat
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