Gun laws a minefield for military

The Orange County Register ^ | Sunday, February 9, 2003 | GORDON DILLOW

[An Old Man]

Sunday, February 9, 2003

Gun laws a minefield for military

By GORDON DILLOW The Orange County Register

As thousands of U.S. military personnel in California deploy to the Persian Gulf in preparation for war, some of them are having a serious problem.

They can't get guns.

Oh sure, the military provides them with an array of weapons: M-16s, grenade launchers, squad automatic weapons and so on. They're heavily armed.

But a lot of military types, particularly guys in special-operations units, like to supplement some of the standard-issue weaponry with privately purchased handguns and gun-related equipment of their own choosing. Often the handguns and equipment they can buy in the private market are better and more advanced than the standard-issue stuff.

But getting those handguns can be a big problem in California, which has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the nation. Although law enforcement personnel are exempted from many of the restrictions on purchasing firearms, military personnel stationed in California are not - even if they're on their way to a combat zone.

"It's a sad state of affairs," says Evan Carolyn, a former Marine who owns Evan's Gunsmithing and Shooter's World in Orange. "There's no way for us to assist these guys in getting the best stuff they can."

For example, recently some members of a special-operations unit - I'm not supposed to say which unit - told Evan they wanted to buy some compact 9-millimeter handguns as personal backup weapons before they shipped out. Unfortunately, there's a 10-day waiting period for firearms purchases in California - and the unit had to leave before the waiting period was up.

And even if they had bought the handguns, they would have had to make do with 10-round magazines instead of the 13-round magazines the weapons are capable of holding. That's because California law bans the sale of "large capacity" magazines - more than 10 rounds - to anyone but police officers.

"We're seeing this kind of thing all the time," Evan says. "This is how we're treating the military in California."

Spokesmen for the state Attorney General's Office, which regulates firearms sales, told me they were aware of the problem involving military personnel and firearms restrictions - but there's not much they can do about it. Even if he wanted to, the attorney general can't waive any of the statutory restrictions on gun sales - not even for guys headed off to war.

And as for the state Legislature amending the gun laws to exempt military personnel under certain special circumstances - well, don't hold your breath. After all, they're the same guys who passed these silly, ineffective laws in the first place.

So that's the situation we have today in California. Apparently we trust our military personnel to handle tanks, machine guns, missiles, grenades, mortars, howitzers, aircraft carriers, submarines, jets, bombs and nuclear weapons. And after making them wait a week-and-a-half, we even trust them enough to let them buy a handgun that holds ten rounds.

But they'd better not ask for one that holds eleven.

[Mulder]

bang

[SAMWolf]

Can we just kick California out of the Union?

[Bogey78O]

My dad liked to carry whatever he could find back in Vietnam. One of his non-American favorites was a Type 59 pistol he got off a corpse. Although the auto nearly got him killed when he accidently engaged it he kept it till it was stolen out of the armory by an officer.

[patton]

Ok,I will go first.

Allow me to say that I have personally handled a NUKE.

God forbid I should handle an 11-round magazine.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Is there some way that these supplemental guns could be shipped out to our boys (and girls) in uniform. And why isn't the Pentagon supplying our military with decent guns anyhow? If these were official military issue, wouldn't the state law be moot?

[Castlebar]

Allow me to say that I have personally handled a NUKE. God forbid I should handle an 11-round magazine

Now wait just a danged minute! I was just checking the records. You signed out for TWO nukes. The log says you only returned one.....Where is it? Cough it up, or I'm gonna tell the duty officer!

[Procyon]

Gee. Maybe the 2nd Amendment really means what it says.

[Centurion2000]

Kalifornia just plain sucks ..... this is a state on socialism ... everyone please take note.

[patton]

Um, oh yeah, well thaaat?

See, it fell of the boat. We had a change in sea state, and, well, heck, the GPS fell off, too!

Honest.

[duk]

I purchased a mossberg 500 to take to Honduras in 87. Bought it at a gun store outside Ft. Ord CA. I also bought my own 5.56 because I just knew they would not issue any for days after we arrived. I was right.
Told a youg man in the guard to bring his own pistol and whatever neat gun acc. he wanted, because those supply guys are real stingy.

[Newbomb Turk]

I don't buy it. No military unit I have ever been in would allow a non gov issued firearm. I am not saying it can't happen but color me skeptical.
Sound off current service members and retirees. Am I just misinformed. Everyone caries knives and other little surprizes though.

[Britton J Wingfield]

I've thought long and hard about this. I'm afraid they'll stick me on a civilian airliner if I get deployed, preventing me from taking a backup piece. Maybe I can finagle a way to get it shipped with some of our heavy gear. I'd hate to end up in jail over something like that.

[patton]

exactly.

[Experiment 6-2-6]

Apparently we trust our military personnel to handle tanks, machine guns, missiles, grenades, mortars, howitzers, aircraft carriers, submarines, jets, bombs and nuclear weapons. And after making them wait a week-and-a-half, we even trust them enough to let them buy a handgun that holds ten rounds.

I seem to recall a rather lengthy waiting period for aircraft carriers and submarines...

That aside, I had the displeasure to serve next to some absolute morons who I sure as hell hope were NEVER entrusted with anything, much less those little toys. The presence of which we can neither confirm nor deny.

'course, I was a surface puke. We got the worst of the lot.

[patton]

LOL, your kidding, right?

We got into a "friendly fire" exhibition - in North Carolina! Everybody had a freekin' hideaway!

[Britton J Wingfield]

I'm sure they would not allow it. I operate under the assumption that it is a lot easier to get forgiveness than permission, though. I've heard from a few individuals that have had their ass saved by an technically-illegal backup piece.

Similarly, I've noticed some of the guys in my unit showing up with their own Trijjicon ACOG sights, especially the guys who've been called up already. God helps those who help themselves.

[joesnuffy]

And at the current rate of gun law propagation
How many of our troops (having been wounded in battle and bravely served defending our nation),
will even be allowed to own or possess weapons to protect themselves and familys 5 yrs from now?

[Britton J Wingfield]

Our OIC put out the word to us to bring whatever we wanted to qualify with, but to knock off the impromptu gunshows in the parking lot.

[Mulder]

No military unit I have ever been in would allow a non gov issued firearm.

It is my understanding that some of the members of special ops units carry whatever they want.