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Assault rifles offer a bit too much for home defense
Indy Star ^

Posted on 02/16/2003 8:38:11 PM PST by conservativefromGa

John Strauss

Assault rifles offer a bit too much for home defense

February 14, 2003

As store shelves throughout the city are emptied of duct tape and plastic sheeting by people concerned about terrorist attacks, other folks think the best defense is a good offense.

Don Davis said gun sales at his Westside store have doubled since the latest terrorism alert. He said the $599 AK-47 is a top seller.

Davis became locally famous a few years ago with endlessly repeated TV commercials in which he cocked a finger at the camera and cackled, "Folks, I don't want to make money -- I just love to sell guns."

It turns out that terrorism sells.

"For me, when times are bad, business is good," Davis said Thursday.

He was at a trade show in Florida this week, shopping for gas masks for customers suddenly nervous about chemical or biological attacks.

At his Don's Guns, manager Ben Chance let me test-fire the AK-47 and a $999 Bushmaster, similar to the military M-16, in the store's indoor range.

The Bushmaster delivers a high-velocity round very accurately with little kick. The AK-47 will give you a jolt, but with that kick you get a larger round capable, they say, of going through a car's engine block.

Just what you need to stop terrorists invading your subdivision.

Of course, some people might end up with guns simply for home protection. And if that's the case, Chance says, an old-fashioned shotgun might do the trick.

"A 12-gauge is a nice gun to have in the house. You don't have to aim the gun. You just point it in the general vicinity, and you're actually going to hit what you're pointing toward, because (the shot) scatters."

Business also was up at 500 Guns on the Westside and at Pop Guns Trading Post on the Eastside. But managers at those stores said that had more to do with the arrival of income tax refund checks than Osama bin Laden or Saddam Hussein.

"There have been a few people come in and express concern," said Mike Hilton, the manager at Pop Guns. "But overall, people tend to be pretty complacent about it, to be honest."

Hilton said he recommends that someone who wants a gun take a training course. Then, once he has an idea of their skill level, he'll suggest a firearm -- often a small revolver.

He's not big on the AK-47 in this case. If used for self-defense, it's likely to "overpenetrate" -- go right through the attacker, through the wall of your home, through the wall of the next house and into somebody there.

Guy Montgomery, manager of 500 Guns, also recommends a revolver -- not a battlefield rifle -- for home defense.

Still, there's a magnetism about the assault weapons. Firing one of these guns is the shooting equivalent of twisting the throttle on a squat Harley -- lots of noise and simple, raw power.

They're fun, but they may not be real practical.

So if you're convinced al-Qaida is down the street and you want to establish a defensive perimeter in the front hallway, do the neighbors a favor.

Just borrow dad's old shotgun.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: assaultrifles; banglist; guns
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To: Aric2000
I am so sorry, but the main purpose of an assault rifle is to wound, NOT kill.

Using mil-surplus FMJ ammo, that's true. But you can also get hollow-point expanding hunting ammo in those calibres that will do a lot more damage

141 posted on 02/17/2003 8:14:24 AM PST by SauronOfMordor (To see the ultimate evil, visit the Democrat Party)
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To: sneakypete
Only if they are wearing hard composite armor plates, which cover the 8X10" of their "center mass".

They are under 4 pounds now, and while not common, are getting fairly common for police raiding units in full gear.

Ditto kevlar (pistol proof only) helmets.

142 posted on 02/17/2003 8:15:46 AM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: razorback-bert
Gee, I am sure under powered with my $50 rusted Sears (Stevens) single shot 16 guage.

LOL! I've got an old 16 guage Stevens double barrel hammer gun for home protection. It was made in the 1930s, and it's quick, no safety, just cock the hammers and fire.

143 posted on 02/17/2003 8:17:21 AM PST by Inyo-Mono
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To: Blood of Tyrants
"If you are looking at the sub $500 FAL's"

Does this include the Cemte rifles (.308) that I have seen at a lot of the gun shows lately? They look a little rough, but not to the point of being junk. I was thinking of getting one.
144 posted on 02/17/2003 8:19:20 AM PST by Constitutional Patriot
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To: sneakypete
Modern JBT body armor will defeat a AK round

Yes standard rounds and IF they have trauma plates, but.. look here

I understand that if you "roll your own" you can get similar performance with a core of hardened T-15 (NOT that I would do anything like that of course :-)

145 posted on 02/17/2003 8:23:23 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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To: PUGACHEV
I'm curious why people always tout pump shotguns.

The theory is that they are less prone to jam than a autoloader. Provided that your high state of excitement doesn't cause you to "short-stroke" it,that is.

They are also the cheapest multi-shot shotgun,and I'm sure that has something to do with it.

146 posted on 02/17/2003 8:24:29 AM PST by sneakypete
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To: from occupied ga
You forgot about the one where the home invaders are wearing kevlar vests. Shotgun is worthless in this situation. AK or AR round will do just fine here.

If the first shot doesn't do the job, aim low. Most non-SWAT-level vests don't cover the pelvic area, and having your testicles blown off and your femoral artery severed will take the fight out of most people.

147 posted on 02/17/2003 8:25:04 AM PST by SauronOfMordor (To see the ultimate evil, visit the Democrat Party)
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To: way-right-of-center
My home defense weapon is a Ithaca model 37

THE finest pump shotgun ever built! I keep mine loaded with #4 buckshot. If I lived in a city or in a apartment,I would probably keep it loaded with #6 or #4 shot. This is providing I lived in a warm climate. If I lived in the north where a intruder is likely to be wearing layers of clothing or even a leather jacket,I'm most likely go to #2 shot or heavier.

148 posted on 02/17/2003 8:28:18 AM PST by sneakypete
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To: yarddog; patton
I have fired a whole lot of AK ammo both professionally and for fun at all sorts of materials and targets . Even the steel core russian issue didn't bust an engine block on our range targets. Exhaust manifolds, radiators, batteries, car doors and PS1 and 2 glass with deflection but never saw a water jacket or block crack. But that is just my experience with it.

Recoil is indeed the Benelli's nemisis IMO. As you know a spare round can stack on the follower if loaded carefully giving a capacity of 9 rounds. With the "Vang" modifications to the barrel the recoil is lessened to a certain degree while enhancing the lethality, accuracy and speed of the hits in the "A" zone.

Ability to handle recoil is a skill that must be "learned" with regards to such a firearm as the M1 Benelli. Managing such recoil is not easy but when mastered the Benelli is indeed a wonder to watch in the hands of such a skilled shooter.

Uncle Sugar sent me to a lot of schools to learn such or I may have done as you did, dropping / selling the M1 for a new Scatter-Gun Tech /Wilson or stock remington pump.

Stay Safe !

149 posted on 02/17/2003 8:30:36 AM PST by Squantos (RKBA the original version of Homeland Security .....the one proven method that works !)
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To: cinFLA
For the less-well informed, you post is entirely misleading.

The AK round IS the ballistic equivalent of the old 30/30 Winchester,though. When was the last time you heard a 30/30 being refered to as a "high-powered rifle"?

BTW,generally speaking,the AK series of rifles are the most inaccurate pieces of crap ever made,and if you hit a man with one at 200 yards,it could be considered to be a accidential shooting. Even the old 30/30 lever actions are much more accurate.

They are super reliable,though.

150 posted on 02/17/2003 8:31:45 AM PST by sneakypete
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To: razorback-bert
Properly loaded with nickles ya can buy all the time ya need Bert :o)

Stay Safe !!

151 posted on 02/17/2003 8:33:16 AM PST by Squantos (RKBA the original version of Homeland Security .....the one proven method that works !)
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To: Pat Bateman
Okay, what about HomeLAND Defence???

Don't you see? That's the job of the new Office of Reich Security! Leave it to those professionals and the professionals at the airports to protect us. They are trained and have badges!

152 posted on 02/17/2003 8:33:39 AM PST by sneakypete
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To: Blood of Tyrants
Until recently, the military refused to buy semi-auto shotguns because they would tend to fail under harsh battlefield conditions.

While it is true they used Model 97 Winchester pump shotguns as "trench guns" in WW-1,there was also no shortage of Model 11 Remington semi-autos configured the same way. You used to see a LOT of these things with "Property of the US Gov't"" stamped on them. The reason the gooberment went to pumps after WW-1 was they were cheaper to buy.

153 posted on 02/17/2003 8:37:53 AM PST by sneakypete
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To: Gritty
Quite frankly, I'm less worried about an Al Qaeda terrorist bursting through my front door than an Al Qaeda attack which leads to civil breakdown, in which case home-grown looters and criminals may come through my "defenseless" neighborhood looking for easy prey. I would like to have something that can stop them further away than my front door.

If things break down to the point where there is no reliable food delivery into your nearest inner-city, the gang-bangers will not be expected to sit around going hungry

Taking a clue from Somalia, you can expect the gang-bangers to come out looking for what they need. Realisticly speaking, you will expect them to strip the local stores rather than bother home owners, because that way they maximise the loot and minimize their chances of getting shot

154 posted on 02/17/2003 8:38:12 AM PST by SauronOfMordor (To see the ultimate evil, visit the Democrat Party)
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To: AnAmericanMother
The .416 Rigby is suitable for absolutely any big game. It is generally an African use cartridge and I happened on mine at a big discount a few years back. I have never had the chance to shoot African game but I personally would feel comfortable with this rifle for such.
155 posted on 02/17/2003 8:39:17 AM PST by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: conservativefromGa
To a point, this article makes sense. A shotgun will inflict the damage necessary to stop an invader, while usually not over penetrating into another house. Even shot that goes through a window will likely not do any damage to the neighbor. Shot placement is also less of a concern than with a rifle. #2 steel shot is my favorite. A nice $350 Remington 780 or $240 Mossberg 590 will do just fine.


156 posted on 02/17/2003 8:40:12 AM PST by PatrioticAmerican (Arm Up! They Have!)
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To: harpseal
I am guessing I am pretty well off unless a T-Rex comes through the front door.

I'm pretty sure the 45/70 would insure you would end up eating T-Rex steaks.

157 posted on 02/17/2003 8:40:52 AM PST by sneakypete
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To: from occupied ga
We really have no real disagreement. It so happens I purchased some flecette rounds a few years back. I most heartily agree that a good rifle is what is needed when dealing with body armor. Penetration will do the job whereas blunt trauma might give a chance for a good follow up shot. I really have not seen many tests with the .308 AP round against body armor vs the .30-06 vs body armor. I would also think the .300 win mag might do well or any number of sabot rounds. Again no data to base this on but it seems logical.
158 posted on 02/17/2003 8:43:28 AM PST by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: Billy_bob_bob
A full fledged .50 Barrett firing armor piercing rounds won't go through a cast iron engine block.

Say WHAT? I guarantee I can load up some CAST 44 Magnum loads that will bust a cast engine block all to pieces. Hell,jacketed 357 Magnums were doing this in the 30's. That's one of the reasons they were developed and accepted for police use. Cast iron is so hard it's brittle.

159 posted on 02/17/2003 8:47:11 AM PST by sneakypete
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To: sneakypete
BTW T-15 steel can be purchased from Kahl Specialty Steel in NC for about $10 a lb
160 posted on 02/17/2003 8:47:58 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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