Posted on 03/09/2003 5:26:36 AM PST by SJackson
As an Iraqi refugee who has experienced firsthand the horrors of Saddam Hussein's despotic reign in Iraq, it's difficult for me to watch hundreds of thousands of people marching in the streets of America and Europe voicing their disapproval of the war plans to liberate my besieged homeland.
As I watch these images roll across my TV screen, I wonder how these protests appear to various audiences in Iraq. I wonder how much pain these rallies cause those Iraqis whose tongues were mercilessly cut off by Hussein because they chose to exercise that same right of free speech in Baghdad.
I wondered how these defiant protest chants sound to the hundreds of victims of Hussein's barbaric ear-cutting policies, for they too were opposed to the concept of war, especially those involving Hussein. I have treated many Iraqi soldiers and brave anti-war activists suffering from severe ear infections with life-threatening consequences, after being subjected to this perverse form of mutilation at the Al-Amarah military hospital. I was a medical intern at the hospital, located in the southern part of Iraq from 1994 until 1996, and was a sad witness to this atrocity. I find it unfortunate and ironic that a Western anti-war activist would march in support of Hussein and his war-inflicting regime while their brave anti-war Iraqi counterparts languish tortured and mutilated in the dark jails of Saddam Hussein.
I wondered how the protest banners carried by the marchers appear to Iraqis who have long been subjected to leafleting by Iraq's "Great Uncle." In 1991, my family was the terrified recipient of one such chilling message when Hussein's military helicopters dropped leaflets informing the residents of my town that the Iraqi military was about to strike us with chemical weapons. We were told the action was necessary in an effort to quell the popular and widespread anti-Hussein uprising. One of these leaflets fell in my family's garden. I can only imagine the horror my family and the residents of my town must have felt when they read the signs of the anti-war protesters asking their leaders to extend the reign of the Butcher of Baghdad.
By Adil Awadh. Adil Awadh, an Iraqi doctor, worked in a military hospital in Iraq from 1994 to 1996. He is an independent member of the Iraqi National Congress and lives in the Washington area
(Excerpt) Read more at chicagotribune.com ...
OK so now I have them, and Iraqi defectors telling the stories of what goes on in Iraq, and I have one guy on the Internet telling me that info is discredited. I have seen multiple sources of information that tell a different story...so your motication here is suspect.
And I'll tell you another thing...I knew four weeks ago that Saddam's atrocities upon his fellow man would be the one lynchpin that trhe left couldn't spin...that there was no justification for leaving a tortuous raping murderer in power regardless opf WMDs or terrorist connections. It is IMMORAL.
As you have seen, this chord has been sounded more and more recently due to the all out atack aginst American power. It only makes sense that, as we go forward and truth emerges, the left will have to send envoys into the public sphere to try and discredit that information.
Welcome to FR...
A real person, beaten to death because he would not abandon his dream of being a doctor to serve in Saddam's army.
Peaceniks march in support of this...
Not that you have ever had any credibility around here.
THE SOCIALIST PARTY OF SERBIA IS AGAINST PRESSURES, THREATS AND SANCTIONS THAT IRAQI PEOPLE ARE EXPOSED TO ON DAILY BASIS ON THE OCCASSION OF THE SEVENTH SESSION OF THE BAGHDAD COMMITTEE TO BE HELD AT BAGHDAD ON MAY 07-09, 2002
THE TRAGIC CONSEQUENCES OF THE NEW WORLD ORDER
It is not difficult to see that world today has entered into new dark age of uncertainty, stagnation, wars, destructions and deep spiritual, ideological and political crisis.
The present political order in the world, which is based on force and power, on bombs and Tomahawk missiles, is permanent source of new dangerous wars and catastrophic crises.
Is there any better proof for such conclusions then new war-threats against Iraq, a sovereign country and founding member of the United Nations, the threats that are completely baseless and contrary to the international law.
Besides, it is clear to everybody in the world that Iraq can not be the threat to anybody since it is the country that is already for 11 years a victim of the unjust sanctions and deadly pressures that could be compared to genocide. However, this heroic country threatened on the daily basis by new military pressures, invasions, bombardments and similar "tools" of so called new world order.
The Socialist Party of Serbia is convinced that any new military action against Iraq and its friendly people can cause new regional and global crisis with extremely dangerous and unforeseeable consequences, as well as harder and more dangerous life for whole world.
The Socialist Party of Serbia expresses its solidarity with friendly Iraq, seeing Iraq, in its courageous resistance against unjust pressures and military threats, as one of the torches of freedom in the present "globalized" world.. On the other hand, it is evident that brave Iraqi people are supported every new day by more and more countries and people in the world, particularly in the Arab world.
One should not forget that creation of the so called new world order, after 50 years of bipolarism, has started through military actions against Iraq, actions which has caused terrible sufferings of Iraqi people in last 12 years.
As the biggest political party in Yugoslavia and the most numerous political force in Balkans, the Socialist Party of Serbia is convinced that all kind of pressures and media-warfare against Iraq (and some other countries) are totally absurd and senseless.
The information system in the world has become the public relations service of the aggressive power centers and the richest capitalists in the Western world.
Fortunately, such senseless propaganda is becoming almost totally useless and counterproductive for its creators.
...
blah, blah, blah....
Iraq, Serbia discuss ties Baghdad, March 5, INA
Director of Foreign Relations Bureau at Iraqs Regional Command of Arab Bath Socialist Party, Harith al-Khshali has received Serb Radical Party delegation headed by President of parliamentary group of party at Serbia and Black Mountain Mrs. Maya Ghoikovetch currently on visit to Iraq in response to an invitation from Foreign Relations Bureau.
Mr. Al- Khshali expressed his appreciation for friendship ties between the two countries which extended for long centuries, considering that aggression on world countries is an expression of hegemonic tendency characterized US administration.
Al- Khshali hailed worldwide national forces stances, which are against US administrations policies and its intentions to dominate and plunder peoples riches. Confirming Iraqs determination to resist this approach , stressing that all world peoples are capable to achieve victory when they are firmly adhered to their national choices and free will.
For her side, Mrs. Ghoikovetch expressed firm position of Serb Radical Party in supporting Iraq, confirming his party stand against US attempts aiming to dominate world peoples.
She expressed her admiration of Iraqi people steadfastness under couragous leadership of President Saddam Hussein.
Monday, March 29, 1999 12 Nisan 5759 Updated Mon., Mar. 29 03:16
Serbia, Iraq forge secret military pact
By DOUGLAS DAVIS
LONDON (March 29) - Serbian President Slobodan Milosevic and Iraq's Saddam Hussein have concluded a secret military pact that will enhance their abilities to withstand allied bombing raids, according to reports in London yesterday.
"We are aware of the reports that there is a connection between the Iraqi and the Serbian regimes," a British official said at the weekend. "We believe that they are accurate and based on good information. Obviously this is a cause for concern and demonstrates the sort of company that Milosevic is now keeping."
A spokesman for British Prime Minister Tony Blair said Blair "is aware of these reports," adding: "Nothing would surprise us about Saddam or Milosevic."
According to a report in the Sunday Telegraph, Milosevic and Saddam have authorized their officials to work closely to fulfill their joint goal of shooting down aircraft flying bombing missions over Serbia and Iraq.
The alliance was initiated with a visit to Baghdad by a Serbian military delegation earlier this month, shortly before NATO commanders last week launched Operation Allied Force. The visit, which marked the first steps in formalizing the Serbian-Iraqi alliance, was intended to explore ways in which the two countries could cooperate to their common advantage.
The Serb delegation was headed by Serbian Deputy Defense Minister Lt.-Gen. Jovan Djukovic and followed a visit by Ivan Ivanovich, a Serb chemical and biological weapons expert, who arrived in Baghdad on March 9 to spend several days visiting Iraqi military facilities.
In addition to conventional military sites, the delegation also visited an Iraqi pharmaceutical plant at Samarra, 170 kilometers from Baghdad, which UN weapons inspectors say is a chemical weapons production site.
Middle East intelligence officials say both visits were authorized by Milosevic. The visits were also confirmed by the Foreign Office in London, where officials regard the growing cooperation between the two with alarm.
"It appears they have identified a common aim - to shoot down allied aircraft," a senior diplomat was quoted as saying. "Saddam and Milosevic see themselves as international outcasts who must support each other if they are to survive."
In return for Serb assistance in rebuilding Iraq's air defenses and making its jet fighters airworthy, Saddam has reportedly agreed to provide Milosevic with oil and cash to sustain the Serbs' battered economy and its war effort.
Since Iraq was subjected to a massive air bombardment by US and British aircraft during and after Operation Desert Fox last December, Saddam has been desperate to shoot down allied bombers and capture their pilots.
The Iraqi air-defense system is currently based on obsolete SA-2 and SA-3 Soviet missile systems, which are no match for the sophisticated air power deployed by US and British fighters patrolling the no-fly zones in northern and southern Iraq.
The Iraqis want Serbia to provide them with the advanced SA-7 anti-aircraft missile system, which was originally built to a Soviet design but has been upgraded by the Serbs and could seriously threaten allied warplanes. It is understood that Serb technicians are already assisting the Iraqis to prepare air-defense traps for allied warplanes.
The Iraqis are also reported to be seeking Serb assistance to modernize their aging squadrons of MiG-21 and MiG-29 fighters. Serb technicians regularly serviced Iraqi MiGs before the current conflict, and there have been reports that, despite the current bombardment, Serbian military specialists are being assigned to work with the Iraqi air force.
It is also believed that Moscow, which has condemned the NATO assault, will be more forthcoming - and more open - about its assistance to Iraq.
Yugoslavia's "Iraq-gate" complicates NATO dialogue
BELGRADE (AFP) Oct 30, 2002
Revelations of Yugoslavia's illegal military cooperation with Iraq will complicate Belgrade's plans to join a partnership scheme with NATO, analysts said. But experts on the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation gathered for a seminar here this week said the scandal probably would not have long-term consequences for Yugoslavia's eventual entry into the alliance.
"Such hiccups have occured with most of the countries that are joining NATO and many of them that are in NATO," said Ira Straus, a Washington-based analyst from the independent Committee on Eastern Europe and Russia.
"It's a bump. It could delay the dialogue, slow it down a little bit, but I don't expect it to be a major obstacle."
The scandal broke last week when Washington went public with allegations that a state-run trading company, Jugoimport, had acted as a middleman in the supply of spare parts for Iraqi fighter jets.
The State Department said a state-owned Bosnian firm, Orao, was manufacturing the parts and selling them through Jugoimport to Saddam Hussein's regime in breach of UN sanctions.
Belgrade reacted swiftly to put out the fire.
Last week the chief of Jugoimport and a deputy defence minister were sacked, Jugoimport's office in Baghdad was closed and a special committee was established to investigate both the company and the defence ministry.
Heads also rolled in the Serb-run entity of Bosnia, where three officials were fired and, after further prodding from Washington, the defense minister and army chief-of-staff resigned on Monday.
Yugoslav President Vojislav Kostunica tried to play down Jugoimport's role in the illegal trade, which he characterised as a "hazardous and irresponsible business move" undertaken without the government's approval or knowledge.
Meanwhile the scandal thickened over the weekend when the Washington Post reported that the United States believed Yugoslav companies were also helping Iraq to build cruise missiles.
Baghdad already has ballistic missiles but they are considered relatively inaccurate.
There has been no official confirmation from US or Yugoslav officials of the missile allegations, which have also appeared in the local press.
Straus said Yugoslavia's relations with the Western powers and NATO was complicated by fresh memories of the Atlantic alliance's bombing campaign against the Yugoslav army three years ago.
"This gave them the moral licence to make those sales. It creates a cynicism which enables money to drive things," he told AFP on the sidelines of a conference called "Advancing into the Euro-Atlantic Partnership."
He said that while the government had undergone a re-orientation toward the West, the military would take longer to reconcile itself to a strategic partnership with its former enemies.
"Such cynicism exists in the West as well, but more so in countries which are reversing their orientation and the military doesn't quite know yet what it's all about."
Other speakers at the conference, including senior Yugoslav military and government officials, made only passing mention of the scandal, preferring to dwell on broader issues of NATO's expansion to the east.
Predrag Simic, an advisor to Kostunica, alluded to the Washington Post article and said Yugoslavia's military-related industries needed to be updated with "modern European concepts."
NATO leaders are to meet next month in the Czech capital, where they are expected to approve the accession of seven new members -- Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia and Slovenia.
Meanwhile Yugoslavia is in line to join the so-called Partnership for Peace (PFP) programme, which includes defence planning and military exercises between member states and NATO.
Twenty-seven countries are currently PFP members.
1. Iraqi Regime Crimes: Torture and Killing
from the State of Kuwait, website:
Amnesty International issued a report on human rights violations in Kuwait from August 2, 1990 till December 1990. The report cited the following:. . . In the period from August to November 1990, Amnesty International interviewed dozens of Kuwaiti prisoners of war captured by the Iraqi forces. Most of those Kuwaiti victims were males aged 16-35. Some of them had signs of torture still on their bodies. The organization also received statements from the families of the victims of torture, the physicians who examined them and from those who had buried the victims who died of torture. There were even stories about torture, rape and general mistreatment of women. This report ended with a detailed list of the methods of torture employed by the Iraqi troops against Kuwaitis since August 2nd. . . . [snip]
2. Iraqi Horrors the Peace Movement Ignores By John Perazzo
FrontPageMagazine.com | November 29, 2002
. . . Once prisoners are incarcerated for disloyalty to the regime, their suffering is so great it can scarcely be described. Many are placed in solitary confinement on starvation diets. Confessions are forced from them by the most gruesome methods imaginable: They are struck with brass knuckles and wooden bludgeons; they receive electric shocks to their genitalia; scorching metal rods are forced into their body orifices; their toes are crushed and their toenails pulled out; they have their limbs literally burned off; they are slowly lowered into large vats of acid until they confess or die. Many are poisoned with thallium, which causes its victims enormous agony before they die. When these prisons periodically get overcrowded, they are "cleaned out" by means of summary executions. . . . [snip]
3. Human Rights Watch: Iraq and Iraqi Kurdistan
. . . Iraqi intelligence agents targeted political opponents who had fled Iraq, threatening and intimidating them or arresting and torturing family members still in the country. On June 7, Staff Lieut. Gen. Najib al-Salihi, former chief of staff of the Iraqi army's Sixth Armoured Division who had fled to Jordan in 1995, received a videotape showing the rape of a female relative by intelligence personnel. The rape or threat of rape has long been used in Iraq as a punitive measure against opponents to extract confessions or information or to pressure them into desisting from anti-government activities. Shortly afterwards, Salihi received a telephone call from his brother in Baghdad, asking him to cease all opposition activity. Iraqi political exiles living in Europe and elsewhere consistently reported being threatened with the arrest or execution of their relatives if they did not return to Iraq or abandoned opposition activity, and asylum seekers in Jordan, Syria and other countries reported being under surveillance by Iraqi intelligence agents. . . . [snip]
4. Briefing On Iraqi Regime Human Rights Abuses (December 4, 2002): Edited Transcript of a briefing given by UK Foreign Office Officials and Dr Hussein Al-Shahristani, London, 2 December 2002 From the Iraq Foundation website:
I have been a witness to Saddams violations of human rights in Iraq. I was the Chief Scientist of the Iraqi Atomic Energy Organization until 1979, working on peaceful applications of atomic energy. I was arrested, tortured and kept in solitary confinement for over 11 years for refusing to work on the military nuclear program. However, I was more fortunate than many of my fellow political prisoners in the country. I did not have holes drilled into my bones, as happened in the next torture room. I did not have my limbs cut off by an electric saw. I did not have my eyes gauged out. My three children were brought in to the torture chamber but they were not tortured to death in front of me to force me to make confessions to things I had not done. Women of my family were not brought in and raped in front of me, as happened to many of my colleagues. Torturers did not dissolve my hands in acid. I was not among the hundreds of political prisoners who were taken from prison as guinea-pigs to be used for chemical and biological tests.They only tortured me for 22 days and nights continuously by hanging me from my hands tied at the back and using a high voltage probe on the sensitive parts of my body and beating me mercilessly. They were very careful not to leave any permanent bodily marks on me because they hope they can break my will and I will agree to go back and work on their military nuclear program. . . . [snip]
5. Iraqi Dictator Saddam Hussein's Shop of Horrors by Jeff Jacoby (November 15, 2002)
. . . In June, the BBC interviewed "Kamal," a former Iraqi torturer now confined in a Kurdish prison in the north. "If someone didn't break, they'd bring in the family," Kamal explained. "They'd bring the son in front of his parents, who were handcuffed or tied and they'd start with simple tortures such as cigarette burns and then if his father didn't confess they'd start using more serious methods," such as slicing off one of the child's ears or amputating a limb. "They'd tell the father that they'd slaughter his son. They'd bring a bayonet out. And if he didn't confess, they'd kill the child." . . . [snip]
6. Scott Ritter in His Own Words, Saturday, Sep. 14, 2002
QUESTION: You've spoke about having seen the children's prisons in Iraq. Can you describe what you saw there?SCOTT RITTER: The prison in question is at the General Security Services headquarters, which was inspected by my team in Jan. 1998. It appeared to be a prison for children toddlers up to pre-adolescents whose only crime was to be the offspring of those who have spoken out politically against the regime of Saddam Hussein. It was a horrific scene. Actually I'm not going to describe what I saw there because what I saw was so horrible that it can be used by those who would want to promote war with Iraq, and right now I'm waging peace. [snip]
7. If Antiwar Protesters Succeed
Christian Science Monitor, February 26, 2003
To publish an unsigned opinion piece is an exception to the Monitor's policy. But the views expressed here, if put with a name, could endanger the writer's extended family in Baghdad. The author - known to Monitor staff - was born and raised in Iraq. Now a US citizen with a business that requires extensive world travel, the author is in frequent touch with the Iraqi diaspora but is not connected with organized opposition to Saddam Hussein.. . . What if you antiwar protesters and politicians succeed in stopping a US-led war to change the regime in Baghdad? What then will you do?
Will you also demonstrate and demand "peaceful" actions to cure the abysmal human rights violations of the Iraqi people under the rule of Saddam Hussein?
Or, will you simply forget about us Iraqis once you discredit George W. Bush?
Will you demand that the United Nations send human rights inspectors to Iraq? Or are you only interested in weapons of "mass destruction" inspections, not of "mass torture" practices?
Will you also insist that such human rights inspectors be given time to discover Hussein's secret prisons and coercion as you do for the weapons inspectors? Or will you simply accept a "clean bill of health" if you can't find the thousands of buried corpses?
* * * Will you decry the hypocritical oil and arms commerce of France, Germany, Russia, and China with the butcher of Baghdad? Or are you only against US interests in Iraqi oil?
* * * Will you hear the cries of Iraqis executed in acid tanks in Baghdad? the Iraqi women raped in front of their husbands and fathers to extract confessions? Or of children tortured in front of their parents? Or of families billed for the bullets used to execute military "deserters" in front of their own homes?
No. I suspect that most of you will simply retire to your cappucino cafes to brainstorm the next hot topic to protest, and that you will simply forget about us Iraqis, once you succeed in discrediting President Bush.
Please, prove me wrong.
Let me just say first off that neither President Bush or I want to see us go to war anymore than anyone else does. But, the fact remains that while X42 squandered away his survillence resources going after his political enemies, Saddam took advantage and built up more WMD's. As such he does indeed pose a National Security risk to this country and as a result we really don't have much choice.
The only other option left could very well be mushroom cloud erupting over a part of this country. Is this what all you Saddam appeasers want?
And another thing. For those who are continuing to choose live in a state of denial about the human rights violations by Saddam. My question to you is are you just choosing to carry on this attitude because this is the kind of person you want runing this country? I can tell you that we had someone like Saddam or Mugabe in the White House right now, this nation would end up being a third world country.
You may think it's cool for Saddam or Mugabe or their kind to go and punish their politcal opponents this way but I don't. I don't have any use whatsoever for people of this kind and I can assure you I for one WILL NOT cooperate or accept the authority of any such person like this. I don't care if it makes me a troublemaker or a pariah or what. I just will not submit to any such authority.
I think it's time for our president to do the same thing and get on with this war and SCREW the U.N.!!!!! As far as I'm concerned their authority means diddily squat and they are proving it so.
LET'S ROLL!!!!!!!
Ever hear of Iran-Contra Gate? Guilty of selling arms to known terrorist organization. I think that said enough.
Two scandals almost toppled the aforementioned pillar of United States power. The Middle Eastern country of Iran received, arms for [United States] hostages, and the money acquired by the United States for such sales went to Nicaraguan Contras, or, rebels. These two interrelated scandals had a further thing in common. Both went forward with knowledge of Executive Branch officials yet no approval by the Legislative Branch. One of the key players in the both scandals was the National Security Councils Oliver North. (Fried, 1997, pp. 63-64) Reaching to the highest levels of government, North told Congress he thought, he was acting under the authority of the Commander in Chief.(Fried, p. 69)
What else do you want to know about the duplicity of the US govt role in their support of other terrorist organizations? Shall I show you the KLA/NATO buddy relationship? Need proof?
I tell you what, you just rely on "internet sources"... How many times did NATO/US lie to you on Bosnia and Kosovo and you fell for it, How many times? Do you want examples of those lies?
What proof do you need on those areas?
My credibility? Where were you in Bosnia in what years or months? Where?
BTW, get or come up with an original thought/slogan--"Lets Roll".
Logic error: "Two Wrongs Make a Right"Description of Two Wrongs Make a Right
Two Wrongs Make a Right is a fallacy in which a person "justifies" an action against a person by asserting that the person would do the same thing to him/her, when the action is not necessary to prevent B from doing X to A. This fallacy has the following pattern of "reasoning":It is claimed that person B would do X to person A.
It is acceptable for person A to do X to person B (when A's doing X to B is not necessary to prevent B from doing X to A).
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because an action that is wrong is wrong even if another person would also do it.
You justify allowing innocents to be murdered because you question US action in Iran Contra. This is quite illogical and even more alarming, it is immoral.
It's you who needs to open your mind up to what's going on. Not me.
You and your peacenik crowd aren't holding any sway over me.
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