OUTRAGE OVER NEW WRONG-DOOR BLUNDER BY POLICE

New York Post ^ | May 23, 2003 | By ERIKA MARTINEZ and ED ROBINSON

[EBUCK]

May 23, 2003 -- Residents of a Bronx building are outraged after getting an unexpected morning "greeting" yesterday from a police drug squad, which burst into their homes, waved guns at children and then left after finding nothing. "At 7:50 a.m., they burst down the door to the building," said Joe Celcis, a teacher whose mother and sister live in the home.

[Redcloak]

But it's for the children...

[EBUCK]

Nothing will happen to them. They are above the law. Besides their information, wrong house, no drugs, no guns etc.. was acurrate so what's to prosecute??

[EBUCK]

LOL!!! That's great!

[EBUCK]

And if they don't get our friendly #2 brother you can surely bet that the ATF, the FBI, and every other ABC friggin group is readdy to "help" in the capture of the dangerous citizen.

[Servant of the Nine]

I believe that the No-Knock became the norm in response to "safety concerns" expressed by cops.

For nearly 200 years, cops without kevlar knocked on doors to serve warrants. Something has to change.

So9

[EBUCK]

Yah, how many kids get a good up close and personal look at a police issue firearm? Close Range edumacation IMO.

[EBUCK]

Nutin is goin to change. We haven't had a cop shot in my area in years (been a rare occurance for ever). Yet no-knocks are the norm when dealing with drugs. They got the new SEAL type uniforms recently too, sharp and intimidating all in one package!!!

[Buggman]

Whatever happened to the police politely knocking on the door, showing the warrant and doing a search without terrorizing everybody in sight?

Simple. Several of them got blown away by drug dealers who, having heard the knock and the words, "Police! We have a warrant!" promptly picked up their favorite pieces, put themselves in a good position, and shot the cops either through the door or as they were coming in.

Look, I agree that it sucks that these cops terrorized this family, and I think whoever screwed up the operation needs to be busted for it (I also think they have a right to know who fingered them for drug dealers), but try thinking it through before you assume that the cops come on fully armed and with overwhelming force just for the power rush. They do it so that the other guy doesn't have the chance to even think about firing back, making it safer for all concerned, both them and the suspects.

[Stew Padasso]

"What's next, Search warrants for entire city Blocks?"

I'm sure there are some on FR who would see nothing wrong with room to room neighborhood sweeps.

[Beck_isright]

But of course. Owning a firearm makes you a dangerous gun nut. It's in the Communist Manifesto, I'm sure. And the UN handbook. The EU Constitution. The handbook of Amnesty International. The DNC permanent policy committee....etc....etc...

[Beck_isright]

"They do it so that the other guy doesn't have the chance to even think about firing back, making it safer for all concerned, both them and the suspects."

So when they do finally get the "wrong" address some day, and it's one of the 2nd Amendment FReeper loving NRA types and 3 or 4 officers get wasted and the innocent subject does too, what will you say to their families? Oops? So Sorry? Here's 10 million bucks and shut up? The problem is that the warrants and bad no-knocks are just plain lazy. Intel is where police lack and it's being proven every day with these latest incidents.

[Focault's Pendulum]

Well at least they didn't use a stun grenade giving somebody a heart attack this time.

"I thought you pulled the pin"....."No..I thought you pulled the pin"....."No I pulled the pin last time, it was your turn"..."Nope...I broke down the door last time"...."I don't think so, uh, is this the apartment?....."Don't try to change the subject."

[Mark was here]

Look, I agree that it sucks that these cops terrorized this family

They were not cops, cops are useful, these were just revenue agents out for a piece of the action.

Why do you think a percentage of what they collect goes to their budgets?

[jimt]

I would like to see these rambo-wannabee pigs convicted and jailed. As that's highly unlikely, I very much hope they meet up with appropriately armed homeowners. Or drive their pigmobiles off a bridge.

These aren't "law enforcement" or "police" officers - these clowns are pigs. They belong in communist China or Iran. They are utterly unsuitable for American law enforcement.

[aruanan]

Several of them got blown away by drug dealers who, having heard the knock and the words, "Police! We have a warrant!" promptly picked up their favorite pieces, put themselves in a good position, and shot the cops either through the door or as they were coming in.

Hmmm, something that never used to happen in the days before criminalization of drugs. It's not that life was so much better then, it's just that in addition to having addicts we now have drug cartels living off the users and cops and politicians and anti-drug programs like D.A.R.E. living off the drug cartels. All the rest of the bad stuff was caused, not by the drugs, but by the criminalization of them. The party responsible for this is Congress.

[Gritty]

try thinking it through before you assume that the cops come on fully armed and with overwhelming force just for the power rush

I don't assume at all they do this for the "power rush". No doubt it makes the door bashers feel a lot safer. But, what about the innocent citizens?

My problem is, today it's OK to do it for all drug busts, tomorrow it may be for parking tickets or failure to appear. After all, it is always easiest (and safest) to assume there is armed menace lurking just inside every door.

Look. I'm no fan of drug dealers. But there has to be some sort of proportionality here. Where does this stop?

"It can't happen here", you say? Well, how about the practice of "forfeiture", which is clearly an unConstitutional "taking"? It started small, and now practically funds entire police departments. It started with "drugs" and now people are losing their expensive cars over such things as soliciting prostitutes. You are assumed guilty unless you can prove yourself innocent. That sure isn't American Constitutional Law, although it may be today's jurisprudence.

The abuse of civil liberties tends to accelerate in direct relationship to the "requirement" for safety. Pick any Amendment and try it on for size. You'll find they are all eroded this way.

Similarly, there are more than enough of these dangerous and even deadly incidents of "mistaken identity" happening nowadays. Police departments should only use these techniques when there is a demonstrated threat, not when the case is full of "might be's", much less wrong addresses!

Sure. Policing is a dangerous business. Increasingly, so is being an innocent citizen.

[Ten Megaton Solution]

All the rest of the bad stuff was caused, not by the drugs, but by the criminalization of them.

If you make too much sense, they'll come no-knocking on your door. The powers that be love the WOD, and would never do anything to end it.

[exodus]

What is so pathetic about supplying a product (drugs) to a 12 year old? Maybe she was just running an errand for her mother?

Where in the US Constitution did the Founding Fathers give up the right to treat their own health without permission (read prescriptions) from a government agent (read doctors).

It is indeed pathetic that people have no clue as to what the Constitution means when it says all rights not given to the government are reserved to the people.
*************************************

I think I've fallen in love with you, Mrs. Mark.

Mr. Mark is a very lucky man.

As you've noted, doctors are agents of our government. Our government requires that we go to doctors instead of treating ourselves or each other. "Practicing medicine" without government permission is a illegally prohibited, "illegally" because the Constitution does not give our government permission to infringe upon our right to protect our health in the way we see fit.

Government control of health services also explains why medical expenses have gone beyond reach of ordinary people. Nowadays, nobody can afford to have a medical problem if they don't have insurance, because the artificial controls our government has imposed on health services, combined with governmental prohibiting of "practicing" medicine by lay people, have driven costs beyond what we can pay.

[babaloo999]

HELP!!!

Heh.
A couple of reinforcements, in case this thread doesn't crawl off behind the barn and die.