New Mexico: Family Sues Minister For H--- Of A Prediction

BBC On Line ^ | July 17, 2003 | staff writer

[yankeedame]

Last Updated: Thursday, 17 July, 2003, 11:34 GMT 12:34 UK

Church sued for 'hell prediction'

The priest allegedly said Martinez was "living in sin"

A New Mexico family is suing its local Catholic church over a funeral Mass at which the priest allegedly said their relative was going straight to hell. The family of Ben Martinez, 80, allege that Reverend Scott Mansfield said he was "living in sin," "lukewarm in his faith" and that "the Lord vomited people like Ben out of his mouth to hell".

Around 200 people attended the funeral of Mr Martinez - a local town councillor - at St Patrick's Parish in Chama, north of Santa Fe, last month.

Nine members of the Martinez family are seeking punitive and compensatory damages for severe emotional and physical suffering.

If you are Catholic and a representative of your church says your father is going to hell, that's perhaps the most devastating thing someone can say to you

Kathleen Kentish-Lucero Family's lawyer They say Mr Martinez had been a practising Catholic all his life, but was too ill to attend church in his last year.

"These people are profoundly hurt," said lawyer Kathleen Kentish-Lucero, representing the Martinez family.

"If you are Catholic and a representative of your church says your father is going to hell, that's perhaps the most devastating thing someone can say to you."

One of the plaintiffs allegedly said people in the town "are staring at her, thinking her father is in hell."

The complaint also said that as Father Mansfield walked to the grave, he laced his comments about Mr Martinez with profanities.

Church denial

Lawyers did not say how much the family was seeking in damages.

But church officials have denied the family's claims.

"We deny the allegations and Father Mansfield denies the plaintiff's allegations," said Celine Baca Radigan, director of communications for the Archdiocese of Santa Fe.

She said that Father Mansfield has been moved to another parish on a routine transfer.

Lawyers for the Martinez family said they had filed a lawsuit against the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Santa Fe and one of its priests.

[Centurion2000]

These people need to grow up. Suing someone because you got insulted is about the biggest neon sign saying "I'm a complete pansy" that I can think of.

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[Zavien Doombringer]

What damages? According to scripture, if you live in sin, you will be in hell...The Priest is right...not tactful and timely, but is right.

[NC Conservative]

FOR THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH BUT THE GIFT OF GOD IS ETERNAL LIFE.

[ZinGirl]

One of the plaintiffs allegedly said people in the town "are staring at her, thinking her father is in hell."

no...they're probably staring at her thinking, "i can't friggin' believe she's getting a lawyer. what a nimrod.....always gotta blame somebody...."

crikey.....

[The Hon. Galahad Threepwood]

This was a tasteless thing to say at someone's funeral (if in fact he said it). However, if a clergyman can be successfully sued for saying that someone is going to hell, then we will no longer have freedom of religion in this country (not to mention the implications for freedom of speech).

[ZinGirl]

AND.....I'm curious to see just how they're going to PROVE he's in hell.....unless they find him wandering around Berkley campus.

[laweeks]

We live in a media-inspired world now where ALL people will go to heaven to meet up with our Disney-type god. After all, evil is just a judgement call anyway, and our new god would never send us to hell, now would he? But this god that's being flaunted at us by the secular world was made by man. We forget that man was made by God, not god by man. And He has high standards.

[george wythe]

There First Amendment protections to religion are too robust for this suit to even prevail at the trial level.

Churches have the right to teach anything they want, with very limited exceptions. For instance, advocating direct violence against a group of people will probably be illegal, but claiming that sinners go to hell rises to level of summary dismissal.

[AmericanInTokyo]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at reading this.

[LizardQueen]

IMHO, it's God's job to judge who is going to hell and who isn't, not the priests.

And this was a tacky thing to say at a funeral - telling a parishioner they are hellbound should be done before they die to give them a chance to turn it around.

Funerals are for comforting the family, not lecturing the dead person over something that can't be changed at that point.

But is it lawsuit-worthy? No way.

Just my $.02.
LQ

[Fiddlstix]

The country has gone crazy with stupid law suits. This is another fine example.

[Revelation 911]

he may very well be there - but it was incredibly tactless and tasteless thing to say it at the funeral.

Kathleen Kentish-Lucero Family's lawyer They say Mr Martinez had been a practising Catholic all his life, but was too ill to attend church in his last year.

....just curious - how many sick calls did the good priest make, tending his flock during that period?

The road to hell is paved with the skulls of jackasses like him

[Unassuaged]

Do any churches preach that people go to hell(or heaven) before Judgement Day?

[af_vet_1981]

This was a tasteless thing to say at someone's funeral (if in fact he said it).

Assume he was saying it for the benefit of those who have ears to hear.
• There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
• And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
• And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
• And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
• And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
• And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
• But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
• And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
• Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
• For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
• Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
• And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
• And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

[ikka]

The complaint also said that as Father Mansfield walked to the grave, he laced his comments about Mr Martinez with profanities.

I think they are going to need to have witnesses who are not related to the family to make that one stick. Unless they can prove the good priest had a little too much communion wine.

[sinkspur]

just curious - how many sick calls did the good priest make, tending his flock during that period?

Mansfield needs some pastoral guidance, which I'm sure he'll get from his Archbishop, Michael Sheehan, when this lawsuit hits his desk.

What an incredibly stupid and insensitive thing to say at a funeral! I'd have stood up and gotten in this twit's face, challenged him to PROVE what he was saying!

[Dudoight]

She should get a Canon lawyer to try to get her father out of hell! LOL!

[Unassuaged]

Bummer, I see that there is a link to calcs on thier homepage, but it is broken!