New Mexico: Family Sues Minister For H--- Of A Prediction

BBC On Line ^ | July 17, 2003 | staff writer

[WestPacSailor]

I see a Johnny Cochrane in their future! What ever happend to "sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me?"

[sandydipper]

On the other hand the "church" considers Ted Chapaquidick Kennedy a saintly person! Go figure.

[Tijeras_Slim]

She said that Father Mansfield has been moved to another parish on a routine transfer.

Holy Child Parish in Tijeras.

[Polybius]

According to scripture, if you live in sin, you will be in hell...The Priest is right...not tactful and timely, but is right.

And how do you or the Priest have any idea whether or not the old man made his peace with God before he died?

In regards to Scripture, the following would be relevant:

Matthew 7:1-2

James 4:11-12

Romans 2:1

1 Corinthians 4:5

[PatrioticAmerican]

So much for religion: "Say something nice our get sued!"

[Zavien Doombringer]

Here in lies the problem, the statement the priest made is correct, you live in sin you will be in hell...

The problem may be the premis of "judging" the father to hell. That is not the job of a priest or any other being but God. God looks on the heart of man, man looks at man according to his deed, and judges himself.

[LibertyAndJusticeForAll]

Yes. Luke 16:20-31 depicts Lazarus, once a beggar, in Abraham's Bosom and the rich man who ignored him in hell, being tormented. Across the great chasm the rich man sees Lazarus and Abraham and begs for a finger of water to cool his tongue. His request is denied. He then asks that Abraham send Lazarus to his brothers to warn them. But Abraham answers that they have the Prophets and if they don't listen to them they won't listen to Lazarus either.

Good Ole Baptist Preachers once preached Hell and Damnation every chance they got.

[ShadowAce]

Do any churches preach that people go to hell(or heaven) before Judgement Day?

Yes. See Post #16.

[LiteKeeper]

SPOTREP

[Blzbba]

According to scripture, "Judge not, lest thee be judged".



Where does this priest get off passing judgment on someone's entire life?

[Blzbba]

"IMHO, it's God's job to judge who is going to hell and who isn't, not the priests. "

Agreed.

That's also the opinion of Scripture.

[Blzbba]

"AND.....I'm curious to see just how they're going to PROVE he's in hell.....unless they find him wandering around Berkley campus. "



Good point....and LMAO!

Although he could also be walking around Riyadh or Baghdad...

[George W. Bush]

Yeah, but the question is: if the family wins, will they tithe 10% of their settlement back to the Roman church?

[yankeedame]

no...they're probably staring at her thinking, "i can't friggin' believe she's getting a lawyer. what a nimrod....."

LOL! Righto! And they're probably also thinking: "What kinda lawyer would ever touch this case? One of our local guys? Gotta find out..."

[Zavien Doombringer]

According to scripture, "Judge not, lest thee be judged".

Ok, most take that scripture and use it to pretty much say "leave me alone". But that isn't the case.

Most people who do not know scripture pull that line out of context. I do not know the priest in question, or the father that died, but I am sure that priest may have known the deceased. I will not comment on any of thier actions but what the Bible says.

Here is the verse you were referring to:

Matthew 7

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. 6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

It is a lesson in hypocricy, not judgment. Jesus didn't say not to judge, but becareful what you judge.

[George W. Bush]

Funerals are for comforting the family, not lecturing the dead person over something that can't be changed at that point.

Civil marriage and funeral rites are a business that the church shouldn't be in. Some outstanding Christians may deserve a church funeral. But you never know which ones.

Under Roman theology, one might claim that the power of the priesthood is so binding upon Heaven that the priest has cursed this dead man into hell by his priestly authority (they claim that the Roman church is God's sole authority on earth and that He is compelled, whether He likes it or not, to honor their judgment, it's like a binding contract they claim for the Petrine succession). But I don't think even the most traditional of Roman theologians would agree that this priest has bound the man into hell using his supernatural prietly powers.

[Revelation 911]

Do any churches preach that people go to hell(or heaven) before Judgement Day?

1 Thess 4 The Coming of the Lord 13Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. 14We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage each other with these words.

Now explain what you were thinking - because I have this sense you are baiting me in

am I wrong?

[laweeks]

God has given these ministers a complete book of rules, the Bible. It's very clear as to what's acceptable and not acceptable. It's not up to man to pick and choose. That's why Christianity is loosing its grip. Too many pastors worried about thier 501(C)3 status instead of doing their job.

I agree it was tacky. This priest should have worked with this man before the man died. However, I'm wondering why he even performed the ceremony if he was so incensed. Probably should have passed it off to one of his more lenient colleagues.

[Blzbba]

Your post was 100% accurate (IMO), but I think the quote is still relevant, even in your correct-context, in that a priest should not be passing judgement on a man's entire life...that he should certainly be careful in judgement here.

[Zavien Doombringer]

Yes, you are right. Given the circumstances, the timing was poor as well as the tact. If any damage has occured, it was because the event was quenched by the remarks.

The priest isn't to judge the deceased, he is gone to judgement already and to a place where only God decides. The preist should have kept his opinions to himself.

IMHO, the family shouldn't sue, but use the Church's "chain-of-command" and have the church give restitution.

My condolences to the family of the deceased.