Posted on 11/25/2005 5:48:28 PM PST by Rosary
What's the story on this anyone have a link on this?
Kneeling before idols and worshiping them is wrong. Praying before a statue of someone who actually lived and is now with God is not.
Particularly when you know that that person you are asking to pray FOR you is not divine, has never been divine and is not God.
Some people have trouble understanding the difference between honoring and worship. That's a sad thing.
Sadder yet is when they want to come around and impose their improper assumptions and faulty knowledge on other people, without even being asked.
Rosary, here's the latest I've found. It's from the CNA site:
Sacramento, Nov. 25, 2005 (CNA) - A statue of the Blessed Virgin Mary which seems to be crying tears of blood outside a Vietnamese Catholic Church in California has caused quite a stir.
Pilgrims and curious locals have been flocking by the hundreds to see the alleged miracle which has been taking place at Sacramento’s Catholic Martyrs Church.
The parish has asked the Diocese of Sacramento to step in and investigate the phenomenon which was discovered last Sunday by Ky Truong, who does maintenance at the church.
Parish officials say they each time they have tried to wipe the red liquid away, it inexplicably returns.
Sacramento resident Andre Nguyen told CBS channel 13 that "To me, personally, it is a miracle. You believe it or don't believe it, that's okay. But I strongly believe it."
The diocese has not yet commented on the situation.
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=5498
Ditto, ditto, ditto.
Sad.
There are those who will argue this, but that's partially because they've never been taught. There are some Catholic practices that specifically teach worship and reverence and what it means. Kneeling at the Consecration, Adoration, The Real Presence in the Taberbnacle - falling on one's knees before God, genuflecting, etc. It's more than just piety, but a form of teaching. When all that is missing, the message of what it means to worship and adore rather then just honor and venerate gets lost.
Like I said, I know I will get arguments on it, but I see it every day among some of my closest friends, both Catholic and protestant. They just don't understand reverence and the practices of Adoration, kneeling, etc., are not part of their lives.
These things are important. Churches that understand this thrive, those that don't turn into church Lite with shrinking populations dominated by those with weird agendas.
I have been a Catholic for all of my 31 years in this world, 11 years of catholic schooling and all and no Catholic with a shred of intellectual honesty will say that we do not pray to Mary.
Hail Mary full of grace the Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.
To say that this is not a "Prayer" is just dishonest. In fact, as I learn my bible more and more this is one of my major issues with the catholic religion.
Ignore the fact that we have Saints for everything from house sales to travel. What Catholic wants to tell me that all we are asking these "Chosen" few top do is relay our message to Christ. Read your bible, that IS NOT HOW IT WORKS.
While the Catholic Church is so right in so many ways, it like all HUMAN institutions, is also very wrong in others.
Why did you say this "Aw, poor little braindead Protestant" and demean that poster and then in the next post state that no one likes to be demeaned?
31 years of poor catechesis.
Not the same as a prayer which is straight to God.
But this could just be atics with semantics.
The Hail Mary comes from Scripture, both explicitly and implicitly.
It's interesting to note the polar opposites in beliefs possessed by most contemporary Protestants and unfortunately some Catholics, in comparison to those of Calvin, Luther, Zwingli, et al, regarding the Blessed Virgin Mary.
I saw Harry Blackstone do the same trick on the old Dean Martin show, years ago.
Or was it The Amazing Kreskin on the Tonight Show?
Even as an ex-Catholic, I have profound respect for the Church and her adherents.
I always bristle when I see attacks, especially ones against Mary, which non-Catholics (and I see some Catholics) don't understand.
**So clueless...**
Yes, yes, your lord majesty CTID, you are so high above lowly, little 'ol me. You look down with pious pity. :)
My tagline is a clue. One that your church does not follow to the "T". Especially the middle part: "....be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins...". "Remission" is a more powerful word than "forgiveness", IMO. Nevertheless, Peter demanded it. The apostles performed it throughout the book of Acts and referred to it several times in the epistles. And it is the ONLY way they taught remission of sins.
Maybe you need to hear the words of Stephen in Acts 7:51 and 53. Especially note his words "Who have received.....and have not kept it."
**Why did you say this "Aw, poor little braindead Protestant" and demean that poster and then in the next post state that no one likes to be demeaned?**
He said that because he has no class.
Full Court, you are probably aware that, when dealing with the RCC, that there are your rules and theirs. Take your screen name. In the scriptures, I believe you follow the written rules to the best you've been taught. They, on the other hand, have added rules. For example, they would maybe allow themselves free throws inside the freethrow line, twice as many fouls before fouling out, etc., while holding you to your written rules.
uh oh, wify says we are going to see the relatives, now!
be back later
Incorrect. How about those post baptismal sins? Nice try, though, at cherry picking Scripture.
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all iniquity. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." 1 John 1:8-10
By the way, how do you explain the repeated exhortations throughout Scripture for us to do penance?
Church of Christ was founded in part by a man who didn't believe in the trinity, by a presbyterian who rebelled against his church's teachings, and have a variety of variants who won't even talk to each other because they are damned because they don't either: use the same communion cup during communion, or let the elders of a congregation donate to charities, or use musical instruments in worship, or whether it's okay to have Sunday School and several other subgroups, not even discussing the difference between them and the Christian Church, them and the Disciples of Christ, them and the International Church of Christ.
And besides the fact that they claim to worship as the first Christians did without actually looking to see what the early church actually did, they can't keep themselves from splintering constantly because they cannot honestly have a difference of opinion about how to "rightly divide the word of God," because they lack any authority to deal with honest differences of opinion, and so use preacher networks who argue with each other constantly, sending out missives to each other, warning each other about how so and so has fallen from the straight and narrow, but in the end, since they are trying to use the new testament as a liturgical manual, which it is not created to be, they cannot keep from splitting over very small differences of opinion.
And this is the type of faith they want to urge Catholics, who have apostolic succession and continuity back to the first century, to have.
Yep, right.
You need to read the Catechism, the works of St. Augustine (who presided over the council that closed the canon of the bible), the church fathers before Augustine who fought against the great heresies (you figure out real quick that modern protestants don't have any original thoughts), Crocker's "Triumph" and, well, Canon Francis Ripley's "This is the Faith". The Bible stands as one of the three pillars - Scripture, the Magesterium and Tradition - that have all been equal in the Church since Pentecost. It should not be considered alone or interpreted by people who do not have the history of tradition at hand. It just shouldn't.
As far as praying to the Blessed Mother - it's more in terms of asking her to pray for us. But there is still no worship involved.
Chapter and verse please? El Cid already quoted Exodus 20:4-5 showing this practice to be in error. Just curious if I has missed some scripture that shows this to be O.K.
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