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VATICAN EXCOMMUNICATES CHINESE BISHOPS
Internet ^ | May 4, 2006 | CBS News

Posted on 08/12/2006 10:16:49 AM PDT by Blake#1

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To: Salvation

I am aware! I also am aware that the Archbishop of Cantebury is presently in China. Why would Cantebury be in China if not to speard God's Word? The World Anglican Communion is growing at a very fast rate. You can share God's Word and be a nationalists.


21 posted on 08/12/2006 11:39:04 AM PDT by Blake#1
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To: Blake#1
Are you sure that every Chinese Catholic Bishop believes in Communisn? What about all the Capitalist that now "operate" in China? Can't they, like the English, have a Nationalist Chruch?

To be sure if they are Communists or not, the Vatican must be in total control of their ordinations. We can not let some just slip through the cracks. As to your answer can't they be a Nationalist church like the English, in a word, NO.. not if they are going to claim to be Catholics in communion with the Pope.

22 posted on 08/12/2006 11:39:53 AM PDT by FJ290
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To: Salvation

Thanks for those links you put up, Salvation. Very informative for those who don't know the situation of the Church in China.


23 posted on 08/12/2006 11:41:18 AM PDT by FJ290
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To: FJ290

Here you bring up the age old argument. "Only the Vatican". We will never agree on that premise! Someday the entire Christian Church will unite, IMHO!


24 posted on 08/12/2006 11:45:52 AM PDT by Blake#1
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To: FJ290

You're welcome.


25 posted on 08/12/2006 11:49:06 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Blake#1
Here you bring up the age old argument. "Only the Vatican". We will never agree on that premise! Someday the entire Christian Church will unite, IMHO!

You're absolutely right I am bringing it up because these are suppose to be Catholics that are in communion with the Pope, not Communists who plot against the Church and the whole of Christianity!

26 posted on 08/12/2006 11:52:31 AM PDT by FJ290
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To: Blake#1

Blake, you seem to be rather confused about the history of your own sect. The Catholic Church always allowed the appointment of "nationalist" bishops and in fact often insisted on it. Even when Henry VIII was subtracting his obedience from Rome the Vatican allowed Cranmer to be made Archbishop of Canterbury despite the fact he had taken a wife (a German Lutheran named Margarete) -- all in the hopes of preserving communion for the English faithful.

Also, the PCA in China is not about a nationalist Church, but a communist dominated one. The ChiComs have been forcing episcopal appointments on the above ground church since 1959 while imprisoning every single underground bishop at one time or another and almost all underground Catholic priests as well at one time or another. Hundreds of these prelates and priests have disappeared forever. A number have turned up dead.

The Catholic Church had every right and reason to excommunicate these illicit bishops. Don't be surprised if much of this is for show, however, because it is known that some PCA bishops secretly long for full communion with the Church.

One day all Christians will be united. Where Protestant sectarians like you will be when that happens I have no idea.


27 posted on 08/12/2006 12:36:10 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: FJ290

I believe the issue is the Church itself is the one who appoints its own.


28 posted on 08/12/2006 12:38:31 PM PDT by marajade (Yes, I'm a SW freak!)
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To: marajade
I believe the issue is the Church itself is the one who appoints its own.

Your point?

29 posted on 08/12/2006 12:45:08 PM PDT by FJ290
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To: FJ290

I don't think its about Communism.


30 posted on 08/12/2006 12:47:15 PM PDT by marajade (Yes, I'm a SW freak!)
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To: Blake#1

If these bishops were appointed by the government, you can be sure that they were put in place to fulfill the will of the state, not the will of Christ. They are trying to have two Masters.


31 posted on 08/12/2006 12:49:15 PM PDT by Zack Nguyen
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To: marajade
I don't think its about Communism.

What do you think this means then?:

"The Vatican on Thursday excommunicated two bishops ordained by China's state-controlled church without the pope's consent...."

Exactly what controls the state in China? Communism.

32 posted on 08/12/2006 12:54:19 PM PDT by FJ290
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To: FJ290

I think its about who appointed them and that's why they don't recognize them.


33 posted on 08/12/2006 12:59:54 PM PDT by marajade (Yes, I'm a SW freak!)
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To: FJ290

ie Yugoslavia, Romania, Hungary, Cuba


34 posted on 08/12/2006 1:01:24 PM PDT by marajade (Yes, I'm a SW freak!)
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To: Blake#1

The Anglican Provence (sic) of Christ the King?

What's that?

One of the endless subdivisions (most with more clergy than laity) of the Church of England that has come about since your separation from the See of Peter?


35 posted on 08/12/2006 1:06:17 PM PDT by TaxachusettsMan
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To: marajade
ie Yugoslavia, Romania, Hungary, Cuba

Once again, Marajade, you can't be a Communist and be a Catholic Bishop. From the Catechism: "The Church has rejected the totalitarian and atheistic ideologies associated in modem times with "communism" or "socialism."

36 posted on 08/12/2006 1:21:23 PM PDT by FJ290
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To: nmh
Thankfully the Judeo Christian God doesn't excommunicate His followers. Some people have nerve ... .

You're quite correct.

We excommunicate ourselves. We do it by our actions. It's called sin.

The Church's declaration is simply a public service announcement to alert us to that fact and to wake us up to what we've just done.

37 posted on 08/12/2006 1:38:08 PM PDT by marshmallow
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To: FJ290

Again I state it has nothing to do with the fact that they were appointed by communist gov't it has to do with the fact that the Pope didn't appoint them.


38 posted on 08/12/2006 1:49:24 PM PDT by marajade (Yes, I'm a SW freak!)
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To: marshmallow
""We excommunicate ourselves. We do it by our actions. It's called sin. ""

This though is a situation of a fallible mortal "excommunicating" another sinner from the "church" which is the body of believers. Yes, sin separated us from Him however His death and resurrection permits and belief in Him allows any sinner to be part of the body. Luckily God doesn't excommunicate believers in Him regardless of what other sinners imagine their authority to be.

""The Church's declaration is simply a public service announcement to alert us to that fact and to wake us up to what we've just done.""

In this situation, a church leader, has excommunicated another sinner from the body for only wanting to preach the Bible, at least I hope that is what he was doing. You don't need the approval of another sinner to preach God's Word. This is just a power play by the Vatican to CONTROL others. What this person needs is God's approval not the Vatican. Any of those folks are just sinners like you and I who should be grateful for John 3:16.
39 posted on 08/12/2006 1:52:41 PM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God) .)
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To: FJ290

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2006/may/06052906.html

So this is false?


40 posted on 08/12/2006 1:54:54 PM PDT by marajade (Yes, I'm a SW freak!)
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